Problems with heat and overheating

[ambrosia]

I know very little about cars, most of my knowledge extends to things I've had to have repaired.

So gear heads, a little background.

I have a 2004 Dodge Intrepid I bought in July of 2010. Obviously I didn't need to start using the heat until a few months after I bought it. The first time I used it I discovered problems with. Like say in the moring you go out and start your car to warm it up throw on the heat to defrost the windshield. The entire time I've owned it the engine will warm up doing that but the heater won't blow hot air until the car is moving. Even if I stop at a red light the heater will go from blowing hot air to cold.

In late spring of 2012 I had to replace the thermostat, it over heated and blew, crap I forget the name of the valve. The following winter, so '12-'13 the heat was being even more wonky, sometimes the heat wouldn't blow hot unless I was driving over 50, and I had to top off the antifreeze A LOT even though I could never find it leaking under my car.

So last spring, 2013, after I got my taxes back I got a tune up and replaced the battery. A few days later my check engine light came on. It was my thermostat, again!! I had to replace it when it was a little less than a year old. THEN a couple months later it overheated and I got a crack in my radiator, had to replace the radiator.

A few days ago I drove to the gas station about 10 minutes away, and straight back to the house. Same thing car heats up but doesn't blow hot til I'm moving. Heat worked on the way there, but not the way home. I park the car in the driveway. Now, it never overheated according to the temperature gauge but after I stopped a lot of steam was coming out from under the hood, actually close to the windshield, not the radiator.

Any guesses for what could be causing my problems, I'm wondering if something else is funking up my thermostat. Water pump? Heater core? something else entirely? Like my car is possessed

 

[Calvin]

It sounds like there is a leak in the back, might be heater core. Another possibly is air in the cooling system.

I googled up the 2004 Dodge Intrepid heater problems... and this forum might be of a help: They are saying water pump could be the problem.

Heater Problems - DodgeIntrepid.Net Forums - Dodge Intrepid, Concorde, 300m and Eagle Vision chat

Good luck!

I know very little about cars, most of my knowledge extends to things I've had to have repaired.

So gear heads, a little background.

I have a 2004 Dodge Intrepid I bought in July of 2010. Obviously I didn't need to start using the heat until a few months after I bought it. The first time I used it I discovered problems with. Like say in the moring you go out and start your car to warm it up throw on the heat to defrost the windshield. The entire time I've owned it the engine will warm up doing that but the heater won't blow hot air until the car is moving. Even if I stop at a red light the heater will go from blowing hot air to cold.

In late spring of 2012 I had to replace the thermostat, it over heated and blew, crap I forget the name of the valve. The following winter, so '12-'13 the heat was being even more wonky, sometimes the heat wouldn't blow hot unless I was driving over 50, and I had to top off the antifreeze A LOT even though I could never find it leaking under my car.

So last spring, 2013, after I got my taxes back I got a tune up and replaced the battery. A few days later my check engine light came on. It was my thermostat, again!! I had to replace it when it was a little less than a year old. THEN a couple months later it overheated and I got a crack in my radiator, had to replace the radiator.

A few days ago I drove to the gas station about 10 minutes away, and straight back to the house. Same thing car heats up but doesn't blow hot til I'm moving. Heat worked on the way there, but not the way home. I park the car in the driveway. Now, it never overheated according to the temperature gauge but after I stopped a lot of steam was coming out from under the hood, actually close to the windshield, not the radiator.

Any guesses for what could be causing my problems, I'm wondering if something else is funking up my thermostat. Water pump? Heater core? something else entirely? Like my car is possessed

 

[ambrosia]

Thanks

That's sounds exactly like my problem. Funny thing about it is how the guys were like fix it immediately it will kill your engine. It has caused me problems but I've been driving like for over 3 years. Crap I probably just jinxed myself.

 

[deafsmogtech]

I go with Calvin for air traps in cooling system. I think your mechanic is not professional with your car. Why? Mechanic don't like to spend time to bleeding air out of the cooling system. Happened to me that my mechanics who neglect the cooling bleeding procedure, as they hurried to fill coolant and release the vehicles for fast money....

 

[Grummer]

so , go to the radiator service place?

 

[green427]

Amber:

When you get heat only when the car is moving, it usually means there is no water flow to your heater core inside the car unless your engine is revving fast enough to get water flow......which means your water pump is suspect.

Too bad you live far away from me....you could bring it to my house and be my assistant while I replace the pump. Might take a few days, with all the breaks we would take in between....LOL.

Replacing a water pump is not hard, getting to the water pump is a pain, as you have to remove several parts to get to it....and unfortunately, Intrepids are a real pain to work on. Google searches turn up between 4 to 8 hours of labor, which is ridiculous.

 

[Mewtilation]

Honestly I had the same issue a couple cars back. The only time the heat would get warm is when I was driving. Any time I was stopped at a light or anything it would blow cool air. ( Not like the A/C just cool air ) It started smoking just like you're saying also. I realized I was having to add radiator fluid about once every few weeks. ( Are you having to add fluid? ) After checking and replacing my thermostat 3 times, we finally figured out it was a leak coming from the Head-Gasket. NOT a fun repair... We didn't see any leaks because the coolant was burning off on the engine. Hope it's not that!!! !!! Have them check for a coolant leak, ESPECIALLY around your head-gasket.

Your second problem is that it's a Dodge...

 

[deafsmogtech]

Amber:

When you get heat only when the car is moving, it usually means there is no water flow to your heater core inside the car unless your engine is revving fast enough to get water flow......which means your water pump is suspect.

Too bad you live far away from me....you could bring it to my house and be my assistant while I replace the pump. Might take a few days, with all the breaks we would take in between....LOL.

Replacing a water pump is not hard, getting to the water pump is a pain, as you have to remove several parts to get to it....and unfortunately, Intrepids are a real pain to work on. Google searches turn up between 4 to 8 hours of labor, which is ridiculous.

Yes, right. Sometime new T-stats (aftermarket) or wrong T-stats can cause
heater output problems. Lack air bleeding procedure also cause erratic heater input. Restricted heater core can cause too. My view on OP is her car might have cylinder head gasket problem because OP topoffs coolant reservoir A LOT, no coolant leaks found.

 

[deafsmogtech]

About 2 years ago I subbed for a smog tech in another gas station, walk around the shop like I'm a shop foreman, spot small pool of green coolant on the black paved surface where the 2000ish Chevy Suburban sit, while a mechanic leave his cooling pressure tester on the neck of coolant reservoir pressurized as he work on another vehicle. I inform him about the leak, he say where, I say under the back of SUV. I don't know anything about this SUV. He say oh ****... He wrote a note to me that he replaced head gaskets few months ago, this SUV came back with same coolant loss issue, didn't find external leaks. Now he realized it. I think the coolant leaks is located at the rear auxiliary HVAC just under the body close to the rear fender quarter. Wow

 

[deafsmogtech]

Honestly I had the same issue a couple cars back. The only time the heat would get warm is when I was driving. Any time I was stopped at a light or anything it would blow cool air. ( Not like the A/C just cool air ) It started smoking just like you're saying also. I realized I was having to add radiator fluid about once every few weeks. ( Are you having to add fluid? ) After checking and replacing my thermostat 3 times, we finally figured out it was a leak coming from the Head-Gasket. NOT a fun repair... We didn't see any leaks because the coolant was burning off on the engine. Hope it's not that!!! !!! Have them check for a coolant leak, ESPECIALLY around your head-gasket.

Your second problem is that it's a Dodge...

Good caught on the head gasket issue. Wait wait OP says she notice coolant stream up from under hood near the firewall. I would say heater core or head gasket or T-Stat housing in the front of the engine where coolant seep to rear look like heater core or hoses, I've seen it before while emission inspection in the past. Why don't you help to fix OP's car?

 

[ambrosia]

Amber:

When you get heat only when the car is moving, it usually means there is no water flow to your heater core inside the car unless your engine is revving fast enough to get water flow......which means your water pump is suspect.

Too bad you live far away from me....you could bring it to my house and be my assistant while I replace the pump. Might take a few days, with all the breaks we would take in between....LOL.

Replacing a water pump is not hard, getting to the water pump is a pain, as you have to remove several parts to get to it....and unfortunately, Intrepids are a real pain to work on. Google searches turn up between 4 to 8 hours of labor, which is ridiculous.

Ugh yeah my thermostat was hard to replace to, it's a $300 job, all labor. Poooooop

Honestly I had the same issue a couple cars back. The only time the heat would get warm is when I was driving. Any time I was stopped at a light or anything it would blow cool air. ( Not like the A/C just cool air ) It started smoking just like you're saying also. I realized I was having to add radiator fluid about once every few weeks. ( Are you having to add fluid? ) After checking and replacing my thermostat 3 times, we finally figured out it was a leak coming from the Head-Gasket. NOT a fun repair... We didn't see any leaks because the coolant was burning off on the engine. Hope it's not that!!! !!! Have them check for a coolant leak, ESPECIALLY around your head-gasket.

Your second problem is that it's a Dodge...

Funny

Gah I hope it's not that!!! My coolant does disappear but according to the link Calvin posted that was happening with the water pump problem also. Crossing my fingers, because the water pump will probably be enough if a pain in the ass. Hmmm probably would be equally bad lol at the head gasket is like right there right

 

[Mewtilation]

A water pump would be WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY less of a pain in the a$$ and WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY cheaper!!! I'll cross my fingers it's your water pump and not your head gasket... My check book cried when I had to replace that damn head gasket!

$300 to replace a thermostat?!?! Wow, that's insane! I don't know much about Dodges, but I was just curious one day and checking how much one was for my Scion and the cost of it was like $13 bucks or something ridiculous from Auto Zone. It is right on top and takes all of but 5 minutes to change out from what he showed me. Dodges are terrible! I know my father had a Dodge truck for a bit, but it kept skipping time and bending the valves. He finally just junked it out. I will definitely keep my fingers crossed for you that it's something minor though!!!!

 

[goodonya]

Two ways a water pump tells you it is done. One there is a weep hole in the housing above and below the shaft. If it has electric cooling fans I dunno. The other is unfortunately for us the sound of bearing going bad. I go by feel and vibration but it is not so easy to get in there. For some reason this sounds more like a sneaky leak. Take Dad along to the shop if he can.
Men get screwed over in the doctors world. Women get screwed over in the mechanics world. It really pays to have someone with you. With vehicles someone who can hear as well.

I remember driving through Canada one winter up between Fort Nelson and Fort St John right in the middle a hundred miles each way at a place called Bucking Horse. I see a big cloud of smoke behind me and my temp gage is rapidly going up past boiling. When I got off the road and looked under the hood it was not a pretty sight. The water pump had obviously been making a huge amount of noise in its death throes. It was totally gone with bearing thrown all over some so hot they had imbedded themselves in the block. After the ordeal of getting into a shop the mechanic is looking at it with me. I still remember the look on his face realizing that it must have been crying loudly for help for a long time before the end.

 

[ambrosia]

A water pump would be WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY less of a pain in the a$$ and WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY cheaper!!! I'll cross my fingers it's your water pump and not your head gasket... My check book cried when I had to replace that damn head gasket!

$300 to replace a thermostat?!?! Wow, that's insane! I don't know much about Dodges, but I was just curious one day and checking how much one was for my Scion and the cost of it was like $13 bucks or something ridiculous from Auto Zone. It is right on top and takes all of but 5 minutes to change out from what he showed me. Dodges are terrible! I know my father had a Dodge truck for a bit, but it kept skipping time and bending the valves. He finally just junked it out. I will definitely keep my fingers crossed for you that it's something minor though!!!!

The thermostat itself was cheap, it's getting to it that's expensive. It's buried and they have to pull out who knows what to get to it. Green said he was looking and it's like an 8 hour job to replace the water pump. I read further into that link Calvin posted and the guy ended up replacing the water pump, and some other stuff....$800 not looking too good :/

 

[Calvin]

I believe it's because your car may be FWD (Front Wheel Drive) and is a pain to do water pump job hence higher labor cost. I have RWD (Rear Wheel Drive) Ford Explorer and I check the quote for the water pump replacement and it shows around $350.

How much to replace water pump? - DodgeIntrepid.Net Forums They're saying around $500 range.

The thermostat itself was cheap, it's getting to it that's expensive. It's buried and they have to pull out who knows what to get to it. Green said he was looking and it's like an 8 hour job to replace the water pump. I read further into that link Calvin posted and the guy ended up replacing the water pump, and some other stuff....$800 not looking too good :/

 

[deafsmogtech]

A water pump would be WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY less of a pain in the a$$ and WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY cheaper!!! I'll cross my fingers it's your water pump and not your head gasket... My check book cried when I had to replace that damn head gasket!

$300 to replace a thermostat?!?! Wow, that's insane! I don't know much about Dodges, but I was just curious one day and checking how much one was for my Scion and the cost of it was like $13 bucks or something ridiculous from Auto Zone. It is right on top and takes all of but 5 minutes to change out from what he showed me. Dodges are terrible! I know my father had a Dodge truck for a bit, but it kept skipping time and bending the valves. He finally just junked it out. I will definitely keep my fingers crossed for you that it's something minor though!!!!

$300 on T-stat replacement on her car is no insane. Normal.

 

[deafsmogtech]

I check Alldata for your car, I see 2 different engines... 2.7L DOHC V6 and 3.5L SOHC V6. The water pump or T-stat replacement for 2.7L V6 engines are very high labor cost than 3.5L V6 engine. The 2.7L DOHC V6 engines use timing chains. The rubber timing belts are used in 3.5L SOHC engines.

Labor Hourly for 2.7L DOHC V6.... T-stat (Thermostat)............2.0 hours
Water Pump......................8.1 hours

" " for 3.5L SOHC V6.....T-stat...............................1.3 hours
Water Pump......................3.0 hours

I guess your car have a 2.7L DOHC V6 because you spend $300 on new T-stat that may match 2 labor hours OR maybe your service manager or mechanic quote you as 2.7L labor sheet after ID your car as 3.5L engine.

 

[green427]

Yes, the Intrepid is FWD, but it also has a unique design: The engine is NOT transverse mounted like most FWD cars. When you open the hood, it looks like a RWD setup, but there is no driveshaft leaving the back of the trans, but it has two axles sticking out of the sides. All of this is crammed into a small space.

This is what it looks like when you open the hood:

Notice how crowded it is. Now if you removed the engine, take a look at how close the transmission is to the front of the car:

Notice the axles sticking out of the sides of the trans body?


Here is what it would look like removed from the car:

Sounds like many people swapped the 2.7L for the bigger one as the 2.7L apparently is not reliable.



To get to the water pump, you have to remove all this shit, which requires precision when putting back together:

Once you remove it all, you can see the water pump in the upper center....voila, that f*cking $40 water pump is right there:

 

[deafsmogtech]

Awesome pix
1st pix is a 2.7L DOHC V6
4th pix is timing chain in 2.7L DOHC V6
5th pix is a 3.5L SOHC V6 with timing belt,like easy to replace water pump.
Agree w/ you that 2.7 L engine is hard work. To me is I can done water pump/timing chain in less 6 hours. I never been working on it before. Only 3.5L The labor on water pump replacement in a 2.7L is not required the engine removal...Just remove upper intake manifold, valve covers, upper radiator support crossmember, radiator along with electric cooling fans then process to the front timing cover removal then see the timing chain and water pump. Some techs in iATN forum, recommend OEM timing chain kit from dealership than use f..king Chinese made timing chain kit....just says

 

[Calvin]

Yikes... no wonder it's an expensive repair job for that design.