Questions about ASL...

Anne.

New Member
I have this question that I have been wanting to ask,
I just hope that I don't offend anyone here. yes I do realize that there may be a thread/post similar to this quetion, like the thread: "Deaf Culture" & "Ask Deaf People here", but I thought I would rather have my own Thread.
*My question is/are....

Why is signing (sign language)so different than typing to someone (a letter, &/or an e-mail, etc.).Because when you type, respond, &/or reply, it sounds like perfect english, but when you sign in ASL, it is soo very different. Why can't hearing people (who knows ASL) sign in english in the way they speak as oppose to how I was told it should be technically(ASL form)?

I hope I didn't offend anyone with that qestion.

Please feel free to repond,
even if it is good or bad,
depending upon your mood.

Thank you & God Bless. :)

Anne.
 

linneaelliott

New Member
Well, because if deafies did sign the same way we type, we are considered to sign SEE, not ASL. Because that is what SEE is... signing exact english. ASL is more like a picture of what the person wants to say, or just the concept.
I hope others will add to this, because I can't seem to think of anything else to tell Anne.
 

Anne.

New Member
Thank you so very much.
I really apreciate your respons.
That gives me an idea behind the difference between the two.

Also, I would like to know...
Since sign language is thought to sign the ASL way,
Should a hearing person must do it that way? instead of the english form?
if a hearing person signed in the way they speak, is it harder to understand?
Since there also so many languages in the world, I am understood that there are also many different sign language forms: in example, Japanese sign languges,(maybe hawaiians-?) etc.. so I am thinking, are there as many forms of sign laguages as there are many languages in the world?.

Just thought I would ask.

I would apreciate any (more) feedback you can give me.

Thanks again.

Anne. :)
 

Daft

Member
Always use the language syntax of the language you are using. You wouldn't use English syntax if you were speaking French. It would sound so strange to a native speaker. What would you think if a German would use German syntax while speaking English? Here's an example of what it would be like

My mother says, that I always to germany to travel to wish have.

Doesn't make sense.

Also, SEE is extremely wordy and really hurts the eyes after a while.
 

Anne.

New Member
Thank you so much for that input/information.
Now that I have more clearity on the subject,than being up in the early morning, & thinking it over & reading it over again, I think I got lost in the subject :Oops: of "SEE". may I have more explanation/information about that word: "SEE", please .

Thank you. :)

Anne.
 

Reba

Retired Terp
Premium Member
Anne. said:
... may I have more explanation/information about that word: "SEE", please.
Here it is in a nutshell (very condensed):

SEE is "Signing Exact English". It is a sign system used mostly in the public "mainstream" school programs for deaf students. It is not a language. In the educational setting, English suffixes are attached to signs, such as verb endings (-ed, -ing) and noun plurals (-s, -es). Personal pronouns are initialized signs (HE, SHE, IT, HIS, HER, ITS). Verbs of being use initialized signs (IS, AM, BE, BEING, WAS, WERE). Articles are signed (A, AN, THE), and prepositions are signed (ON, IN, WITH) or spelled (O-F).

ASL is "American Sign Language". It is an actual language with its own vocabulary and rules of grammar and syntax. Non-manual markers (facial expressions) are used for grammar. Facial expressions is also used to indicate degree or quantity, in addition to feelings. Indexing is used for pronouns. Verb tense is indicated by a visual "time-line".

PSE is "Pidgin Signed English". It is a contact sign language that is used to bridge communication between ASL users and people who prefer to sign in English word order. It uses many of the ASL signs but in English word order, and with more "initialized" signs.

CASE is "Conceptually Accurate Signed English". A sign system similar to SEE but supposed to use signs that are more conceptually accurate in meaning, rather than "matching" signs that sound like English words to the hearing ear. For example, a hearing person might hear the sentence, "I can't stand that boring teacher!" and use the sign "STAND". The actual concept of the word stand in that sentence is "to bear or tolerate", so the sign used should be "PATIENT" (put-up-with).

This is just an off-the-cuff quickie discription. Sign language linguistics is at least a semester-long topic. :)

BTW, the use and preference of each sign language/system is a political/cultural "hot" topic.
 

signer16

New Member
Anne. said:

Why is signing (sign language)so different than typing to someone (a letter, &/or an e-mail, etc.).Because when you type, respond, &/or reply, it sounds like perfect english, but when you sign in ASL, it is soo very different. Why can't hearing people (who knows ASL) sign in english in the way they speak as oppose to how I was told it should be technically(ASL form)?
.
When a hearing person, who knows ASL, is a communicating with a deafie, who knows ASL, it only makes sense for them to use it. Before even getting into other issues, ASL is a faster, clearer way to communicate than PSE, SEE, and often times, English. ASL is a language made to be received visually, while SEE is a signing system, that hearing people made, to allow an auditory language to be visible. SEE is about as comfortable visibly as ASL would be spoken, it just isn't right. And as was said before, a person's eyes physically hurt more watching SEE rather than ASL for a long time. Also, English is an AUDITORY language, based on PHONETICS, and for a person who has never heard, this is an extremely difficult language to master; especially when there are exceptions to almost every grammatical rule, which can only be learned by memorization or hearing the language enough that it becomes natural.

Anne. said:
Since there also so many languages in the world, I am understood that there are also many different sign language forms: in example, Japanese sign languges,(maybe hawaiians-?) etc.. so I am thinking, are there as many forms of sign laguages as there are many languages in the world?
I've heard there are something like 150 different sign languages in the world; not to mention the sign systems and extinct sign languages. Many people have asked me why there isn't just a universal sign language, and I ask back why there isn't a universal spoken language. How does it make sense for, often times, hidden and oppressed minorities in every country to be able to get together a form a universal language when the majorities haven't? Just a thought... as I get asked that a lot.

Anne, I'm curious, what languages do you speak? I know you say you are now living in Hawaii, but did you live anywhere else before? Just curious, kk, gn
 

Anne.

New Member
signer16 said:
Anne, I'm curious, what languages do you speak? I know you say you are now living in Hawaii, but did you live anywhere else before? Just curious, kk, gn
That is a very definately good & admirable question.
Well, I use to speak filipino(tagalog), but now, I have grown accustom to the english language that my own language in itself have faded away(have not at all used it while growing up), but I can still understand some, but not all. Eventually I need to go back to school again to master my own filipino language. Though for right now, my own focuse & importance in my life is to master sign language fluently, & perhaps will again re learn my own language at a later time. Yes I have lived else where before. Many other places. I have lived in the philipines to which I was born in, & had grown up there as some of my younger years. Later had moved & lived to varies of different states/country. In short of it: Philipines,HongKong,Germany,Kansas,LasVegas NV., & Hawaii.My nationality are: swiss, filipino, & spanish. Which can't really speak fluently any of the three. I hope I managed to answer your question. Thank you for your answer & replying back to me. Take care & God Bless. Anne. :)
 

Anne.

New Member
Thank you everyone. :)

I would like to say, thank you to :Linneaelliott, Daft, Reba, & signer16 for giving me wonderful answers to my questions. So very helpful. If anyone else would like to add on to more information, you are welcome to answer them, as well.

Since Sunday is Mother's day, I would like to wish anyone who is reading this at the moment, if you are a mother, who have mothers, or who are mother to be, :
Happy Mother's Day to you!. :) Thank you again for the wonderful replies that I have recieved. If any of you would like to add more, that would be great & very helpful.

Have a wonderful weekend everybody.

Take care & God Bless. :)

Anne.
 

signer16

New Member
I didn't feelstarting a new thread for this would be good so...

I am an ASL student and I have to do a presentation on acid reflux. The one thing I can't seem to figure it is what classifier(s) to use to show food going down into the stomach. I am talking about a full meal, seems like it should be a liquid CL, but I don't know, I can't figure it out. Any help would be great.

Thx,
 

rjr2006

New Member
Anne. said:
I would like to say, thank you to :Linneaelliott, Daft, Reba, & signer16 for giving me wonderful answers to my questions. So very helpful. If anyone else would like to add on to more information, you are welcome to answer them, as well.

Since Sunday is Mother's day, I would like to wish anyone who is reading this at the moment, if you are a mother, who have mothers, or who are mother to be, :
Happy Mother's Day to you!. :) Thank you again for the wonderful replies that I have recieved. If any of you would like to add more, that would be great & very helpful.

Have a wonderful weekend everybody.

Take care & God Bless. :)

Anne.
My family chose SEE over ASL when I was a toddler so that they wanted me to read and write well. I had problems learning reguar English structures in 4th grade since my language development was delayed by an equivalent of 4 years due to my deafness when I was 10 years old, I wrote like a 1st grader :Oops:. When I entered deaf education program at public middle school and my freshman year, they only used ASL, so my family and I decided to terminate it last year during my sophomore year. Now, I am getting better at English every year, since I attend regular education with a little assistance from my special education services.
 

Anne.

New Member
rjr2006 said:
My family chose SEE over ASL when I was a toddler so that they wanted me to read and write well. I had problems learning reguar English structures in 4th grade since my language development was delayed by an equivalent of 4 years due to my deafness when I was 10 years old, I wrote like a 1st grader :Oops:. When I entered deaf education program at public middle school and my freshman year, they only used ASL, so my family and I decided to terminate it last year during my sophomore year. Now, I am getting better at English every year, since I attend regular education with a little assistance from my special education services.
I would like to say thank you for replying to this post/thread.

2nd of all, now, it doesn't really matter what difficulty you had way back then. I feel that now is what is most important. To me, reading your reply, & from your reply, you are damirable for having to better yourself to where you are now. To me, that is all that matters that regardless of a person's situation, that doesn't stop you from or you don't let it limit you on your availability on what you can do. Once you have the motivation to do anything, the availability is endless or limitless. :cheers:
Congratulations on your english being much better.

Take care and God Bless.

Anne. :)
 

hankpiece

New Member
Also it's because ASL wasn't derived from English. It was actually derived from French Sign Language and that's where a lot of the grammar and syntax comes from.
 

Anne.

New Member
hankpiece said:
Also it's because ASL wasn't derived from English. It was actually derived from French Sign Language and that's where a lot of the grammar and syntax comes from.
Thansk for replying back.

:-o WOW!. Really?!. That's something new to me.
:ty: Thank you for that bit of information.

I learn new things everday. :thumb:

So, is that a true fact that it "derived from FSL"?? :confused: :cool:
Well, have wonderful weekend.

Aloha.

Anne. :)
 

Anne.

New Member
signer16 said:
I am an ASL student and I have to do a presentation on acid reflux. The one thing I can't seem to figure it is what classifier(s) to use to show food going down into the stomach. I am talking about a full meal, seems like it should be a liquid CL, but I don't know, I can't figure it out. Any help would be great.

Thx,
:confused: :| :dunno:

I hope that you managed to find an answer some where along the line,
or atleast able to get some help.

I wouldn't know anything about that. sorry. :ugh: :dunno:

it's been ages since I was back in school that I had to do something lik that.

I just tried my best to get by (when I was in school). ;)

Hope you got some help with that.

Aloha & Take care.

Anne.
 

ITPjohn

SAC Class of 05
Premium Member
Short History Lesson

Anne. said:
Thansk for replying back.

:-o WOW!. Really?!. That's something new to me.
:ty: Thank you for that bit of information.

I learn new things everday. :thumb:

So, is that a true fact that it "derived from FSL"?? :confused: :cool:
Well, have wonderful weekend.

Aloha.

Anne. :)
"Formal" ASL got its start when Thomas Gallaudet went to Europe looking to learn Sign Language. After some time in England, he met someone from the Institute for the Deaf in Paris. Gallaudet went to Paris where he met Clerc, who agreed to come with him to the US to set up a school for the Deaf. While sailing back to the US, Clerc taught Gallaudet Signs and Gallaudet taught Clerc English. Together they started American School for the Deaf. It is still open today. About fifty years later, Gallaudet's son and wife started what is now Gallaudet University.

This is what I can remember off the top of my head. My Intro to Deaf class was years ago. Folks here can add info or try to find a book called "For Hearing People Only." It has PLENTY of good information.
 

ITPjohn

SAC Class of 05
Premium Member
CL help

signer16 said:
I am an ASL student and I have to do a presentation on acid reflux. The one thing I can't seem to figure it is what classifier(s) to use to show food going down into the stomach. I am talking about a full meal, seems like it should be a liquid CL, but I don't know, I can't figure it out. Any help would be great.

Thx,
For eating, use flattened 'O' and puffed cheeks plus BIG eyes. Trace the food's path with your index finger. Use curled five hand (like handshape for 500) in a circular motion to show upset stomach. Go from 'O' to 'D' handshape with a "sour" face to show the acid reflux itself or use your index finger tracing the path back up. Throwing up CL would be a '5' handshape with BOTH hands doing a circular motion from the mouth to out in front of your body. This is harder to type out than to show someone in person. Good luck with your presentation and I hope this helps.
 

hankpiece

New Member
ITPjohn said:
"Formal" ASL got its start when Thomas Gallaudet went to Europe looking to learn Sign Language. After some time in England, he met someone from the Institute for the Deaf in Paris. Gallaudet went to Paris where he met Clerc, who agreed to come with him to the US to set up a school for the Deaf. While sailing back to the US, Clerc taught Gallaudet Signs and Gallaudet taught Clerc English. Together they started American School for the Deaf. It is still open today. About fifty years later, Gallaudet's son and wife started what is now Gallaudet University.

This is what I can remember off the top of my head. My Intro to Deaf class was years ago. Folks here can add info or try to find a book called "For Hearing People Only." It has PLENTY of good information.
The book I read was called Journey Into The Deaf-World. I believe he learned it from the abbe d'Epee, but I could be wrong.
 

Anne.

New Member
Anne. said:
:confused: :| :dunno:

I hope that you managed to find an answer some where along the line,
or atleast able to get some help.

I wouldn't know anything about that. sorry. :ugh: :dunno:

it's been ages since I was back in school that I had to do something lik that.

I just tried my best to get by (when I was in school). ;)

Hope you got some help with that.

Aloha & Take care.

Anne.
:-o :eek2: :Oops: ooops. I must have been tired than I thought I was(had a long day).

I thought Signer16 wanted a full request on "Acid Reflux" on science,
& not a sign for "Acid Reflux". Sorry all for that mistake. :Oops:
 
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Anne.

New Member
ITPjohn said:
"Formal" ASL got its start when Thomas Gallaudet went to Europe looking to learn Sign Language. After some time in England, he met someone from the Institute for the Deaf in Paris. Gallaudet went to Paris where he met Clerc, who agreed to come with him to the US to set up a school for the Deaf. While sailing back to the US, Clerc taught Gallaudet Signs and Gallaudet taught Clerc English. Together they started American School for the Deaf. It is still open today. About fifty years later, Gallaudet's son and wife started what is now Gallaudet University.

This is what I can remember off the top of my head. My Intro to Deaf class was years ago. Folks here can add info or try to find a book called "For Hearing People Only." It has PLENTY of good information.
Thank you so much for that full information, to help me understand better. Thank you also for helping me jog my memory, I think I have heard/read something similar in regards to "Thomas Gallaudet" a long time ago, but have forgotten about it. Thank you. Also thank you for helping signer16 out with his request. :thumb:

Thank you & Aloha.

Anne. :)
 
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