Thieves exploit phone system for the deaf

Miss-Delectable

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Thieves exploit phone system for the deaf - Lisa Myers & the NBC Investigative Unit - MSNBC.com

For Steve Walker and his wife, Krista, the advent of an Internet-based telephone system for the deaf was a godsend.

"It's allowed me to be more connected to my family at any time, day or night, anywhere," says Steve, who is deaf. "So it's been tremendous. It's been a blessing for me."

It's a system called IP Relay, and it allows Steve to go to one of a number of free Internet sites to type in a phone number and message. In real time, an operator reads the exact message to the person on the other end. The operator then types back the reply. He can also use his BlackBerry to make the same type of call.

About 22 million calls are expected to be placed this way this year, at a cost of $92.5 million. The IP Relay system is funded by little-noticed charges on our monthly phone bills, charges described in terms like "Disability Access Fee" or "Carrier Cost Recovery Fee."

But an NBC News investigation shows that this well-meaning service may now be helping the criminal community more than the deaf community because of serious flaws in the relay system.

For instance, operators are required to repeat any message — no matter how vile or obscene.

A few samples of actual calls:

*
Operator: "This is IP Relay Operator 7862 with a message: Kill all the Jews. Sieg Heil Hitler..."
*
Operator: "...that little boy comes to me in my sleep always telling me to make love to him."
*
Operator: "I want to lick your [expletive] and touch your [expletive]."

More significant, former AT&T and MCI operators Cathy Audia and Sheila Satterwhite say the system is being exploited by thieves.

"Eighty-five to 90 percent" of the calls Audia says she handled were scams. "The majority of them, very rarely did we get an actually hearing-impaired call," she says.

They say overseas thieves use stolen credit cards and the voices of relay operators to run up large orders from unsuspecting U.S. merchants who may let their guard down because they think they're helping a deaf person.

How much money do they think they helped steal from American businesses?

"Multi-millions," says Audia, "multi-millions."

"I felt like a criminal every day I left work," adds Satterwhite.

By law, every call has to be put through, no matter what the content is.

What if they get a call where someone's saying they're going to plant a dirty bomb in New York City? What can an operator do?

"Nothing," says Satterwhite. "Technically, we're not supposed to do anything except relay the call through."

Even if lives at are stake?

"Absolutely," she says.

"One time they said, 'Well, if you don't do what I told you to do, I'm going to come and kill your children,'" recalls Audia.

And she relayed that.

"To warn the FBI or the government or the police would be breaking the law," Audia adds.

And the U.S. government knows all about it. Records obtained by NBC News under the Freedom of Information Act document private meetings in Washington between representatives of the Federal Communication Commission (FCC) and the IP Relay companies that profit from the calls. The topic of those meetings was the ongoing abuse of the IP Relay system.

One internal phone company document filed with the FCC discusses operators’ working overtime to handle "a high volume of fraud calls."

Another internal phone company memo obtained separately by NBC is from an IP Relay call center operations director, who acknowledges operators' protests about being forced to make fraud calls.

"I have heard your complaints about having to handle the calls knowing they are ripping off hard working Americans. And I have listened to the calls. I have heard your frustration with not being able to tell someone ... anyone!" writes the director.

But he goes on to warn operators about publicly discussing the issue.

"Please do not risk your jobs and your own integrity. The scammers would be stealing more than just goods or money," he writes.

Not only are IP Relay operators prohibited from discussing the calls, but the relay companies themselves are also prohibited from keeping any records that identify callers or the content of conversations. The laws are intended to ensure the privacy of deaf people and comply with the the Americans with Disabilities Act.

The criminals using IP Relay are enjoying those same protections, operators say, and like not paying for expensive overseas calls.

The FCC declined NBC's request for an interview but said in a statement that it is "concerned about these reports," is reviewing the matter and "will make any necessary rule changes."
 
Wow...very interesting. I have always wondered what a relay operator can do if they get a call that discusses a crime being planned. They cant report it? That is CRAZY!!! I understand the protection of our rights but if there is criminal activity being discussed, those people lost their rights for privacy!
 
Nope, they can't report it. Why should they report it? What if you were using the phone and were talking to your doctor about having AIDS, should they go out and tell someone?

No, the principle with relay is that there is NO ONE between you and the person you talk to, there is just a magic translator that changes spoken words into sign language or words to read. That's it. Of course, the operators are still human, but wouldn't be fair to me that I can't make, say, a drug deal on the phone just like any other hearing person.
 
I agree, Unfortunately that's how it is with the privacy. Alot of people are using the VRS which has made it vulnerable for the IP Relay to be in the pool for other scammers to take advantage of it when they very well knew that the conversation is under the privacy rights act.

I know, It's crazy when lives are at stake and they (the operators) can't do anything about it. It'd be nice if they can do something about it but I am aware they just can't. Yet, You have to think - It is just like how they do one on one conversations and that is private, off the record as well.

Just when I get to wonder, When a fraud phone call is routed and recognized through the relay services, Can the relay operator be able to route that call to the FBI or a proper agency (I know it'd be against the law to do that) but somehow.... there has to be a loophole around this in order to save lives or to prevent some prospecting victims?
 
Yes it sad that relay are being abuse this way.

I believe there are way or system we could use and reduce the number of those fraud or criminal abusing the relay service and still keep out privacy but it will cost Goverment more money and people don't want to pay higher taxes.

Also companies that provide relay services really don't care what calls is being made as long the minutes are counting and ticking so they can bill the Goverment for minutes usage assisting deaf folks when they really knew it was mostly fraudolet or criminal calls.

Unless the companies get into the act, there really not much FCC can do and we can't expect the Goverment to do all the work or thinking a way to make it more secured for us the people.

FCC have so many agenda they have to deal with every day and I am sure relay service issues are wayyyyy bottom of thier list.


Bill
 
Just when I get to wonder, When a fraud phone call is routed and recognized through the relay services, Can the relay operator be able to route that call to the FBI or a proper agency (I know it'd be against the law to do that) but somehow.... there has to be a loophole around this in order to save lives or to prevent some prospecting victims?

What's the loophole for hearing people calling other hearing people? How does the FBI record hearing people's calls to "save lives and prevent victims?"

Most likely, the FBI can still do those things, i.e., wiretapping and recording with warrants.

I'm afraid that if relay calls were allowed to be forwarded to "the FBI" because a relay operator decided for themselves it was fraudulent or illegal, I bet a bunch of deaf users would get falsely flagged as terrorists. How many calls a day are from deaf users who are frustrated with the government or police? How many deaf people use relay to do phone sex chats? How many do drug deals? What if a relay operator is in a state where the age of consent is 18 but one person on the call is 16 and being solicited for sex?

Let the police do the policing and let the relay operators do the relaying. No thanks to letting the relay operator who is a republican try to report me to the police for voting democrat.
 
Yeah like I said there probably a system what would work but it gonna cost money and it mean higher taxes to everyone.

I could think system sort like if you want to use relay you have to apply online to have a sercet code mailed to your home address and then you enter the code before it will let you use relay service but the code is stored on your computer so you only enter one time and if any time a company get a fraudolet calls then they can go to the police or FBI or whatever then the police can deal with it by asking relay company what home address placed the fraudolet call but no converation records/logs are kept or no person name records/logs just an serect code that is link to an home address then the police will have to get a warrant then find the guilty party and prove it to the court the same way they do to hearing people with caller id records.

That would keep our privacy and make fraud people think twice apply for a sercet code to be mailed to thier home to use relay service online and abuse it.

When you apply online you do not leave your name or your information about yourself, you just only enter your home address that all. And code is good forever.

That my theory to reduce abuses on relay services but that mean Goverment have to spend money on system and money on hiring more worker to maintain system making sure privcay is kept and not abused by workers etc .. Just cost more money and FCC don't want to spend more money on us deaf commuity,

I am sure there many other way or system to help reduce abuse on relay services but deaf community need to voice out and get Goverment to do it spend money on our assistance living.

I am worried that one day FCC will become filled up with relay abuses that they will announce there no way to protect abuse they will have to have Law Marshal sit with relay worker everyday reading our coverastions and decide if they should be invegeated or not like Law Marshal undercover hiding in airline planes everyday watching for suspected terroriots. That will voilate our privacy big time but FCC will claim there no other choices!


Bill
 
One of my ASL students told me about this. I was steamed about this.:mad2:
 
What's the loophole for hearing people calling other hearing people? How does the FBI record hearing people's calls to "save lives and prevent victims?"

Most likely, the FBI can still do those things, i.e., wiretapping and recording with warrants.

I'm afraid that if relay calls were allowed to be forwarded to "the FBI" because a relay operator decided for themselves it was fraudulent or illegal, I bet a bunch of deaf users would get falsely flagged as terrorists. How many calls a day are from deaf users who are frustrated with the government or police? How many deaf people use relay to do phone sex chats? How many do drug deals? What if a relay operator is in a state where the age of consent is 18 but one person on the call is 16 and being solicited for sex?

Let the police do the policing and let the relay operators do the relaying. No thanks to letting the relay operator who is a republican try to report me to the police for voting democrat.


As a relay operator, I can guarantee that for the majority of the time, we can absolutely tell if a call is from a scammer, rather than just a deaf person wanting to order something, which of course, is because we deal with repeat offenders whose calls follow a pattern. As for legitimate callers making calls about drug deals, sex work, theft or phone sex, we DO NOT want to prevent these calls from being made because we do respect privacy. The reason you can scam from a relay service though, and not a normal telephone is that if a hearing person phones a jewelry store, swindles them for 10 diamond rings, and then succeeds in ripping off, the store can go through the phone records and find out what number they called from, whereas in relay they can't. That's why scammers are so attracted to relay- because not only do the calls maintain the normal privacy of a regular phone, but they are also untraceable above and beyond the phone.

I understand the need for privacy and freedom of speech; if my deaf callers are unreasonable, belligerent to government agencies, or commit illegal acts- I am obliged to fully support their right to do that- I do think the alarms being raised here are worth dealing with because the scammers are giving the deaf community a bad name by exploiting their services, and I'd like to be able to relay calls for my legitimate callers to businesses, without having people hang up on them for fear that they're going to commit fraud.

If anyone here can prove to me that there is a deaf community in Nigeria numbering in the thousands and thousands, who all incidentally enjoy making bulk orders of expensive goods to be shipped to Lagos, and all incidentally have stolen credit cards, I will stand corrected.

And to those deaf people who do make phone sex calls, telephone escort agencies and make angry calls to people who piss them off; ALL THE POWER TO YOU! Nothing makes me happier than knowing a real caller feels safe and confident making such a call with my assistance...
 
No I will never abuse the relay service, to be honest... (sigh)
 
All the more reason for video relay services, I am fairly sure that hearing scam artists will not take take the time to learn ASL.

:pissed:
 
nigerians have been using relay to scam people for years. they probably have UR credit card info and personal acct info and are just going through their list until they get to u. if the gd'in deaf society would just use passwords and user id's like they do in AU then there wouldnt be near as much of a plm!
 
All the more reason for video relay services, I am fairly sure that hearing scam artists will not take take the time to learn ASL.

:pissed:

You have to be kidding! Society is going back to TTY use. Dont believe me? That's fine by me because I could be the only one cashing in on the TTY comeback.

Richard
 
You have to be kidding! Society is going back to TTY use. Dont believe me? That's fine by me because I could be the only one cashing in on the TTY comeback.

Richard

I don't believe there'll ever be a TTY comeback.
 
Privacy concerns

I am reading that most of you are concerned with relay operators thinking your calls are fraud. Well I can definately tell you we know deaf calls from scam calls. Just like the other operator said. We deal with so many and all of them are so scripted that usually within the first 2 minutes of being on the call we know.

I won't go into the long drawn out process of how we know... but for us it's like the equivalent of listening to someone and telling if they are full or crap or not.

I'll give you a quick example of one way we know right off if it's a scam

ex: "Hi this is rev [whatever] and I need 5 2 seater hot tubs for an orphanage"

Really? I mean does this sound like a real deaf call? No.. it's crazy crap like that that set's off alarm bells.

Sex calls, Drug calls, Rant calls.. All for it.. I"ll even make it sound like I like it on the sex calls.. but I mean.. really we know what's real and what's not.. just like you guys can probably look at someone face when talking or signing and know if they are lying or not.

How could we fix it... I think it would be easy to just not accept international IP addresses. If there is a large amount of Deaf is a foreign country I'm sure they have there own relay system and they can purchase phone cards just like we have to and use them. Sounds fair to me.
 
hell... i know if its a scam call pretty much as the number is dialing. if not then, when the voice user answers the line i'll definitely be able to tell.

and as for voicing... oh yea... i am king. if im in the mood, i will sound like a game show announcer and everyone will enjoy a good laugh. the voice user, as well as all other people around me. its one of teh only thing that gives me any pleasure at work while dealing with hundreds, literally hundreds, of nigerian scam calls. there is actually a nigerian on this board. i've already found him and called him out. stupid bastards. it may sound sadistic... but i was watching law and order the other night and it has a little boy that was sacrificed in central park. i was kinda like "awww" since it was a kid, then they made it to where i did not feel bad for the child, but rather glad that he had been taken from this eart.... he was a NIGERIAN :rl: and i despise all of them now. i dont care that some are nice and hard working citizens... guilt by association!
 
Privacy

When it comes to privacy, that is nothing to worry about. I hear so many personal phone calls, check so many bank accounts, am in the middle of so many family squabbles it all becomes a blur. Every relay opr taking a legit phone call is not worried about what is being said. We here thousands of conversations all day every day, even if we could care about your personal information, we would have no way of remembering it within five minutes of the call, there are too many to keep track of. The only reason that we know about the fraud calls so well is because it outrages us so much every time that one drops into our computer. By the way, these people have no clue as to how to really use relay, that is one of the easiest ways to identify them. They do not use ASL, they do not wait for the GA and most of the time they are ignoring what the other poster is saying. I 'll give you a typical example:

Business: Hello Glass Company GA
Scammer: Hello this is Rev Smith QQ GA Do you sell Glass QQ GA
Business: Yes we sell glass what type of glass are you looking for qq ga
Scammer: Hello this is Rev Smith QQ GA Do you sell Glass QQ GA
Business: Yes we do what is it that you want qq GA
Scammer: OK GA
Business : How is it that I can help you qq GA
Scammer : Yes GA
Business: Is there something that I can help you with qq GA
Scammer : Yes I want to order QQ GA
Business: What do you mean qq GA
Scammer: Do you have email qq Please email me the prices of all the glass that you have in stock so that we can go from there QQ GA
Business: Well, exactly what do you want to order qq GA
Scammer : Yes GA
Business: I don't know what you mean qq ga
Scammer : Send me email address are u ready qq GA
This is NOT an actual conversation that I am posting here. Ask any relay opr, it happens so much that it I can almost tell you how each one of these calls is going to go . Now, I am sure that every deaf user, from the example above, should be able to see that no legit deaf person is going to call a business and post like this. But, as operators, we see thouands of calls every day like this. So, no, we are not interested interfering with the privacy of our callers, we are only interested in Crap like what is mentioned above. If anyone thinks that I am exaggerating, all they need to do is ask any relay opr.
 
operators do NOT care about stealing a deaf persons info. no offense, but there are people out there with more money and better credit. and u know who has all that info? nigerians. if we wanted info to use for fraud purposes we would simply find a way to obtain the info the nigerians have. and this is not saying that every deaf person has horrible credit and no money in the bank, but there have been situations that involved calling a bank and multiple debt collectors and the text user was overdrawn, owed tons and tons of overdraft fees, etc. from a financial standpoint... it is just not worth it to risk losing ur job for a federal offense to try and scam someone out of money. plus, when the nigerians scam people, they dont have to worry about someone coming to pick them up from their home... because they live in small dirt holes like saddam housien (sp?) and dont own computers of their own. they go into a little pay-per-minute cyber cafe. go search you tube and u can see them getting busted. work makes me ramble:pissed:
 
hey escape from new york... (plissken) here is another example
here is a typical fraud call:
(420) 123-4567 q ga
THK U IP RELAY OPR 666 DIALING 420 213 4567 PLS HD
RING 1 2
Business: thk u for calling auto zone how may i help u qq ga
Scammer: hello ga
Business: auto zone how can i help u qq ga
Scammer: i will like to inquire an order ga
Business: ok qq what are u looking for qq (sounds confused) ga
Scammer: do u carry ngk bkr5e spark plug q ga
Business: uh hang on let me check (HOLDING) ok i m back yes we do carry those spark plugs ga
Scammer: do u have email so u can send me price pics and info of part q ga
Business: uh we don t have an email address this is auto zone u can try autozone.com ga
Scammer: i need to order 2000 units of plug ga
Business: excuse me qq did he say 2000 qq opr qq (ro redirecting) oh sorry uh sir did u just ask me if u cld order 2000 spark plugs qq ga
Scammer: i will send money order and will have my shipper pick up the parts q ga
Business: how about u just come in and pay for them qq ga
Scammer: am currently out of state on business but i will have my shipper pick the pieces from ur location q ga
Business: where are u at now qq ga
Scammer: am currently in the UK parts are for my customer in USA
Business: how are u paying for this again qq ga
Scammer: i will send u money order/cashiers check for price of units and will send u extra moneys so u can give shipper
Business: u know what qq i think i m going to end this call now this sounds like a scam and i am not gonna take part in this (sounds annoyed) ga
Scammer: why q i am real person i am deaf that is why i must use this svc don t believe the opr they lie to u they tell u i am fraud q ga
Business: no one has said anything to me i feel this call is not legitimate and i will be ending the call thk u opr for ur time and have a good day ga
Scammer: fuck u opr asshole
(ro here do not use abusive language towards the opr and find a different way to scam people u complete and utter piece of scam trash go f*** yourself u nigerian dirt ball) THK U IP RELAY OPR 666 FUCK OFF SK SK

i get polite when i get off work btw. and since i have a big total of about 12 hours from the time i get out until the time i have to be awake to go right back to work ... on a saturday night none the less, i get very polite :) i just wanna be able to sit around and drink with my friends and not have to pass out almost immediately. weak!
 
OH boy..that is disheartening. I wish you relay operators are allowed to personally tell those scammers to fuck off. I know..rules rules. GRRR :pissed:
 
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