Oh, now this is SICK indeed!!

instead of consider how hard it can be for a deaf person to be mainstreamed
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Yes, even functionally hoh students have difficulty in the mainstream. I think too many hearing parents idealize the mainstream and think it's absolutly perfect...a utopia if you will. The education available at a mainstream school might be better then at a deaf school, but on the other hand, it is damn difficult to get services in the mainstream! Most of the special ed services are just token services...b/c the mainstream wants MONEY and they want to expend the least possible amount of effort to give you an education. Trust me I know. The mainstream ain't all cake and roses sugar!


It may be easier to just use ASL and send her to a school for the deaf. But think about it, the majority of schools for the deaf are among the lowest rated schools in the USA and Canada.

It is better to place a deaf child in a public school instead of a deaf school
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Banjo, I wouldn't say that. There are hearing schools which are even worse then deaf schools (inner city high schools, for example) Besides, the reason why kids at schools for the deaf don't receive a good education is: most students at schools for the deaf are oral failures...as a result they are VERY behind on academics and have to spend time aquirring language skills. Also, many kids at schools for the deaf, did not get appropreaite services in early intervention. Many of them may have only had access to the basic public EI system, instead of an EI system for dhh kids, so again they have to expend tons of energy to catching up.
Personally, I think that initally, all dhh kids should be sent to a school for the deaf, so they don't fall through the cracks...and in public schools they very often DO fall through the cracks. (especially seeing as most public school sped programs are targeted for kids with learning disabilties, rather then classic(eg deafness, blindness, mobilty etc) disabilties)
 
Almost forgot......I'm not against CIs for those who REALLY need them, like those with severe/profound losses which don't respond that well to hearing aids or auditory nereopathies. However, I think it's VERY difficult to adaquatly access a baby's hearing status and how well they hear or don't hear with or without hearing aids. I also know that ABRs can be inaccurate....I actually know of a little boy who got tested by ABR and it said that he had a hearing loss. He went back....GUESS WHAT? He didn't even HAVE a hearing loss!
I also know that even with ABR, a lot of kids still fall through the cracks. I remember an article that said that kids were still being dx late even with newborn screening!
 
deafdyke said:
Yes, even functionally hoh students have difficulty in the mainstream.
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Not only do functionally HOH children have difficulty in mainstream educational settings, the degree of hearing loss necessary to produce these difficulties is not nearly as severe as most clinicians believe. Just for the sake of argument, let’s pretend that a CI restores full, natural hearing to a deaf ear. What would happen if you were to implant a deaf child with such a device? You would have a child with single-sided deafness. Most clinicians believe that such a condition is only a modestly cumbersome impairment, and that educational success can be guaranteed through simple measures such as preferential seating. The truth of the matter is that ten times as many children with SSD repeat a grade as opposed to their bilaterally hearing counterparts. Since we all know that a CI does not restore full, natural hearing to a deaf ear, what does this tell us about the chances for normal academic achievement in a mainstream environment for a deaf child with a CI? I’m not suggesting that it is impossible, but it is far more difficult than the magic CI fairies would have you believe.
 
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I’m not suggesting that it is impossible, but it is far more difficult than the magic CI fairies would have you believe.
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*spits out her Diet Coke onto the computer screen* Lev, you are fekkin' hilarious! I so agree with you! Even kids with mild losses have academic, social and speech/language issues b/c of their losses. Most aided and CId people hear essentially within mild loss. There are some who test as having perfect hearing with CI,(100% on spondee test) but quite frankly I think that has more to do with the speaker having a professional speaker style voice. Not everyone talks in a professional speaker voice!
I think a lot of the mainstream and oral sucesses have more to do with the fact that the kids parent might be one of those highly political high powered AGBell type parents, or that the kid comes from a high powered/high achieving family...I mean Curtis Pride only had 5% hearing with a hearing aid, and he was deemed an oral sucess!
 
RedRum said:
Well, I wish my parents give me CI operation when I was baby but I understand it was not available when I was born!

Good for this baby to have CI !!
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well... decades ago the CI isn't good as now.. My parents did ask me when i was 8 yrs old.. if i wanted a CI.. i simple said "no" now CI have improved.. and Now i'm wondering if i should get one now?

but as for Ron.. Why would a parent be saying that his daugther is a broken person.. Deaf isn't define as broken.. She gets her CI means she's forever Deaf no matter what.. cuz without it she can't hear.
 
Levonian said:
If a child is implanted at the age of six months, how many times does the implant have to be removed and reimplanted before the child reaches their full adult skull size? Anybody got stats on this one?
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none... unless the internal device is damaged or malfunction.

from: http://www.nvvs.nl/ci/live_event010109.htm
(half way down)
This requires removing bone that is in the shape of this portion of the implant, and typically this will be carried down to a very thin layer of bone overlying the covering of the brain called the dura. This dura is protective of the brain and is very strong, fibrous connective tissue, which helps support the implant. It is very often necessary in adults and nearly always necessary in babies or infants to remove bone around the edge of the implant that goes all the way down to the dura. While leaving a flat, thin island of bone over the majority of this recessed area. Once the implant is secured in this space, this bony island will be lower than its normal position inside of the skull. Over time, this gap between the edge of the skull and this bony island will fill back in with bone, and this occurs most rapidly in children.
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There is no need to replace the ci as child grow because the size of internal ci is the width of a quarter! only thing that may be upgraded is external ci device such as bwp or bte.
 
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Levonian said:
If a child is implanted at the age of six months, how many times does the implant have to be removed and reimplanted before the child reaches their full adult skull size? Anybody got stats on this one?
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I am wondering about this too. I am curious if this child will have resurgery again and again when the skull grow enlarge size?

Oh Dear.. I wish, FDA would NEVER approval for the babies and adolescents got the implant. :madfawk: FDA !!
 
Besides, the reason why kids at schools for the deaf don't receive a good education is: most students at schools for the deaf are oral failures...as a result they are VERY behind on academics and have to spend time aquirring language skills. Also, many kids at schools for the deaf, did not get appropreaite services in early intervention. Many of them may have only had access to the basic public EI system, instead of an EI system for dhh kids, so again they have to expend tons of energy to catching up.
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deafdyke

Yes, I agree with you !! I grew up oralist with improper sign language from the teachers. I was all beside the academics due to waste alot of my time to learn how to speak mmm nnn to blow the paper at the speech therapist for many hours. I lost alot of academic. The teachers were not property in their sign language. My sentence structure and vocabulary were all beside due to confuse with two languages oral and improperly sign language.

I went to College, the student critizistim my sign language because I learned improperly English and old-fashioned sign language from my teachers and Father.

I worked very hard my ass off in English class. My favorite subject is English and Reading class. I made it go through with tutor and classes. I realized my fluency ASL is not perfect. I am still working on it.

I looked in the back. I realized, oral communication is fucking waste my time. I wish, all the teachers were Deaf. My writer and reader would be advance like today ! I am so impressed to seeing many Deaf children at Deaf School with all Deaf teachers. Their writing are awesome !! Their vocabulary and ASL signer equal College education level. I am so amazed !!
 
Sabrina said:
deafdyke

Yes, I agree with you !! I grew up oralist with improper sign language from the teachers. I was all beside the academics due to waste alot of my time to learn how to speak mmm nnn to blow the paper at the speech therapist for many hours. I lost alot of academic. The teachers were not property in their sign language. My sentence structure and vocabulary were all beside due to confuse with two languages oral and improperly sign language.
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Yes I agreed with you, I HATE speech lessons 5 days per week at school, and when I was little I don't think first before how to pronunced words to talk to deaf people, and it was in and out of my ears!
 
I've heard many times that Deaf children have an average reading level of about 5th grade (more or less). This isn't to say that many Deaf people haven't been able to get their doctorate degrees or such, but that some may have difficulty learning vocabulary and grammar because they can't hear the sounds the words make.

If this is true, do you think it would be helpful to get your child a CI? It might aid them in school.

**Don't jump on me...I'm just asking a question and trying to learn something.
 
I totally disagreed with CI .. if one of my kid is deaf, I will NOT let anyone put CI on my kid! I prefer to stay deaf than hear. God made me, so I accepted who I am. I have a few friends that got CI as an adults, and they loved it. That's fine...it is their decsion not me. I am not against my friends. S/he decides to have CI or not, if s/he is happy, that's fine by me. :rl: at CI
 
I beg to differ. This is not sick. Children look up to parents to make decisions so parents have every right to make decisions when their children are minor.

As a recent CI recipent, I am fortunate to have this choice while as an adult but I know I would have benefit far greatly had I been implanted as a child, to reap benefits from my rapid brain development. But now my brain is too slow so I know I will not see as much benefits as these children.

I have a 9 year old deaf niece. She was implanted with a CI at age 5. I cannot tell you how amazed I was by her rapid growth in language since getting a CI. Granted, it is NOT a cure. It will never be a cure but it is one of many essential tools for a young deaf child to survive this ever changing world.

Someday there will not be any social services left to help provide interpreting or vocational rehabiltion programs or schools for the deaf. We are fortunate to be living in an age where we could get all of that but with budget cuts, the young generation will not have these benefits so they need to have all of tools they could get to survive when they are on their own.

*stepping off on her soapbox*
 
but that some may have difficulty learning vocabulary and grammar because they can't hear the sounds the words make.
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Huh? I took French in high school, and couldn't pronounce the words very well, but am semi-fluent in it..I have a ton of vocabulary and understand the grammer and syntax and all that....but I can't pronounce words worth shit.
Same goes with English...I am good at English, and have the foundations of good language, but I can't pronounce words in English very well (I pronounce them phoneticly)
Someone can have good speech but have rotten language and someone can have a good grasp on a language but not be able to speak it very well.
Sure there are some kids who show improvements in their language after being implanted with CI, but there are still many kids who have very basic spoken language skills even when implanted!
Someday there will not be any social services left to help provide interpreting or vocational rehabiltion programs or schools for the deaf. We are fortunate to be living in an age where we could get all of that but with budget cuts, the young generation will not have these benefits so they need to have all of tools they could get to survive when they are on their own.
Meg, So what you're saying is that only Signing Deaf people require services like that? Oral deaf people often require the services of interpreters(ever hear of oral interpreters or Cued Speech translitorators?) and services like CART (as well as expensive ALD hearing technology) Many (if not most) oral deaf people also require the services of voke rehab...
I see what you're saying. You're saying that we need to give kids the tools to become independant in a hearing world. That's a great goal....however, even oral deaf people receive poor educations (the poor reading level is for ALL deaf people irregardless of commuication preference) and actually most oral deaf people are still struggling, not b/c they don't have access to the hearing world. Very few Deaf people are "pure ASL only" Many Deaf people didn't get access to the deaf-world until they were teens or even young adults! The big problem with oral deafness, is that while it seems like they achieve independance using hearing aids or CIs, it comes at a HUGE cost...that is they have increased healthcare costs due to being dependant on expensive technolgy. Sure, CIs are paid for by lots of insurance companies, but the rehab costs,(av therapy) the mappings and batteries (as well as assessories like FM devices ) may not be covered by insurance
Having increased health care costs is NOT GOOD...even hearing and otherwise healthy people have difficulty with health care costs!!!!
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Meg, So what you're saying is that only Signing Deaf people require services like that? Oral deaf people often require the services of interpreters(ever hear of oral interpreters or Cued Speech translitorators?) and services like CART (as well as expensive ALD hearing technology) Many (if not most) oral deaf people also require the services of voke rehab...
I see what you're saying. You're saying that we need to give kids the tools to become independant in a hearing world. That's a great goal....however, even oral deaf people receive poor educations (the poor reading level is for ALL deaf people irregardless of commuication preference) and actually most oral deaf people are still struggling, not b/c they don't have access to the hearing world. Very few Deaf people are "pure ASL only" Many Deaf people didn't get access to the deaf-world until they were teens or even young adults! The big problem with oral deafness, is that while it seems like they achieve independance using hearing aids or CIs, it comes at a HUGE cost...that is they have increased healthcare costs due to being dependant on expensive technolgy. Sure, CIs are paid for by lots of insurance companies, but the rehab costs,(av therapy) the mappings and batteries (as well as assessories like FM devices ) may not be covered by insurance

I am not saying that CI will be FIX IT ALL. It is just one of essential tools. I am just saying that we would not see schools for the deaf in decades from now on. We are already suffering from massive budget cuts. We will lose more than we ever had and yet we are not perfect yet. I am just saying that we will not have interpreters FREELY like we do now because it is costing so much. Either interpreters reduce their fees or the ADA folks will make amendment to it to avoid paying such costly fees.

Even collges are cutting back. During my days, I had BOTH - interpreter and a notetaker. Now they are forcing students to pick EITHER one hence most college students are not able to do extremely well had they have both choices.

It is just that these are becoming luxuries..not basic rights.
 
I am not saying that CI will be FIX IT ALL. It is just one of essential tools. I am just saying that we would not see schools for the deaf in decades from now on. We are already suffering from massive budget cuts. We will lose more than we ever had and yet we are not perfect yet. I am just saying that we will not have interpreters FREELY like we do now because it is costing so much. Either interpreters reduce their fees or the ADA folks will make amendment to it to avoid paying such costly fees.
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Yes, exactly. On the other hand, the cost of 'terps is nothing compared to the cost of technology! The cost of 'terps is NOTHING compared to the tution at oral schools! The cost of 'terps is NOTHING compared to the hours and hours of therapy, therapy, therapy! Yes, we are suffering from budget cuts? Big deal! There is something called the ADA! Maybe Shrub can quit spending money money money on exploding objects and war!
Even collges are cutting back. During my days, I had BOTH - interpreter and a notetaker. Now they are forcing students to pick EITHER one hence most college students are not able to do extremely well had they have both choices.

It is just that these are becoming luxuries..not basic rights.
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Was this a public college?
 
Me_Again said:
I've heard many times that Deaf children have an average reading level of about 5th grade (more or less). This isn't to say that many Deaf people haven't been able to get their doctorate degrees or such, but that some may have difficulty learning vocabulary and grammar because they can't hear the sounds the words make.

If this is true, do you think it would be helpful to get your child a CI? It might aid them in school.

**Don't jump on me...I'm just asking a question and trying to learn something.
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Good Question, allow me to say what about these European/Asian immigrants in your country don't bother to learn to read/write English, let alone talking!
They are not learning disabilities!

Also what about these dyslexic people too.
 
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