Respect for all

Discussion in 'Hearing Aids & Cochlear Implants' started by jackiesolorzano, Jan 29, 2008.

  1. jackiesolorzano

    jackiesolorzano New Member

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    I have a question for all. If I can respect people's choices to just use ASL then why can't people respect my choices to raise my deaf teenagers orally and have them implanted. I do not understand why some people think they have the right to tell me that it was not my right to implant my children. What is happening is that a lot of you are scaring new parents away from seeking information from people in the Deaf culture. Why can we not just agree to disagree and treat each other with respect. Why can't people just admit that cochlear implants can be a very valuable tool.
     
  2. shel90

    shel90 Audist are not welcome Premium Member

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    For me, it is not the implants. It is the attitude of the parents saying that their child doesn't need sign language or that they want their children around other oral deaf or hearing only.

    U don't say that but others have said that. It is like automatic discriminations against those who have no oral skills and reply on sign language. What is wrong with having their children learn sign language and interact with the signing Deaf community?

    Because of that attitude especially out there away from AD (yes, it is rampant), it makes many of us feel that these people do not respect nor value us so why should we respect and value them?

    However those who get their children implanted but want their child involved in both communities along with ASL and spoken language, that's great!

    To those who say, ' My child doesn't need ASL or doesn't need to befriend with other deaf children especially those who sign" is really kinda like a put down to many of us.

    If they say.."I wud like to but there is nobody nearby" then that's understandable.

    Many of us deaf people grew up in an educational environment that was very restrivtive for us and we don't want other deaf children to go thru that but when we share our experiences and get disregarded, it brings up the old negative feelings about hearing "experts" forcing us to be "normal" which left many of us growing up feeling isolated and left out. That is no fun.

    I really am against the oral-only philosophy cuz I can't understand why anyone wud put a child in an educational environment in which he/she is forced to use their weakness sense for communication, language development, and learning. It is just too risky and I don't believe in it.

    If u and others don't like it, that's fine cuz u and others don't have to deal with trying to teach children so language delayed cuz of the oral-only philosophy. I do so iam sick of it.
     
  3. jillio

    jillio New Member

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    :gpost: I don't know of anyone here that chooses to use "just ASL only". Given the fact that even the strongest ASL users are typing written words, it would seem to be that they are using ASL and English.
     
  4. shel90

    shel90 Audist are not welcome Premium Member

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    For me, it is not the implants. It is the attitude of the parents saying that their child doesn't need sign language or that they want their children around other oral deaf or hearing only.

    U don't say that but others have said that. It is like automatic discriminations against those who have no oral skills and reply on sign language. What is wrong with having their children learn sign language and interact with the signing Deaf community?

    Because of that attitude especially out there away from AD (yes, it is rampant), it makes many of us feel that these people do not respect nor value us so why should we respect and value them?

    However those who get their children implanted but want their child involved in both communities along with ASL and spoken language, that's great!

    To those who say, ' My child doesn't need ASL or doesn't need to befriend with other deaf children especially those who sign" is really kinda like a put down to many of us.

    If they say.."I wud like to but there is nobody nearby" then that's understandable.

    Many of us deaf people grew up in an educational environment that was very restrivtive for us and we don't want other deaf children to go thru that but when we share our experiences and get disregarded, it brings up the old negative feelings about hearing "experts" forcing us to be "normal" which left many of us growing up feeling isolated and left out. That is no fun.

    I really am against the oral-only philosophy cuz I can't understand why anyone wud put a child in an educational environment in which he/she is forced to use their weakness sense for communication, language development, and learning. It is just too risky and I don't believe in it.

    If u and others don't like it, that's fine cuz u and others don't have to deal with trying to teach children so language delayed cuz of the oral-only philosophy. I do so iam sick of it.
     
  5. shel90

    shel90 Audist are not welcome Premium Member

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    Sorry for all the spelling errors and double post. I am using my pager with the tiny keyboards.


    One last thing I want to say is that I am never against anyone for implanting their children.

    That family I just met is considering getting their daughter implanted but that won't stop me from being their friend. They value the importance of the Deaf community and ASL as well as spoken language for their daughter. That to me is proving all opportunities and drastically decreases the risk of language delays.

    For others who r against CIs, I can't speak for them but I can undy their point of view as well. Doesn't mean I adopted their views but I can understand.

    If parents come here saying that they don't want their children to learn any sign language, then they will expect some strong reactions from some people since many of us value sign language just as much as they value oral language. It is common sense.

    Like people going into a Spanish forum and saying that they don't have a need for Spanish or say degrading things about Spanish. People will react to that, of course.
     
  6. jackiesolorzano

    jackiesolorzano New Member

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    JUST AS YOU DON'T CARE IF WE LIKE IT, WE PARENTS ALSO DON'T CARE IF YOU DEAF PEOPLE LIKE IT AND YOU KNOW WHAT THE KIDS THAT YOU SO MUCH CARE ABOUT ARE THE ONES THAT ARE AT RISKS BECAUSE AS LONG AS PEOPLE IN THE DEAF COMMUNITY THINK LIKE YOU DO WE PARENTS OF ORAL DEAF CHILDREN WILL NOT EXPOSE OUR CHILDREN TO PEOPLE LIKE YOU.
     
  7. Angel

    Angel ♥"Concrete Angel"♥ Premium Member

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    Hello Jackie, good to see you again.

    I do see cochlear implants as a valuable tool for most deaf people/children and I also agree with you that we can just agree to disagree knowing not all of us will raise our children the same way because every deaf child is different and I've mentioned before that oral methods may work on some but not all and sometimes we do have to take a step back, take a deep breath, and think without criticism or judge other parent's decisions. While I agree that you really have to look at each child differently and see what works best for that particular child.

    Please allow me to say this, sometimes I wish to see parents provide all tools for their deaf children because I believe ASL is a beautiful language for deaf people as well as hearing people to use for communication but that's just my opinion here.
     
  8. jackiesolorzano

    jackiesolorzano New Member

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    Angel I agree that ASL is a beautiful language. And I glad that my daughter has a pretty good command on it. And I am even more happier that the oral method did work well with them but I was ready to switch communication methods in the beginning if that is what we needed to do then. And now I even more pleased that my children are oral and now they can learn ASL if they want and when they want.
     
  9. jillio

    jillio New Member

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    Why are you yelling?

    And isn't the bolded statement above a bit judgemental for someone who claims to respect others and their decisions?
     
  10. jackiesolorzano

    jackiesolorzano New Member

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    Please I apologize if you thought I was yelling. I am really sorry, since I was typing in between what Shel was typing, I wanted to highlight everything I said so that is the only reason what I wrote was in caps. If you thought I was yelling, I really wasn't.

     
  11. jillio

    jillio New Member

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    Apology accepted. Yes, typing in all caps is considered to be yelling. That is why we usually use a different color font or italics when we reply within post.
     
  12. Miss-Delectable

    Miss-Delectable New Member

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    :gpost:

    My opinion it's two way street but often it seems that the deaf's view are ignored nor respected. Jackie, you did what you believed were right for your kids and that's fine.
     
  13. deafdyke

    deafdyke Well-Known Member

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    Ummm Jackie, many of US were oral only. NOBODY HERE is one of those Deaf extremists who is advocating "only Sign" for ALL dhh kids.
    Lots of us raised oral kids are glad we have oral abilty. We're just wondering why oral only runs on a really kind of audist platform, where Sign or anything else like that is an afterthought.
    It's so ironic.................AG Bell etc implies that there's "freedom in listening and talking" BUT, on the other hand oral only kids can't function without hearing aids and CIs.
    Many of us wouldn't appear to be anti-oral if more pro oralonliers were working with a full toolbox approach. Instead they are working with the approach that oral is best, and anything else is "special needs" or a "inhibitory crutch"
     
  14. deafdyke

    deafdyke Well-Known Member

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    Oh and Jackie,
    I respect people's decisions to only use speech. But the thing is, too often a person's decision to only use speech is the result of them only having speech skills. They don't have the abilty to make that decision based on a full toolbox philosophy. For example my friend Katie's daughter Remy started out with both speech and sign. She even went to Kansas School for the Deaf for preschool and kindergarten. She was exposed to Sign as a viable option/valuable tool not nessarily just as an "afterthought" in case speech fails, or as a "special needs" option. She decided on HER OWN that she wanted to speak. That's basicly what our philosophy is regarding oralism...............that the dhh kid themselves should have the abilty on their OWN to decide what tools they want to use! Maybe if that happened then a lot more, then a lot of the disagreements and feeling "discriminated" against would VANISH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  15. Tousi

    Tousi Well-Known Member

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    Going without a full toolbox is just like going to Las Vegas 98% of the time, lol....
     
  16. Buffalo

    Buffalo Active Member

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    Maybe the better question is do the hearing people in general really respect the Deafs' choices?? It is absolutely unfair for the government to allow the hearing people to decide on the education, jobs and even the reproductive rights for the Deaf population. Even they allowed parents to have CI put in the infant's head (scalpel to the head) so the kid can be more like hearing just like the parents. The government didn't stop it after the first death from CI-related complication(s). When those two American lesbians want a deaf child, one of them got pregnant the old fashioned way (where is the scalpel???) when they found a guy with 5 generations of deafness. Guess what? The British is trying to chip away the deaf population's reproductive rights with the Clause 14. I won't be surprised if the USA and other countries tried to emulate that. The Chinese government already required the Deaf Chinese to get the proof of sterilization before he/she can get married.

    The fact is that the hearing people have too much power over the deaf popluation. I believe that it is time for the Deaf Education to be under all-Deaf school board, not all-hearing school board. The hearing people had over 100 years of oralism and doesn't have much to show for it. The fourth grade reading skill of the average Deaf people? That is the proof of failure. The hearing people aren't going to relinquish their control of Deaf Education over to the Deaf people. The hearing people still don't listen to the Deaf people on the education for the Deaf. They listened to Stokoe (hearing) when he announced that ASL is a language in its own right. To me, TC is a long hesitant before the switch over to Bi-Bi. According to this link- (Sign language may help deaf children learn English) they are changing to Bi-Bi after hearing psychologists made this finding. Nothing is new under the sun.

    I find that very odd that you want us all to respect each other for different opinions. I have seen how snippy some of you guys can be, including you. I have seen your posts where you touted the oral education. It sounds like that you forbade your kids to learn ASL until much later on. You even told Vampryox that ASL should be the deaf person's personal choice (as in when the deaf person is older). I doubt that you would ever agree that CI should be the deaf person's personal choice (as in when the deaf person is older). I see the CI is a big gamble as no one can be sure of the outcome. That is why I think the ASL should be there from the beginning so to improve the deaf child's education and should be there as a safety net if the CI is in the picture. After all, ASL does improve the hearing child's vocabulary so why deny the same thing to a deaf child.
     
  17. Buffalo

    Buffalo Active Member

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    Exactly! You said it the best, Tousi !
     
  18. shel90

    shel90 Audist are not welcome Premium Member

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    Whoa...yelling? Relax..my post wasnt about u.

    Ok...at least I am honest with how I feel when people tell lies about ASL or say that ASL is not needed.

    I am not gonna be two-faced jjust to make some people happy.
     
  19. shel90

    shel90 Audist are not welcome Premium Member

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    That was the point I was trying to make but at this point I dont care anymore if my honest feelings turn some people off. That is how I really feel and if it makes people hate me, so be it. I would rather be honest than be two faced.
     
  20. shel90

    shel90 Audist are not welcome Premium Member

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    :gpost:
     

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