Oregon community college shooting, multiple casualties

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DeafNerdMommy

Well-Known Member
After the shooting a lot of Oregonian went out and bought guns. Using at the reason why we should all carry guns. That is one of the problems around here. Oregonian love fire arms and we know our rights. We even protested Obama and non of the families wanted to talk with him.

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seb

Well-Known Member
There are a lot of factors that create killers. Genes, family conditions and other stressors. That they are taught right from wrong has little bearing. Most killers could tell you what they did was considered wrong. Most where born with certain biological characteristics that make them predisposed to violence and then environmental traumas set them off.
Absolutely, and something sets them off. Unfortunately, almost 30% of them have had Aspergers or autism, so we have a serious problem if we continue to let them have firearms. Others have exhibited mental problems and nobody has reported them and only come out after the killings and say they were having problems. So until we figure out how to keep firearms out of the hands of these people we are going to continue to have these shootings.
 

jonnyghost

Well-Known Member
That's the second time you've referenced the 30% number so I'll quote myself from the other time.

"I've read the study that the 28% number came from by Allely Glasgow. First you should know that it is a study and not peer reviewed paper and second you should know that it is under a lot of critisism for being missleading. It claims that of the 239 killer 67 where possible autism. The truth is only 6 where diagnosed being nearly identical to the percentage in the general population."
 

seb

Well-Known Member
That's the second time you've referenced the 30% number so I'll quote myself from the other time.

"I've read the study that the 28% number came from by Allely Glasgow. First you should know that it is a study and not peer reviewed paper and second you should know that it is under a lot of critisism for being missleading. It claims that of the 239 killer 67 where possible autism. The truth is only 6 where diagnosed being nearly identical to the percentage in the general population."
Sorry, but I have read several different articles that link Autism/Aspergers Syndrome and mass murderers. Can you provide a link that shows the numbers that you are quoting?
 

jonnyghost

Well-Known Member
Sorry, I incorrectly said the study was by Allel Glasgow but it is Clare Allely at the university of Glasgow. I bet you'll find that all the articals you are reading are based on that study. Read it for yourself. You'll find that even though the media like the washington post grabbed on to certain numbers for good headlines the study was very clear about the number of actual diasgnosis.

In addition like I mentioned before it is also just a study. It is not a peer reviewed paper. There is a big difference. If you are finding the 30% number somewhere else I would like to see it.
 

jonnyghost

Well-Known Member
If you do a little research you'll find that many people on the specrum feel a deep need to obey the law to the letter and have a strong sense of justice and have high moral standards.
 

DeafNerdMommy

Well-Known Member
I don't think it is people with autism. But I do think we need to screen college students for mental illnesses. More of depression, abuse, or even bullying. The shoot in oregon, the guy shoot Christian up more then the rest of the victims. So some thing triggered him mentally. Or lack of sleep, stress, disappointment. Really anything. Older teens and young adults have very unstable brains.

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seb

Well-Known Member
Sorry, I incorrectly said the study was by Allel Glasgow but it is Clare Allely at the university of Glasgow. I bet you'll find that all the articals you are reading are based on that study. Read it for yourself. You'll find that even though the media like the washington post grabbed on to certain numbers for good headlines the study was very clear about the number of actual diasgnosis.

In addition like I mentioned before it is also just a study. It is not a peer reviewed paper. There is a big difference. If you are finding the 30% number somewhere else I would like to see it.
I have read the article that you are talking about, but I have also read articles that state the numbers I have been using. Here is a portion of one of those that I have read dated from 2014: { "The research examined a population of 239 killers who had murdered at least three people since 1985, when there was a dramatic increase in the recognition of autism. Of that number, 133 of the mass killers did not appear to suffer from any neurological disorder, but a “significant proportion” did: 28 percent had “definite, highly probable or possible” autism, while 21 percent had sustained a “definite or suspected head injury.” And of those 106 killers, more than half experienced some “psychological stressor” such as physical or sexual abuse."} This article spells it out quite clearly and doesn't give % but actually also includes numbers. I agree that most people with Autism/Aspergers have an unusually high moral standard, but what is scary is the ones who talk about nobody liking them and wanting to either "show them" or actually talk about killing someone. And the last time I looked they could actually go out and buy a gun.
 

jonnyghost

Well-Known Member
I'm not talking about the articals. All the articals are based on 1 study. The study was by Clare Allely. I'm not sure where you can get it or I would provide a link. I subscribe to some scientific publications and it was in one of them. I will see what I can do about finding it for you. If you look at the scources for the articals you are looking at you will find they all list this one single study.
 

jonnyghost

Well-Known Member
If you read the entire washing post artical this is what the researchers had to say

"The researchers stressed the study is “clearly limited” by the “anecdotal and speculative” nature of some of the published accounts.Lead researcher Clare Allely, of the University of Glasgow, emphasized the study did not suggest those with autism or Asperger’s are more likely to commit murder. “We’re not saying people with autism will be serial killers,” Allely said, adding “it’s way too early to make any statement like that.”"

Anecdotal and speculative published accounts?? Wow, that's some solid data they are working from!
 

jonnyghost

Well-Known Member
What Clare had to say about some other research on the matter.

“Crucially, we are not suggesting that individuals with ASD are more likely to be serial killers or commit serious crime,” she said, "rather, and consistent with Fitzgerald, we are suggesting that there may be a tiny subgroup of individuals with ASD who are more likely to be serious offenders.”

A bit contradictry but she does clearly state that she does not belive people with ASD are any more likely to be killers.
 

jonnyghost

Well-Known Member
In other words there are many articals that are clearly biased by missrepresenting the conclusions of one single study that by it's own authors admition is clearly limited and based of anecdotal and speculative accounts.

You couldn't make up something more absurd. The articals clearly picked and chose parts of the study that fit their way of thinking but on top of that there is no factual basis for the study! :lol:
 

hoichi

Well-Known Member
Whats the percentege of mass murderers who are white males?
Seb?
If we are going to use percentage against those with autism, lets be fair then.
Shouldnt you?
Or is this one of those it only matters for those your biased against kind of things?
 

seb

Well-Known Member
Whats the percentege of mass murderers who are white males?
Seb?
If we are going to use percentage against those with autism, lets be fair then.
Shouldnt you?
Or is this one of those it only matters for those your biased against kind of things?
In the US most are and have been white males.

All I have said is based on the articles I have read the numbers presented are...and then given them. I think that numbers of 28% are statistically significant in regards to shooters having Autism or Aspergers Syndrome.
 

seb

Well-Known Member
I'm not talking about the articals. All the articals are based on 1 study. The study was by Clare Allely. I'm not sure where you can get it or I would provide a link. I subscribe to some scientific publications and it was in one of them. I will see what I can do about finding it for you. If you look at the scources for the articals you are looking at you will find they all list this one single study.
Here is a link for the PDF- eprints.gla.ac.uk/93426/1/93426.pdf
 

seb

Well-Known Member
What Clare had to say about some other research on the matter.

“Crucially, we are not suggesting that individuals with ASD are more likely to be serial killers or commit serious crime,” she said, "rather, and consistent with Fitzgerald, we are suggesting that there may be a tiny subgroup of individuals with ASD who are more likely to be serious offenders.”

A bit contradictry but she does clearly state that she does not belive people with ASD are any more likely to be killers.
There was no mention of a "tiny subgroup of individuals with ASD" mentioned in her study. I posted quotes from the actual study yesterday,but for some reason it was deleted.
 

jonnyghost

Well-Known Member
There was no mention of a "tiny subgroup of individuals with ASD" mentioned in her study. I posted quotes from the actual study yesterday,but for some reason it was deleted.
It's a quote by Clare when talking about someone elses reseach. It's not in the study. I see some of my posts are gone too. Don't know if it's a technical problem?
 

Reba

Retired Terp
Premium Member
. . . According to data compiled by Mother Jones magazine, which looked at mass shootings in the United States since 1982, white people -- almost exclusively white men -- committed some 64% of the shootings. . .

Black people committed close to 16% of the mass shooting Mother Jones looked at, while Asians were responsible for around 9%. People identified as either Latino, Native American and unknown rounded out the study.

"If you look at the whole list, it turns out that whites and blacks are pretty proportionate to their population, very close," said Dave Cullen, author of the book "Columbine," which tells the story of the 1999 massacre at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colorado. Harris and Klebold, the shooters there, were white.

Historically, Latinos and Asians have been the exception.

The Virginia Tech massacre was carried out by Seung-Hui Cho, who was born in South Korea.

"Latinos are almost nowhere to be seen," Cullen told CNN's "New Day." "Asians continue to be heavily overrepresented -- more than 2½ times their size in the population."

Whites make up about 63% of the U.S. population, blacks 13%, and Asians 5%, according to the latest census numbers. Latinos account for some 17% of the total population.
CNN
 

jonnyghost

Well-Known Member
In the US most are and have been white males.

All I have said is based on the articles I have read the numbers presented are...and then given them. I think that numbers of 28% are statistically significant in regards to shooters having Autism or Aspergers Syndrome.
We're obviusly going to disagree about that number so I'll ask you this. Why should we make drastic legal changes based on a single study? A study that based it's entire hypothesis on the speculation that individuals in their very small sample group have asd?
 
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