The Audists are coming for you...

Wirelessly posted

and if i posted that i think that the Deaf adults who protest against oral schools, CIs and spoken language are like Nazis because they are attempting to wipe out oral deaf people....how would that fly? They are attempting to rid the earth of a minority group....
 
Daredevel7 said:
Sigh....

Of course NOT. I'm actually kinda sad that you thought I'd think that. I said CULTURAL genocide, not just genocide. You posted a link that said "Cochlear Implants: Miracle Technology or Cultural Genocide?". I said that I wasn't going to talk about that because it's an opinion, speculation. It was talking about the POSSIBLE FUTURE, not the past nor even the present. So that's why I ignored it for this debate.

Now that's explained (I hope).

I doubt shaming the audists will make a difference. I have more faith in educating them. Are you saying that Deaf people can relate to pretty much any minority?
Click to expand...

There was a time that I believed that education alone was the key. Over the years I have come to see that they are so comfortable with their audist perspectives and so defensive of anything that suggest that their audism is an oppressive attitude that they refuse to become open minded and honest enough to actually be educated. It is the same situation as those who refuse to look at their racist belief systems or their homophobic belief systems. They are too comfortable with the feeling that their majority status gives them some sort of protection and priviledge that they have no interest in learning the truth.
 
faire_jour said:
Wirelessly posted

and if i posted that i think that the Deaf adults who protest against oral schools, CIs and spoken language are like Nazis because they are attempting to wipe out oral deaf people....how would that fly? They are attempting to rid the earth of a minority group....
Click to expand...

Apples and oranges. The oral deaf are members of hearing culture.:roll: The hearing are a majority culture. The whole goal behind becoming oral deaf is to assimilate into hearing culture.
 
jillio said:
There was a time that I believed that education alone was the key. Over the years I have come to see that they are so comfortable with their audist perspectives and so defensive of anything that suggest that their audism is an oppressive attitude that they refuse to become open minded and honest enough to actually be educated. It is the same situation as those who refuse to look at their racist belief systems or their homophobic belief systems. They are too comfortable with the feeling that their majority status gives them some sort of protection and priviledge that they have no interest in learning the truth.
Click to expand...

Honestly? I think most people who are like that are the parents of deaf kids. Loud, but very very small group.

Edit: I just realized that there's also the CI industry, audiologists, and so on. I don't really count those because their job depends on their beliefs.
 
Daredevel7 said:
Honestly? I think most people who are like that are the parents of deaf kids. Loud, but very very small group.
Click to expand...

True that. But they are the ones whose audism has the most profound effect on the deaf.

Generally, educating regarding accommodations, etc. in the widespread society is much easier, and addresses audism to a degree. It certainly helps to bring down some of the barriers that are created by audistic thinking. So, in those cases, education is most definately beneficial. And something I will continue my effort towards.

But the ones that have the most negative impact, in a very profound way, are the parents who hold onto their audist beliefs systems at the same time they are making decisions for deaf children. Those are the ones that appear to be completely resistant to education. I am slowly loosing my patience with that vocal and destructive faction, and have become resigned to the fact that, in most cases, we can't prevent the negative consequences. I will simply be spending the rest of my days cleaning up the messes they create.
 
jillio said:
True that. But they are the ones whose audism has the most profound effect on the deaf.

Generally, educating regarding accommodations, etc. in the widespread society is much easier, and addresses audism to a degree. It certainly helps to bring down some of the barriers that are created by audistic thinking. So, in those cases, education is most definately beneficial. And something I will continue my effort towards.

But the ones that have the most negative impact, in a very profound way, are the parents who hold onto their audist beliefs systems at the same time they are making decisions for deaf children. Those are the ones that appear to be completely resistant to education. I am slowly loosing my patience with that vocal and destructive faction, and have become resigned to the fact that, in most cases, we can't prevent the negative consequences. I will simply be spending the rest of my days cleaning up the messes they create.
Click to expand...
The whole Deaf community will be doing that as well.
 
Wirelessly posted (droid)

Regarding opression of different group: Its not useful to compare mistreatment of various groups. It's wrong and it hurts people. You can't quantify people's pain. It becomes the Oppression Olympics. The majority group loves in fighting because it's divide and conquer. Why do the dirty work when you can get someone to do it for you?
 
Last edited:
Well, as I said, if you, a deaf person, identify with the Nazi victims, well then, great... I... guess?

I'm not sure if announcing this "common ground" with the Nazi victims is supposed to be a good thing. Is it supposed to empower deaf people? Is it supposed to help hearing people realize all the Naziness they are doing to deaf people?

My personal opinion is that it gives the perception of Deaf power whining. It's seems a little odd to shout out that we are being treated just like the Nazi victims, especially when we receive SSDI, have CC/interpreters, Deaf schools, and so on.

Our obstacles and issues are not glaringly obvious. That's why experiences, research, and statistics speak louder to me. In fact, to me, many posts in AD (that describe their experience and obstacles) as well as links to research are far more powerful and profound than a simple comparison to the Nazi victims.
 
sallylou said:
Wirelessly posted (droid)

Regarding opression of different group: Its not useful to compare mistreatment of various groups. It's wrong and it hurts people. You can't quantify people's pain. It becomes the Oppression Olympics. The majority group loves in fighting because it's divide and conquer. Why do the dirty work when you can get someone to do it for you?
Click to expand...

While that is true, but does that mean you have to do the opposite? "My pain is the same as your pain?" See what I mean?
 
Daredevel7 said:
While that is true, but does that mean you have to do the opposite? "My pain is the same as your pain?" See what I mean?
Click to expand...

See, you are misunderstanding a bit. No one is saying, "My pain is the same as your pain."

What is being said is, "The pain I suffer as the result of oppression allows me to empathize and recognize the pain you suffer as the result of oppression."
 
jillio said:
See, you are misunderstanding a bit. No one is saying, "My pain is the same as your pain."

What is being said is, "The pain I suffer as the result of oppression allows me to empathize and recognize the pain you suffer as the result of oppression."
Click to expand...

Maybe it's just me, then.

Personally, when someone tells me "I have a mild loss on my left ear, so I can understand what you've gone though."

In my head, I roll my eyes.

I still can't relate. To me, The Nazis knew what they were doing. Hearing people generally don't. I personally CANNOT presume to understand the pain the victims have suffered as a result of oppression. Recognize, sure. Empathize, no. I will only empathize when I personally know about THEIR feelings, THEIR situation, THEIR story.

To each their own.
 
Daredevel7 said:
Maybe it's just me, then.

Personally, when someone tells me "I have a mild loss on my left ear, so I can understand what you've gone though."

In my head, I roll my eyes.

I still can't relate. To me, The Nazis knew what they were doing. Hearing people generally don't. I personally CANNOT presume to understand the pain the victims have suffered as a result of oppression. Recognize, sure. Empathize, no. I will only empathize when I personally know about THEIR feelings, THEIR situation, THEIR story.

To each their own.
Click to expand...

See, I have to agree with you on that. Never would I presume to understand what you have gone through. I can empathize, and I can seek to understand based on what you share with me and relating it to what I have known and experienced. But I cannot understand in the way that you understand your experience, nor would I presume to think I could.

Many of those in the Nazi party really didn't have a full understanding of what they were participating in, and many more simply went along out of fear for their own lives. All those we label as Nazi didn't have the same motivations for their behavior. A select few knew, understood, and were complete monsters.
 
Daredevel7 said:
Well, as I said, if you, a deaf person, identify with the Nazi victims, well then, great... I... guess?

I'm not sure if announcing this "common ground" with the Nazi victims is supposed to be a good thing. Is it supposed to empower deaf people? Is it supposed to help hearing people realize all the Naziness they are doing to deaf people?

My personal opinion is that it gives the perception of Deaf power whining. It's seems a little odd to shout out that we are being treated just like the Nazi victims, especially when we receive SSDI, have CC/interpreters, Deaf schools, and so on.

Our obstacles and issues are not glaringly obvious. That's why experiences, research, and statistics speak louder to me. In fact, to me, many posts in AD (that describe their experience and obstacles) as well as links to research are far more powerful and profound than a simple comparison to the Nazi victims.
Click to expand...

Well, one has to recognize their own opppression in order to be empowered to get out from under it. Often, the way that is accomplished is by learning more about the oppression of a different group, and saying, "Hey, that hits a bell with me!" So, yes, it does, in an indirect way, empower.
 
I would never say that my sorrow is greater than anyone else's.
 
jillio said:
Well, one has to recognize their own opppression in order to be empowered to get out from under it. Often, the way that is accomplished is by learning more about the oppression of a different group, and saying, "Hey, that hits a bell with me!" So, yes, it does, in an indirect way, empower.
Click to expand...

Yes, I can see that the number of Jewish people (along with Romani people, Poles, Slavic people, mental-challenged people, gays, and all the good people who tried to protect the people/critizied the Nazi government.) dwindled down fast before the Nazis were finally stopped. I don't want the Deaf people to go that way so I fight harder to stop this kind of treatment.
 
Maybe we need to distinguish understanding from empathy. Understanding would be knowing what the other person suffered. Literally having lived it. Empathy would be knowing what is like to experience a certain emotion.

I see someone who is sad, and I know what it is like to be sad. I can remember when something made me (a loss). I know that the other person's sadness is his own--separate from me--and caused by a different loss. I can see that person is suffering from sadness. I can experience some of his sadness with him.
 
sallylou said:
Maybe we need to distinguish understanding from empathy. Understanding would be knowing what the other person suffered. Literally having lived it. Empathy would be knowing what is like to experience a certain emotion.

I see someone who is sad, and I know what it is like to be sad. I can remember when something made me (a loss). I know that the other person's sadness is his own--separate from me--and caused by a different loss. I can see that person is suffering from sadness. I can experience some of his sadness with him.
Click to expand...

So there is understanding in sympathy? Is empathy a deeper understanding or a deeper sympathy?
 
sallylou said:
Maybe we need to distinguish understanding from empathy. Understanding would be knowing what the other person suffered. Literally having lived it. Empathy would be knowing what is like to experience a certain emotion.

I see someone who is sad, and I know what it is like to be sad. I can remember when something made me (a loss). I know that the other person's sadness is his own--separate from me--and caused by a different loss. I can see that person is suffering from sadness. I can experience some of his sadness with him.
Click to expand...

Excellent point. Many seem to use the equation sympathy=empathy=understanding. They are 3 different concepts.
 
Back
Top