Oregon community college shooting, multiple casualties

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diehardbiker

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I really dislike assumptions... more often then not they are wrong.
Yes, surprisingly enough I got the safe at a store... No, it was not a bank vault, it was a standard gun safe. I will not shell out tens of thousands of dollars for something else that any determined criminal wants to get into can.
The downfall of being friends with cons and studying security... You learn it is all worthless...
Good on you for being able to get into one in five minutes... I can think of some that would laugh at your time and trouble...
Yup, there have been cases where somebody stole ATM machines in just couple minutes. Mind you, its way much harder to steal the ATM machine than gun safes, yet there are some success.
 

seb

Well-Known Member
I really dislike assumptions... more often then not they are wrong.
Yes, surprisingly enough I got the safe at a store... No, it was not a bank vault, it was a standard gun safe. I will not shell out tens of thousands of dollars for something else that any determined criminal wants to get into can.
The downfall of being friends with cons and studying security... You learn it is all worthless...
Good on you for being able to get into one in five minutes... I can think of some that would laugh at your time and trouble...
Unfortunately most thieves carry cordless grinders with them and can cut those safes open in minutes. If your going to own guns do everyone a favor and buy a safe that can't be cut open like a tin can. And yes, you should be held financially responsible for your gun if it is used in the commission of a crime. With gun ownership comes responsibility!
 

diehardbiker

Active Member
Unfortunately most thieves carry cordless grinders with them and can cut those safes open in minutes. If your going to own guns do everyone a favor and buy a safe that can't be cut open like a tin can. And yes, you should be held financially responsible for your gun if it is used in the commission of a crime. With gun ownership comes responsibility!
Sorry, I had to disagree, why put double jeopardy on victims? Those that got their gun stolen is a VICTIM! They are not criminal, they got nothing to do with murders, they should not be held accountable! Do you think anyone enjoyed having their properties stolen, eh?

Secondly, our law can not charge two suspects for same crime, charging those victim of stolen gun for same crime? I don't think it is justifiable.
 

seb

Well-Known Member
What kind of safe is it that it got bolt in floor? It can't be cheap one.

Still regardless, anyone can steal anything, there have been history of people successfully stole the ATM machine, you know ATM machines is very heavy and rigid, yet people find way to get in. Just like "if there is a will, there is an A"

I know right now, its getting harder to steal the ATM machine due to GPS being used nowadays.
Yes, they even run into it with a truck or car or tie a chain around it and pull it free. However, a safe is a little different, most people don't put them where someone can pull it out easily, but they really don't have to if it is a cheap gun safe bought at a gun shop or Home Depot. If the crooks come up against a real safe they won't spend the time it's going to take to get into it. The difference between a cheap gun safe and a real safe is it only takes minutes to get into the gun safe, it takes hours to get into the real safe.
 

diehardbiker

Active Member
SEB, aren't you aware that gun was stolen from police station from time to time? It happens, so cop held accountable? I don't think its going to happen by let cop go free and charge innocent citizens? Shame on you, tsk tsk!
 

diehardbiker

Active Member
Fantasy!

Yes, they even run into it with a truck or car or tie a chain around it and pull it free. However, a safe is a little different, most people don't put them where someone can pull it out easily, but they really don't have to if it is a cheap gun safe bought at a gun shop or Home Depot. If the crooks come up against a real safe they won't spend the time it's going to take to get into it. The difference between a cheap gun safe and a real safe is it only takes minutes to get into the gun safe, it takes hours to get into the real safe.
 

seb

Well-Known Member
Sorry, I had to disagree, why put double jeopardy on victims? Those that got their gun stolen is a VICTIM! They are not criminal, they got nothing to do with murders, they should not be held accountable! Do you think anyone enjoyed having their properties stolen, eh?

Secondly, our law can not charge two suspects for same crime, charging those victim of stolen gun for same crime? I don't think it is justifiable.
Now lets see, you don't want to take responsibility for raising your children, you want the schools to do it and now you don't want to take responsibility for your gun ownership. What exactly do you want to take responsibility for? I guess with you it's always someone else's fault.

I'm not talking criminal prosecution, however, if a victim of the crime wanted to sue you they could possibly win. If they get the right attorney, your in trouble! Do yourself a favor and get a real safe to store your guns in!
 

diehardbiker

Active Member
Now lets see, you don't want to take responsibility for raising your children, you want the schools to do it and now you don't want to take responsibility for your gun ownership. What exactly do you want to take responsibility for? I guess with you it's always someone else's fault.

I'm not talking criminal prosecution, however, if a victim of the crime wanted to sue you they could possibly win. If they get the right attorney, your in trouble! Do yourself a favor and get a real safe to store your guns in!
Where did I say parent is NOT responsible?
 

diehardbiker

Active Member
SEB, I think your very biased, I know your teacher so let me ask you question, are you promoting irresponsible responses? "Its not school's job" Its parent's job" What do you think kids will think after you saying this? Your actually promoting that it is OK to refuse responsibility and have other take responsibility instead. These kind of attitude promotes negatives toward to kids about how to handle responsible so that they can be whatever they want and not be responsible, eh?
 

seb

Well-Known Member
How do you propose keeping guns out of the hands of those who shouldnt have them?
Much more invasive back ground checks, since most of the school shooters have legally bought their guns a background check that involves mental health screenings and maybe even talking to neighbors and other family members should eliminate a number of these people who go on these killing sprees.
 

seb

Well-Known Member
Where did I say parent is NOT responsible?
Read post #64

The real problems begins AT school, thats where we need to take a look, what cause kids to grow up like madman, root out the cause, thats where it will help reduce the number of madman later on. We can not eliminate entirely. We will always have at least 1 bad apple in every direction of our lives. Gun control is really meaningless, and dangerous.
 

diehardbiker

Active Member
I fail to find statement that "it is not parent's responsibility" in post #64

What does "The real problem begins AT" means?

Read post #64

The real problems begins AT school, thats where we need to take a look, what cause kids to grow up like madman, root out the cause, thats where it will help reduce the number of madman later on. We can not eliminate entirely. We will always have at least 1 bad apple in every direction of our lives. Gun control is really meaningless, and dangerous.
 

diehardbiker

Active Member
Parents CAN raise kids fine, and end up screwed at school, have this happened in the past? Sure, you can bet on it. Let me tell you this based on my experience... I was born and raised in loving family of 4. My parents were great, worked hard to make sure all 4 kids were raised. When I had issues with school, mind you I went to Deaf school while the other three siblings went to hearing school. I had to ask my parents trying to resolve issue at school, and my school oppressed my parents. Whose fault is it? My parent's? tsk, tsk tsk!
 

seb

Well-Known Member
SEB, I think your very biased, I know your teacher so let me ask you question, are you promoting irresponsible responses? "Its not school's job" Its parent's job" What do you think kids will think after you saying this? Your actually promoting that it is OK to refuse responsibility and have other take responsibility instead. These kind of attitude promotes negatives toward to kids about how to handle responsible so that they can be whatever they want and not be responsible, eh?
No, what I have said is it's a parents job to teach right from wrong; when a parent shirks their responsibility to raise their children to respect others, their property, treat people as you would want to be treated and human life than they are the ones that are refusing to accept their responsibility and should of done the world a favor and never had children. The teachers job is to teach the subjects they are paid to teach. I have never taught at a school that had a subject titled " how to be an upstanding member of society!" If a child hasn't been taught right from wrong before they go to school, it's too late, you've lost them. If a parent doesn't want to take responsibility to do this they might as well take their child to the zoo, because they have in effect brought an animal and not a person into the world! Sorry to be so blunt, but this is how it is.
 

seb

Well-Known Member
I fail to find statement that "it is not parent's responsibility" in post #64

What does "The real problem begins AT" means?
I read your statement to be pretty clear that you feel the schools are to blame for these people and the parents are largely blameless.
 

Jezie

Well-Known Member
Unfortunately most thieves carry cordless grinders with them and can cut those safes open in minutes. If your going to own guns do everyone a favor and buy a safe that can't be cut open like a tin can. And yes, you should be held financially responsible for your gun if it is used in the commission of a crime. With gun ownership comes responsibility!
Hmm... I did not mean to like your post... Quite simply you add to your assumptions... It's sad really...
 
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