Tim become Kim at the age of 14!!

[Liebling:-)))]

Having surgery for changing sex is NOT a normal 5-year-old desire. Who told the child that there was such a thing as sex change surgery? Who told the child that sex change surgery was something he could get that would make him happy? Who told the 5-year-old child that he could someday get sex change surgery? Who told the child that the surgery cost a lot of money?

You see, there had to be some adult influence there. Five-year-olds don't just "know" these things without some adult input.

I can see that you tried to negative and blame them for that... I can see that you don't want your children to know everything... and deny their questions...

I did suggested in my previous posts ... now I suggest again here...

As the article written that Tim insisted he is a girl when he was a toddler.

I beleive that the parents convince him that he is a boy, not girl. He ignored his parents and use his sister's toys and clothes etc.

The toddlers begin to learn about saving money etc... I beleive that Tim tell his parents that he want to be girl and don't like his body... his parents tell him that he is a boy, not girl... Tim refused and want to be girl and want to change from boy to girl when he grow up... The parents explained him that it's very expensive surgery to change from boy into girl... That's how he answered his parent... That's what I beleive because I have seen in my experiences that many children talk like that... Example: Prince William is angry with his Nanny when he was 4 years old that he will send knights to kill her when he grow big. My son tell me that he want to save up to buy a big car for us...

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Of course that's not normal.

Why do young children need to know about all kinds of sex behaviors? What's the purpose or benefit? Why do they need those seeds planted in their young minds? What's the hurry?

Are you saying that I would have enjoyed my childhood more if I knew about homosexuals, transexuals, and transgenders when I was a little kid?

Teaching the basic facts of life and personal safety is one thing. Describing the details or listing every possible variety is NOT necessary.

I see nothing wrong when the children make their first move to ask their parents questions to answer after saw something... They deserve to know... I see nothing wrong to answer their questions. I don't beleive in hide something and make up the stories or negative answers if my boys want to know after saw something. My boys get answer from me, not from someone else.

The young children like to be curious and ask a lot of questions... they deserve parent's answer... to explain/convince them the examples....

I always positive my boys's questions and don't beleive to negative/make up their questions about homosexuals, transexuals, disabilities, color skin etc... because I want my children open their mind and show their respect on them instead of bully/mock/giggle on them... If you hide something from your children because you know something what you see is not normal then your children will learn negative from someone else because you never told them or positive their questions. I want to save from my boys's negative toward people...

 

[Reba]

... I can see that you don't want your children to know everything... and deny their questions...

I didn't "deny their questions." They never asked any questions about sex change.

As the article written that Tim insisted he is a girl when he was a toddler.

Yes, but did anyone research to find out why? What was the cause? Was it hormonal influence, societal influence, parental influence, or what?

I beleive that the parents convince him that he is a boy, not girl. He ignored his parents and use his sister's toys and clothes etc.

You mean to tell me that the parents were so weak that they couldn't tell a little kid, "No, you can't wear your sister's clothes"?

... The parents explained him that it's very expensive surgery to change from boy into girl...

That is totally bizarre. Money was the only reason parents gave for not getting a sex change for their kid? That is so weird.

... I have seen in my experiences that many children talk like that...

:jaw:

 

[Reba]

I see nothing wrong when the children make their first move to ask their parents questions to answer after saw something...

I agree that parents should answer children's questions.

My point is, as a child, I never had those questions. I didn't see or know about transexual people. As a kid, my mind wasn't full of questions about people's sexual behaviors. Now, there seems to be way too much focus on kids and sex.

They deserve to know... I see nothing wrong to answer their questions. I don't beleive in hide something and make up the stories or negative answers if my boys want to know after saw something. My boys get answer from me, not from someone else.

Answering their questions, that's fine. That's a lot different from exposing them to sexual situations at a young age.

 

[InTheGenes]

I agree that parents should answer children's questions.

My point is, as a child, I never had those questions. I didn't see or know about transexual people. As a kid, my mind wasn't full of questions about people's sexual behaviors. Now, there seems to be way too much focus on kids and sex.

I think the key here is exposure. You might not have had those kinds of questions growing up as a child, Reba... but some children do, and usually because they have exposure to someone who is gay or transgendered. My mother had gay friends when I was growing up, and I had questions as a 5 year old about why they weren't married (to someone of the opposite sex), and why two men were sleeping in the same bed in the guest room "like mommy and daddy do". Some parents, when asked those kinds of questions by their children, choose to be evasive. Some choose to lie, and some choose to tell the truth. My mother chose to tell us the truth, in a way that wasn't sexually provocative or inappropriate.

Answering their questions, that's fine. That's a lot different from exposing them to sexual situations at a young age.

Did you mean to use the words "sexual situations"? To me, that carries a very different connotation, like... putting them in a room where sex acts are being performed, or popping in a porno, and sitting them down in front of the TV set.

Allowing your kids to be in the same room as a gay person or a transgendered person wouldn't be a "sexual situation", in my book, unless explicit sex acts were part of the experience.

 

[Reba]

Did you mean to use the words "sexual situations"? To me, that carries a very different connotation, like... putting them in a room where sex acts are being performed, or popping in a porno, and sitting them down in front of the TV set.

That's one kind of situation. Kids are viewing too many scenes on TV of people acting and speaking in sexually suggestive ways.

Allowing your kids to be in the same room as a gay person or a transgendered person wouldn't be a "sexual situation", in my book, unless explicit sex acts were part of the experience.

Being in the same room as a gay or transgendered person, and being exposed to explicit sex acts by anyone, are the two extremes. There's a range of experiences in between.

Sitting at a dining table with a group of people, straight, gay, or transgendered, is not a sexual situation, unless people begin discussing sexual topics, or acting in sexually suggestive ways. Straight or gay, that's not appropriate with children present.

My point is, why do children need to know what's happening in anyone's bedrooms? If they do have a curiosity, and ask questions, then fine, answer them. But most of the time, kids can enjoy their young lives without concerning themselves about what's happening in the grown-ups' bedrooms. Of course, part of the problem is bedroom activity is becoming more public and media activity.

Why can't kids just be kids for 12-14 years? They will have another 50-70 years left to worry about sexual relationships and situations. Isn't that enough?

Just 12-14 short years to ride bikes, skate, sled, read adventure stories, play with kittens and puppies, go fishing, jump rope, build Legos creations, act silly, play in the mud, climb trees, skip and tumble, make snowmen and snow forts, bounce a ball, collect sea shells and dead bugs, or just rest in the grass and look up at the clouds.

Sigh....

 

[InTheGenes]

Why can't kids just be kids for 12-14 years? They will have another 50-70 years left to worry about sexual relationships and situations. Isn't that enough?

Just 12-14 short years to ride bikes, skate, sled, read adventure stories, play with kittens and puppies, go fishing, jump rope, build Legos creations, act silly, play in the mud, climb trees, skip and tumble, make snowmen and snow forts, bounce a ball, collect sea shells and dead bugs, or just rest in the grass and look up at the clouds.

Sigh....

Reba, I agree with you. It would be nice if kids these days held onto their innocence longer. I, too, have noticed a trend with today's youth, and how they seem to "grow up" (or are forced to) much faster than even when I was a child (I'm 33 now). You bring up how much sex they're exposed to in the media, etc... they see a LOT more on TV now (including non-sexual things, like war, violence, political scandal, etc.) than we ever did back when I was a kid. In this information age, kids have access to a lot of "adult topics" that just weren't readily available back in the day.

Most parents hate the idea of their children getting older/growing up, would love nothing more than for them to stay children forever. However, eventually, every child grows into an adult, much to their parents' dismay. I've also often found that the more parents try to KEEP their children from growing up, the more friction is caused between parent and child. But then, no one ever said being a parent was easy.

As for this particular topic, honestly, I'm conflicted. I think it's great that parents would allow their child to explore their own identity, and not perpetuate any negative stigmatization that might exist over a boy wanting to play with a doll, etc. However, I agree with you that I just don't see how a 5-year old would get it into their head to start saving for a sex change operation. It sounds rather far-fetched to me.

I guess the question that begs answering here is... at what age, do you think, a person KNOWS who they are? And even when that self-identification happens... that doesn't necessarily mean that one is ready to act on any impulses associated with that self-identity.

I mean... I can honestly say that I knew that I liked boys when I was 6 years old, and this was reinforced several times as the years wore on... but I wouldn't say that I was ready to act on any kind of sexual impulse at that young age. I DID start experimenting at age 12... but what we're talking about here isn't an experiment. Once the operation is performed, there's no going back. If this were my child, I'd advocate waiting a few more years, but also allow for my child to have complete freedom of expression.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

I didn't "deny their questions." They never asked any questions about sex change.

What if they ask you question then? Of course my children didn't ask me any questions about sex change since we didn't talk about this subject in household, why should they? All what they asked me simple question why they want to be woman or why love same man etc..., that's I gave them simple answer, that's all. If they asked me question like Kim, then I would give them honest answer. They also questioned me about comestic surgery, too... I let my boys watch TV "Show Talk" about Kim... It got them interesting and said to me that they love to be boys and can't image to be girl... No word to negative Kim... but just interesting...

Yes, but did anyone research to find out why? What was the cause? Was it hormonal influence, societal influence, parental influence, or what?

*sigh* you seem not want to understand. None, but Tim himself who is not happy with his body. It's him and his feeling, not us. I convince after read those links that it's him who consider to be girl. I would suggest you to search the google to find out that Tim is not only one who consider himself as girl.

You mean to tell me that the parents were so weak that they couldn't tell a little kid, "No, you can't wear your sister's clothes"?

Huh? You said this, not me.

That is totally bizarre. Money was the only reason parents gave for not getting a sex change for their kid? That is so weird.

The parents choose to tell their child the truth.

:jaw:

:jaw: I thought you know that the public talks, listen radios, TV, medias, newspapers, etc in the everywhere...? That's how the children learn from them... You can't compare our old times with present time.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

I think the key here is exposure. You might not have had those kinds of questions growing up as a child, Reba... but some children do, and usually because they have exposure to someone who is gay or transgendered. My mother had gay friends when I was growing up, and I had questions as a 5 year old about why they weren't married (to someone of the opposite sex), and why two men were sleeping in the same bed in the guest room "like mommy and daddy do". Some parents, when asked those kinds of questions by their children, choose to be evasive. Some choose to lie, and some choose to tell the truth. My mother chose to tell us the truth, in a way that wasn't sexually provocative or inappropriate.

Agreed. I don't have kind of questions like that in my old time but ask one question is "how make a baby", that's all. I didn't know anything about gay until I was a teenager. For the children who raise by gay parents or have gay friends know before us were being bullied/mock etc which is a terrible one... I know it's not children's fault but parents who never told them about gays, etc or negative them about gays etc. Unfortunlately my parents choose to tell me lie until I learn negative from peers. That's why I would not want my children expose like this and want to save them from negative other people... but positive their respect and open mind about the people...

TV about gays, etc (non-sexual) - just and kiss.... it got my children wondering and ask me question. Of course I positive their questions about gay, etc.

Did you mean to use the words "sexual situations"? To me, that carries a very different connotation, like... putting them in a room where sex acts are being performed, or popping in a porno, and sitting them down in front of the TV set.

Allowing your kids to be in the same room as a gay person or a transgendered person wouldn't be a "sexual situation", in my book, unless explicit sex acts were part of the experience.

Agreed

 

[Liebling:-)))]

That's one kind of situation. Kids are viewing too many scenes on TV of people acting and speaking in sexually suggestive ways.

It's not just TV but everywhere publicity like radio, TV, medias, newspaper, etc.

My point is, why do children need to know what's happening in anyone's bedrooms? If they do have a curiosity, and ask questions, then fine, answer them. But most of the time, kids can enjoy their young lives without concerning themselves about what's happening in the grown-ups' bedrooms. Of course, part of the problem is bedroom activity is becoming more public and media activity.

Unfortunlately yes... It's not the same as our old times... All what I has to accept the fact that the present time, we have is not same as our old times. All what we parents do is positive our children's question. That's so.

Why can't kids just be kids for 12-14 years? They will have another 50-70 years left to worry about sexual relationships and situations. Isn't that enough?

Well, we parents have to accept the fact of our children's development and help them to develop into young mature adult instead of keep them to grow up. The teenagers will act immaturity if the parents try to keep them from develop into young adult.

That's why I disagree to keep my boys as kids during their puberty time...

Just 12-14 short years to ride bikes, skate, sled, read adventure stories, play with kittens and puppies, go fishing, jump rope, build Legos creations, act silly, play in the mud, climb trees, skip and tumble, make snowmen and snow forts, bounce a ball, collect sea shells and dead bugs, or just rest in the grass and look up at the clouds.

Sigh....

I have seen many young children to teenagers including our boys's development still continue with this... ride the bicycles, skate, reading, scoocer, build legos, collect bugs from garden etc... I have no idea what you talk about...

I guess that what you talk about is let young children and teenagers stay front of computer all the day, right? Yes, I has to agree with you on this... We are strict about TV and computer limit. We don't like to see our boys stay front of the computer or watch on TV all the day. My hubby & I told our sons that we stay outside all the day in everyday when we were their ages, that's time there're no computer, game boy, etc. around. We push them to go out more often...

Anyway, it's parent's job to get their children out of watch TV and computer games...

 

[Reba]

What if they ask you question then?

I would answer them, of course.

... I let my boys watch TV "Show Talk" about Kim...

That wouldn't be my way but they're your kids.

*sigh* you seem not want to understand. None, but Tim himself who is not happy with his body. It's him and his feeling, not us.

There has to be a reason.

... I would suggest you to search the google to find out that Tim is not only one who consider himself as girl.

Why should I "google"? I've know about sexual reassignment treatments and surgeries for many years. The big difference with the Tim/Kim story is the age of the person going thru the process.

The parents choose to tell their child the truth.

A very selective "truth". Such a weird family.

I thought you know that the public talks, listen radios, TV, medias, newspapers, etc in the everywhere...? That's how the children learn from them....

Yes, I know about modern media. I used to work in that field. Duh! Just because it's available doesn't mean it's appropriate to allow children access to it. :roll:

 

[Fo'Shizzle]

At age 12? uggh........

 

[Liebling:-)))]

A very selective "truth". Such a weird family.

Anyone who choose to give their children honest answer or explain the honest examples in truthfully way for you is a werid. I remember your posts in my other threads that you don't like anyone who tell lies or make excuse... Here? I would not judge you as werid mother for choose to lie or make up the stories to your children. Why have you judge the parents as werid for choose to tell their children in honest way?

Yes, I know about modern media. I used to work in that field. Duh! Just because it's available doesn't mean it's appropriate to allow children access to it. :roll:

See? You know that we can't compare our old times with present times...

 

[Reba]

Anyone who choose to give their children honest answer or explain the honest examples in truthfully way for you is a werid.

That's not what I said. Some people go way beyond simple honest answers to kids' questions. That is weird.

... Here? I would not judge you as werid mother for choose to lie or make up the stories to your children...

That's good because I never lied or made up stories for my daughter or grandsons.

Why have you judge the parents as werid for choose to tell their children in honest way?

Because they are going way beyond simply answering their questions.

See? You know that we can't compare our old times with present times...

What does "old times" have to do with anything? I'm talking about today's children. There is no good reason to expose young children to sexually oriented movies, TV programs, music, books, web sites, etc.

 

[Steel X]

Omg!

dont get me wrong...i have nothing against gays and lesbians, but sex change?

thats a whole different story... :|

 

[Steel X]

There was a Law & Order: Special Victims Unit episode where there was a set of boy-girl twins that was actually a set of boy-boy twins.

oh yeah i remember that episode! althou SVU is my most favorite show ever

the doctor has screwed it up when he was circumizing one of the boys and his penis have...*cough* "chopped off" *cough* and told the parents that he should be trained to be like a girl but didnt work since one time the parents saw "her" kissing another girl so obviously, its the horomones of the male's body being attracted to the opposite sex. thats one big problem that they wouldnt ever get it fixed...or would they? cause I rather like girls, thank you very much!

 

[shel90]

That's one kind of situation. Kids are viewing too many scenes on TV of people acting and speaking in sexually suggestive ways.



Being in the same room as a gay or transgendered person, and being exposed to explicit sex acts by anyone, are the two extremes. There's a range of experiences in between.

Sitting at a dining table with a group of people, straight, gay, or transgendered, is not a sexual situation, unless people begin discussing sexual topics, or acting in sexually suggestive ways. Straight or gay, that's not appropriate with children present.

My point is, why do children need to know what's happening in anyone's bedrooms? If they do have a curiosity, and ask questions, then fine, answer them. But most of the time, kids can enjoy their young lives without concerning themselves about what's happening in the grown-ups' bedrooms. Of course, part of the problem is bedroom activity is becoming more public and media activity.

Why can't kids just be kids for 12-14 years? They will have another 50-70 years left to worry about sexual relationships and situations. Isn't that enough?

Just 12-14 short years to ride bikes, skate, sled, read adventure stories, play with kittens and puppies, go fishing, jump rope, build Legos creations, act silly, play in the mud, climb trees, skip and tumble, make snowmen and snow forts, bounce a ball, collect sea shells and dead bugs, or just rest in the grass and look up at the clouds.

Sigh....

Dont I know it! Childhood is SO short! We are adults in most of our lifetimes so let the children enjoy their childhood and innocence as much as they can. I know TVs and media tend to portray sexual info. All we can try is to make sure our children are not exposed to anything that would be considered too mature for them. I know that I try my best. So far my 9 year old daughter seems clueless. Then again, I could be wrong about her cuz kids hear things at school.

 

[Dark-Half]

I've always been against this mental "im a boy/girl trapped in a girl/boy's body!!!" It's bullshit. I've seen the theories on it, that your mind is mapped out at birth what gender you are and gets 'coded' wrong. It's completely ridiculous. I'm going to be against it till hell freezes over, but as for other people? They can do what they want. Do explictly note I have gay/lesbian/asexual friends so it has nothing to do with it, I just think it's a load of bullshit. A theory based on twisted data at best. Unless someone has data or information that people have felt like they've been trapped in oppositive sex's bodies since the dawn of man- before all this gay biz has been blown out of portion and all over the media, I refuse to believe it as a medical condition. I think it's more of a mental disorder that happens while the child is growing, the things they see and such can confuse them and give them obscure ideas like that they are born into the wrong sort of sex.

 

[Opal]

Thank you Liebling for providing lots of German links here.

 

[gnulinuxman]

I do think I'm a girl in a guy's body, but I don't want to change because I don't really feel trapped. Especially since my soulmate is a girl--and a tomboy. She likes the way I am, and I'm liking the way I am now. My last gender identity test said I was 91% feminine, which is higher than most girls score on it!

But growing up, I had gender identity problems because I felt like a girl in a boy's body.

Most of this, I think, comes from the fact that girls who act like boys are respected these days, while boys who are girlish are ridiculed and harassed (I know I was...) and they assume we're gay. (I'm asexual, and in love with a girl, not gay.)

Those are my thoughts on this. Oh, and that's why I have a nice girly avatar and siggy.