We need to change?

shel90

Audist are not welcome
Premium Member
Great post, Shel90. Very pragmatic. These children are still deaf and have a need to seek out others in their position and also having a second language reduces technological reliance.

It doesn't mean that you have to change your own personal viewpoint about whether it's right or wrong to implant a child. However, it means that after stating your view, you seek to educate and inform in a positive manner and offer suggestions for signing classes, how to improve self esteem etc.

I was looking at a UK parents of deaf children website last night and I was impressed by the number of parents of aided children who were keen to learn to sign and who were doing so. They could see the positives of learning to sign in addition to the oral speech therapy that their children were already receiving.

That's awesome!

However, getting information and confusion did seem to be a big problem i.e. some specialists say "go for it" whereas others will say "it will delay speech."

In my town there are two pediatric CI programs. One (well respected) is okay with the use of sign together with AVT whereas the other is not. So there is no across the board agreement in that area.
Well, that is good that at least one is ok with the use of sign..here, my work is trying to collaborate with John Hopkins CI center to relax about sign language. They are still very resistant but the reps from my work are stubborn. LOL!

Wouldnt it be great if the deaf community becomes more open and welcoming to parents of implanted children and the medical field or specialist (I hate to call them specialist cuz they dont really know much about deafness or issues about deafness..I think I am more of a specialist than they are! :giggle: ) accept and encourage exposure to sign language and the deaf community instead of saying that it will interfere with the chidlren's ability to learn to speak or listen? That would help the parents a LOT!
 

LMM

New Member
Shel
LMM wants to know exactly how many have really went in THEIR Community, To vist & chat w/ the Deaf Community. Not just here? Why she question ppl is because The Deaf Communitys across the world is total differnet then here. here you are not see listening to the Community. The Deaf Community does OPEN their arms & heart to ALL Deaf/deaf/hoh. That is the Leaders, Maybe the some ppl are leary of new ppl, because what has gone for years in our Communitys. The Deaf Community does unddy ppl get C.I.'s . & If someone ask "They are thinking of get a C.I." The Deaf will give then the background story about them." This you won't find on the net and/or books yet. Maybe in time you will, but at this time only the Deaf Community's do know the true story. No, its not the sickness you get during/after surgery. It's a huge history story!
Hmm How many Leaders at here? You might even be surprize they are here, But just here to read replys.

LMM, Have been here since Alex started this site. She has involved with over 200 Deaf Communitys. Has visted over 500 Deaf Community's. She keeps in touch w/ many of her Deaf friends.
PPl may gossip and/or talk about the Deaf Community, But untill they total vist. They will be in shock to know how truely the Deaf Community Leaders will help them w/ a Big heart! The Deaf Community love all their children, Not matter what! Children are the next Leader. To keep the Communitys going in High Proud!

LMM has connections alot of the Deaf Community. If she don't have a connection to a specfic one, All she needs to do is make phone calls.
LMM name is VERY well know in lots of Deaaf Community. Which that is super!
No it's not bad stuff about her, But how she helps lots! This is why, When some ppl have put her down. It was ALL deaf site lost.

Ok, I do hope this some how helps people understand what the true Deaf Community are some what like.
Have a great day all! :ty: for reading.




Lately, there has been a lot of arguments even some bashing by AD members, both Deaf and Hearing, in the threads about CIs against the parents. I know many of us dont agree with implanting children but the reality it is that they are not our children and we really have no say in the parents' decisions so why continue arguing about that? The parents will still continue to implant children whether we like it or not. I have been doing a lot of thinking and Cole's mom brought up a very good point...she said something like "We are not harming our children and many of us want to learn about Deaf culture and sign language but afraid to due to the hostility towards parents who have made the decision to implant children." I know it is not an exact quote but that was the message she conveyed. That is a good reason for many of us to change our attitudes to the parents..if they implant their children but still want to expose their children to deaf culture and sign language, then we shouldnt be hostile to them.

I have seen it in my personal life on how some people in the Deaf community are so quick to judge anyone who gets an implant or implant their chidlren. I used to be like that myself and I realize it is not doing anyone any good.

I think we all need to let the parents be about implanting their children and be more supportive in welcoming them to the Deaf community. We can start out by not saying anything about their decisions to implant their children UNLESS they ask. I think it is very important if we want them to expose their children to deaf people and sign language otherwise we would probably scare many of them away and we will be the ones hurting their children by acting that way to them.

I can understand that if some parents have the oral attitude and if they say their deaf child doesnt need the deaf community nor doesnt need sign language, that can be hurtful to us.

I know I have been harsh sometimes but that doesnt mean I want to ban all parents of CI children from this forum or from the deaf community. I will try my best not to be harsh and be as informative and encouraging as I can be.


To the parents..
Understand this..that most people in the deaf community value sign language and Deaf culture and each other even though not all of us are friends so if anyone implies that we are inferiror or devalues what we value, expect people to react strongly.

Anyways, what do u think? Do u think we need to change this hostile attitude to anyone who wants to learn about Deaf culture and sign language?
 

shel90

Audist are not welcome
Premium Member
Shel
LMM wants to know exactly how many have really went in THEIR Community, To vist & chat w/ the Deaf Community. Not just here? Why she question ppl is because The Deaf Communitys across the world is total differnet then here. here you are not see listening to the Community. The Deaf Community does OPEN their arms & heart to ALL Deaf/deaf/hoh. That is the Leaders, Maybe the some ppl are leary of new ppl, because what has gone for years in our Communitys. The Deaf Community does unddy ppl get C.I.'s . & If someone ask "They are thinking of get a C.I." The Deaf will give then the background story about them." This you won't find on the net and/or books yet. Maybe in time you will, but at this time only the Deaf Community's do know the true story. No, its not the sickness you get during/after surgery. It's a huge history story!
Hmm How many Leaders at here? You might even be surprize they are here, But just here to read replys.



LMM, Have been here since Alex started this site. She has involved with over 200 Deaf Communitys. Has visted over 500 Deaf Community's. She keeps in touch w/ many of her Deaf friends.
PPl may gossip and/or talk about the Deaf Community, But untill they total vist. They will be in shock to know how truely the Deaf Community Leaders will help them w/ a Big heart! The Deaf Community love all their children, Not matter what! Children are the next Leader. To keep the Communitys going in High Proud!

LMM has connections alot of the Deaf Community. If she don't have a connection to a specfic one, All she needs to do is make phone calls.
LMM name is VERY well know in lots of Deaaf Community. Which that is super!
No it's not bad stuff about her, But how she helps lots! This is why, When some ppl have put her down. It was ALL deaf site lost.

Ok, I do hope this some how helps people understand what the true Deaf Community are some what like.
Have a great day all! :ty: for reading.
:gpost:

I agree that the deaf community out there mostly welcoming except for a few people but they dont represent the whole community.
 

shel90

Audist are not welcome
Premium Member
:confused: what do you mean the difference between..."d""c" and "D""C" :confused:
Deaf community are those who are culturally Deaf and ASL is their primary source of language

deaf community represent all deaf people whether culturally Deaf or not..

Pls correct me if I am wrong. I never really think in those terms when talking about deaf people or the community.
 

Liebling:-)))

Sussi *7.7.86 - 18.6.09*
Premium Member
Deaf community are those who are culturally Deaf and ASL is their primary source of language

deaf community represent all deaf people whether culturally Deaf or not..

Pls correct me if I am wrong. I never really think in those terms when talking about deaf people or the community.
Oh I see...

I cannot correct you either you are wrong or not because I has no idea about this until I learn from you here for a first time... wow

*Double Check*

"deaf community" mean is neutral...

"Deaf Community" mean is Deaf Pride...

Please correct if I am wrong...
 

shel90

Audist are not welcome
Premium Member
Oh I see...

I cannot correct you either you are wrong or not because I has no idea about this until I learn from you here for a first time... wow

*Double Check*

"deaf community" mean is neutral...

"Deaf Community" mean is Deaf Pride...

Please correct if I am wrong...
I guess so..I didnt grow up Culturally Deaf so I am just using what I learned from my deaf friends. It doesnt really matter to me..everyone is different.
 

Liebling:-)))

Sussi *7.7.86 - 18.6.09*
Premium Member
I guess so..I didnt grow up Culturally Deaf so I am just using what I learned from my deaf friends. It doesnt really matter to me..everyone is different.
Oh yeah, here in Germany don't do like that. *shrug*

I remember someone mentioned in other threads that "I am Deaf" instead of I am deaf... It's just thought... *shrug*.
 

Cole's mom

New Member
What make you decide to put CI on your deaf children?

Because we wanted the best opportunity for him to learn spoken language. He has 18 cousins, extended family and our friends that love him, want to be part of his life and are all hearing.

Are you regard that your child has problem with headache, ear infection, painful, suffer, and withdrawal from the deaf community? Were you feel guilty about this child?

Guilt for our child being deaf? Absolutely not! I hope that he does not withdraw from the Deaf community because of his implant

Who was this invest in CI?

Our health insurance company paid for the surgery (I think that is what you are asking)

How long were you thinking and consult with Prediatric Doctor for CI processing surgery on your deaf children?

We thought about and talked to other parents in situations like ours for about 5 months before surgery.

Why do not you learn ASL or BSL sign language to communication with your deaf child?

We are, and it is still his main form of communication. However, imagine this, that you have a deaf child who was blind and you didn't know for 12 months of his life that he wasn't getting language from signing. Someone offered you surgery to correct it so he could see sign quickly, or you, as a parent (keep in mind I don't know you or your background, just a hypothetical here) had to learn a whole new language so quickly to make up for the lost ground that he had the 1st 12 months.

Which you choice drill through on little head with big scar on little ear? Why not you learn sign language instead of your children's surgery on their heads?

See above, but yes the decision was extremely difficult and NOT taken lightly.

Were you ashame to approach of your deaf children to the community?

No way! like I said before, we have a huge family, and go to a wonderful church. We now are around these same people, and I use my choppy signs with him, and they are all so supportive.


When your child become teenager or adult, they want to particular deaf community, Will you be upset about their wishes?


No, this is exactly why we are using both for our son. We want to provide with him the best of both options, and when old enough, I hope that he feels stong enough in his identity to choose whichever is best for him. And we will be behind him all the way.
 

shel90

Audist are not welcome
Premium Member
What make you decide to put CI on your deaf children?

Because we wanted the best opportunity for him to learn spoken language. He has 18 cousins, extended family and our friends that love him, want to be part of his life and are all hearing.

Are you regard that your child has problem with headache, ear infection, painful, suffer, and withdrawal from the deaf community? Were you feel guilty about this child?

Guilt for our child being deaf? Absolutely not! I hope that he does not withdraw from the Deaf community because of his implant

Who was this invest in CI?

Our health insurance company paid for the surgery (I think that is what you are asking)

How long were you thinking and consult with Prediatric Doctor for CI processing surgery on your deaf children?

We thought about and talked to other parents in situations like ours for about 5 months before surgery.

Why do not you learn ASL or BSL sign language to communication with your deaf child?

We are, and it is still his main form of communication. However, imagine this, that you have a deaf child who was blind and you didn't know for 12 months of his life that he wasn't getting language from signing. Someone offered you surgery to correct it so he could see sign quickly, or you, as a parent (keep in mind I don't know you or your background, just a hypothetical here) had to learn a whole new language so quickly to make up for the lost ground that he had the 1st 12 months.

Which you choice drill through on little head with big scar on little ear? Why not you learn sign language instead of your children's surgery on their heads?

See above, but yes the decision was extremely difficult and NOT taken lightly.

Were you ashame to approach of your deaf children to the community?

No way! like I said before, we have a huge family, and go to a wonderful church. We now are around these same people, and I use my choppy signs with him, and they are all so supportive.


When your child become teenager or adult, they want to particular deaf community, Will you be upset about their wishes?


No, this is exactly why we are using both for our son. We want to provide with him the best of both options, and when old enough, I hope that he feels stong enough in his identity to choose whichever is best for him. And we will be behind him all the way.
:gpost:
 

Cole's mom

New Member
Another quick thought. I think that these discussions are excellent for all parties. To know that some of you were extremely hurt by decisions made for you as a child is helpful for us current parents to keep in mind. However, in my opinion, it is not realistic for you put what your ideal childhood expectations on us to make up for what you have suffered. I think that this discussion has increased my compassion, and not in a "feeling sorry for" kind of way, but just as to what my kid may be facing in the future.

I went to a D/HH panel discussion last night on education, and while talking with parents, you do see a lot of what you are probably frustrated with, and it seems like some of these kids are struggling with learning. Even now, I am more convinced to use many different kinds of learning styles with my son to give him the best opportunities.

And, I would definetly say that there are parents out there who would deny that their child really is deaf, and that is hard for even me to see. I don't know what you do about that.
 

shel90

Audist are not welcome
Premium Member
Another quick thought. I think that these discussions are excellent for all parties. To know that some of you were extremely hurt by decisions made for you as a child is helpful for us current parents to keep in mind. However, in my opinion, it is not realistic for you put what your ideal childhood expectations on us to make up for what you have suffered. I think that this discussion has increased my compassion, and not in a "feeling sorry for" kind of way, but just as to what my kid may be facing in the future.

I went to a D/HH panel discussion last night on education, and while talking with parents, you do see a lot of what you are probably frustrated with, and it seems like some of these kids are struggling with learning. Even now, I am more convinced to use many different kinds of learning styles with my son to give him the best opportunities.



And, I would definetly say that there are parents out there who would deny that their child really is deaf, and that is hard for even me to see. I don't know what you do about that.
Can u elaborate more about the D/HH panel discussion? I am curious to what was said. If u cant or dont want to, then I can understand.



Nothing we can do but to vent to each other about the parents who deny that their children are deaf. It happens at the deaf schools too with the parents of the deaf children.
 

flip

New Member
To the parents..
Understand this..that most people in the deaf community value sign language and Deaf culture and each other even though not all of us are friends so if anyone implies that we are inferiror or devalues what we value, expect people to react strongly.

Anyways, what do u think? Do u think we need to change this hostile attitude to anyone who wants to learn about Deaf culture and sign language?
I admire this kind of attitude you are showing here, and this is really what can get us moving in a positive direction.

But parents have no right to call us hostile, just because some of us think that CI is overhyped and a crappy piece of technology. I see some of them are trying to trick people here with cheap sematics by claiming it's about choices we force them to do, while it not is.

For example, if I want to buy a car, and a friend tell me he think that car is crappy because of this and that, he is not putting me down, just telling me his thoughts based on experiences/facts. But I go for the car, and we are still friends.

If I tell someone that I think CI not is so very good, I have all the right to do so without beeing accused for forcing parents to not make some specific choices. That's insane, and no one should be triced into belive those parents, like Kayla123 when they claim it's about choices. We can fight, we can strongly disagree, but we cannot ask someone to shut up just because they disagree. That would hurt as much as a hostile attitude. Deaf people have the right to be strong, and if they want, gentle, and that means that we will allways have people like Kayla123 and Rick48 around, that whines and goes into a strange state of blaming and denial everytime they meet someone that disagree with them.

Many parents needs a deaf society that belives in themselves and have the self condifidence to take care of their kids when they get older. Even if we disagree within the deaf society, it is necessary to let all perspectives, both from personal experience and dry science, flow to remain in a strong state.

Shel, don't give up or change just because one or two hostile parents here, though I allways respect a change in perspective, and your perspective is allways much appreciated.

Enough preaching!
 

shel90

Audist are not welcome
Premium Member
I admire this kind of attitude you are showing here, and this is really what can get us moving in a positive direction.

But parents have no right to call us hostile, just because some of us think that CI is overhyped and a crappy piece of technology. I see some of them are trying to trick people here with cheap sematics by claiming it's about choices we force them to do, while it not is.

For example, if I want to buy a car, and a friend tell me he think that car is crappy because of this and that, he is not putting me down, just telling me his thoughts based on experiences/facts. But I go for the car, and we are still friends.

If I tell someone that I think CI not is so very good, I have all the right to do so without beeing accused for forcing parents to not make some specific choices. That's insane, and no one should be triced into belive those parents, like Kayla123 when they claim it's about choices. We can fight, we can strongly disagree, but we cannot ask someone to shut up just because they disagree. That would hurt as much as a hostile attitude. Deaf people have the right to be strong, and if they want, gentle, and that means that we will allways have people like Kayla123 and Rick48 around, that whines and goes into a strange state of blaming and denial everytime they meet someone that disagree with them.

Many parents needs a deaf society that belives in themselves and have the self condifidence to take care of their kids when they get older. Even if we disagree within the deaf society, it is necessary to let all perspectives, both from personal experience and dry science, flow to remain in a strong state.

Shel, don't give up or change just because one or two hostile parents here, though I allways respect a change in perspective, and your perspective is allways much appreciated.

Enough preaching!
:ty: :ty: :ty:

yes, I agree with u. That's why I put that note to the parents..if they do what u just described then expect a strong reaction. Will get what they asked for, right?
 

LMM

New Member
Cole Mom,
When your child become teenager or adult, they want to particular deaf community, Will you be upset about their wishes?

No, this is exactly why we are using both for our son. We want to provide with him the best of both options, and when old enough, I hope that he feels stong enough in his identity to choose whichever is best for him. And we will be behind him all the way.


You are doing the right thing for your son.. If he desides to become actived in our Deaf Community, They will support him & his family... They are not the same as the deaf communitys on the net and /or some churchs.. What LMM means by some churchs. Inless the church is total a Deaf church, Then the church may only have a few deaf/hoh ppl.A Total Deaf Church ,Is one that has all Deaf members. Even if you are only hoh and/or have C.I. (and /or family) of the deaf by medical, But belong to the Deaf Community.Then its a Deaf Church, With voice terps for some sevice, But only the Deaf have a private service that ppl not w/ the Deaf Community can go to.

Deaf Community does mean Culture.. Which is not on the internet, U have to be involved in your Communitys Deaf Community be be part of one. Even if you have to drive to the closes one to your city, If your city don't have one.
Just because you have a friend that go to a Deaf Community and you don't. Don't mean you belong to a deaf Community. Did I make that understandable?
Smile

Yes this board should have some changes. Culture Deaf could help out so many answers. How many Deaf Culture does AD have? Not many.
Yes maybe some will say their "Deaf Culture", But in truth their answers about the Deaf Culture is untrue.I'm not putting any down,But I have indeed see these reply's from so call Culture Deaf. Question LMM and/or ppl from the Deaf. I found out they were total wrong. LMM would give the correct answer's. PPL would jump down her hands. telling her she's Wrong. This why she got fed up ! She said " If they want the wrong answer's and play their games . Then I won't help them. They will be laught at in the Deaf Community if they go."
Is this how people want to be? This makes it hard on the people who do come here for help! So yes, This board indeed need a CHANGE !
Smile have a nice day.
 

jillio

New Member
This is a great thread, shel. There needs to be some give on both sides. Most deaf children are born to hearing parents, and since the CI has become so widely available, it only stands to reason that many people who come to the Deaf Community will have been implanted as children. It's a change that is inevitable.

It has not been my experience that the Deaf community is rejecting of those kids who have been implanted. I am personally aquainted with several CI users, some of whom attended my son's deaf school, some of whom are college students I now work with, some just in the community. All are active within the Deaf community, and all are accepted as simply deaf with a CI. Of course, these are also CI users who fully accept that they are deaf, they sign, and they embrace their Deaf culture and social life. They suffer no delusions that the CI has made them more hearing, nor do they feel superior in any way to those members of the Deaf Community who have chosen not to have a CI. Unfortunately, I believe the mistaken impression that an individual will be rejected simply because they have a CI is faulty information that is filtered through the hearing community. It simply isn't reality.

What WILL cause rejection from the Deaf community is a bad attitude toward deafness, a patronizing attitude toward deaf people, and an ethnocentric and imperialistic attitude toward ASL. I have often heard hearing people complain that they have not been accepted by the Deaf community despite their attempts to become involved, but when you question these people, it is not the fact that they are hearing that caused the problem in interaction, but the attitude toward deafness and Deaf people that was portrayed. For my own experience, I have never had a problem with acceptance into the community, even though I am hearing. My hearing has never been an issue.
In fact, I will go so far as to say that I have had the experience of being more fully accepted than a few deaf people I know, simply because of the difference in our attitudes. Hearing status has nothing to do with it.

Please, please, never give up your struggle to get others to understand the true issues. Deaf children of the future need people like you. And after all, we endure the insults and the misunderstandings simply because we feel it is the important thing to do for the kid's sake. Right? And trust me, there are still the kids out there that need educators like you, and those who care enough to advocate for their rights and their well being. They will thank you someday.
 

Cole's mom

New Member
Shel,

The panel was interesting, the main point was literacy and how to not let our kids fall behind, IEP's and working the system. There were 6 people on the panel, a hearing preschool teacher for d/hh in a public system, an itinerant teacher, a district director of a d/hh program in a public system, a state level director, a mom of a deaf student, and a deaf high school teacher of d/hh students. Most of it was way beyond preschool, and most of the parents there had implanted kids. A lot of it was how to find out about what your district does, who to push to get services for your child, etc. There was only an hours time, so it was rushed with just an overview. What I will take away from it was the deaf teacher signing "Read, Read, Read!" to your kids, sign or spoken, oral, SEE, ASL, cued speech, whatever, just get language to your child. All the time, language to your child.

I am really looking forward to visting the ASL program on Friday, Rocky Mountain Deaf School. I will let you know my impressions.
 
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