Not Deaf enough??

deafdyke

Well-Known Member
BINGO!!!!

This is exactly what "Not d/Deaf enough" mean.

VamPyrox came up with the better explanation of someone who does not understand what "Not d/Deaf enough" is. :cool2:
Not Deaf enough according to who thou? The definition is going to change.
People think Deaf= unaided, unimplanted, Sign only and K-12 allumn of a Deaf res school.... but that type of Deaf is pretty rare....
 

Bebonang

Active Member
Not Deaf enough according to who thou? The definition is going to change.
People think Deaf= unaided, unimplanted, Sign only and K-12 allumn of a Deaf res school.... but that type of Deaf is pretty rare....
I am talking about in the Deaf communities. I don't know about Deaf events but still it is the same what VamPyroX mentioned. It was like that in the old days. I don't care if that changed because of that. That is not the reason.

If the Hard Of Hearing and deaf people who refused to understand about Deaf Culture and not be able to sign ASL fluently, then that is what we mentioned to them that a person is not Deaf enough to be in our group.

With the CI, you believe everything change so that we can depend on hearing more and hearing people expected us to do the listening without lipreading and trying hard for them to talk like hearing people. That is not the way to go. If you or any other HOH including deaf people want to be in the Deaf Communities and Deaf events, then you have to show respect for Deaf Culture. We can accept them to be like Deaf or HOH people in our group.

I don't want the deaf and HOH people to be isolated but they have to come into our group so that it is comfortable and easier for them to communicate with us in ASL. Life would be much better and hopefully easier than being struggled without any accommodations and hearing social life for the d/Deaf and HOH.

That is what make me upset when hearing people try to "fix" deaf babies and children with CI. And then the parents refused to have them be involved with the Deaf communities as mentors including Deaf events. Why are they struggling still no matter what we tried to tell the hearing society? Geeze. :roll:
 

deafdyke

Well-Known Member
Beo, do you mean HOH as in "oral deaf"? Thing is they need to understand that generally acceptance is due to attitude. I know a lot of raised oral kids who feel accepted in the Deaf community, b/c they came in with the RIGHT attitude.... that they wanted to learn ASL, and discover the Deaf side of themselves......
 

VacationGuy234

Active Member
Has the culture of isolationism passed with the advent of more CI users at Gally? After all, that was the point Fernandes was trying to make. Does a person still need to be born deaf or reject all technology to be considered Deaf enough?
 

AlleyCat

Well-Known Member
Has the culture of isolationism passed with the advent of more CI users at Gally? After all, that was the point Fernandes was trying to make. Does a person still need to be born deaf or reject all technology to be considered Deaf enough?

You and I have actually posted (and disagreed) on this. I do not think you have to be born deaf in order to be Deaf as long as you embrace Deaf culture, and I have also said a Deaf person does not have to reject technology. I consider myself very Deaf, yet I wear HAs. I let nobody tell me what I identify myself as. Same as we say for everyone else here. You still embrace old-school thinking.
 

Bebonang

Active Member
You and I have actually posted (and disagreed) on this. I do not think you have to be born deaf in order to be Deaf as long as you embrace Deaf culture, and I have also said a Deaf person does not have to reject technology. I consider myself very Deaf, yet I wear HAs. I let nobody tell me what I identify myself as. Same as we say for everyone else here. You still embrace old-school thinking.
AlleyCat, that is exactly what I meant to learn, respect and embrace Deaf Culture. All we need is to use ASL in the Deaf Communities and Deaf Events. That would bridge the gap so that we can understand what we want to discuss or talk about. We love to communicate with ASL. If the HOH or deaf want to communicate with us without using the oral method. That would be a difficult time for us to understand their oral method. So hopefully yes, I would love for them to sign with ASL to communicate with us. You are right that has nothing to do with technologies.

ASL rocks and still going strong. :ty: :D
 

VacationGuy234

Active Member
You and I have actually posted (and disagreed) on this. I do not think you have to be born deaf in order to be Deaf as long as you embrace Deaf culture, and I have also said a Deaf person does not have to reject technology. I consider myself very Deaf, yet I wear HAs. I let nobody tell me what I identify myself as. Same as we say for everyone else here. You still embrace old-school thinking.
The thread is about, "not deaf enough". It's not about what a person identifies with personally. It's about how other people(or groups) identify a person. Obviously, the OP and others have experienced this, as you see it, mis-identification.

"We", do not disagree on this subject. But, again, that's not what the thread is about.

(EDIT (off topic note): If someone would like to make a thread about how Deaf welcome deaf, who don't sign, into the Deaf community, I think that would be a good thing.)
 
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This Wednesday will mark my SECOND class in ASL. I am 55 years old. I was HoH throughout most of my school years, gained a 'respite' by the time I was 13 via surgery: my hearing was rendered good enough to enable me to even join the Army at 18.

But during service, my hearing worsened again; and I have worn hearing aids since I was 23, after further surgery at a VA hospital actually cost me my hearing in one ear.

During grade school, I went through years of my parents, teachers and others attempting to determine what my difficulties were: was I vision-impaired? Learning-impaired? Did I need speech therapy? I was ten before someone realized I might have hearing issues. Obviously, the immediate solution, once my problem ,(or should I phrase that in quotations, my "problem"?), was identified, was surgery.

I was not only raised in an Oral culture: I was raised ignorant of the very existence of anything like a "Deaf Culture". One person I have read would classify me as a HoH 'Solitaire', someone cut off from the Deaf/HoH community and experience.

I am not entirely certain I realized that there were still people who used sign language as a regular means of communication-although I did teach myself to fingerspell, just to sharpen my skills as a 'secret agent'.

At 23, I went through three months of virtually complete deafness, at least within the spoken range of sound. But not even during that relatively brief period of time was I ever made aware of a subculture of Deaf people. Nor during four years of college at a regular, private university--studying SOCIOLOGY, a field oriented to the discovery and analysis of sub-cultures--was I aware of anything like "Deaf Culture".


The film, "Children of a Lesser God", followed a couple of years later by the "Deaf Prez Now" thing made me remotely more aware of the Deaf community---but by that time I was out of college, working, and getting along OK with hearing aids within the Hearing/Oral world. I was fully integrated as a Hearing person and in fact almost never even identified myself of job applications or other forms as 'disabled' or 'impaired'.

Practically the only time that my status as HoH was explicitly ever mentioned was when I tried to apply for a position in a correctional facility: I was told it would be 'unsafe' for both my prospective colleagues and myself if I could not hear well enough to detect an impending physical assault.

Fast-forward some 25 years: as I became aware a couple of years ago that my hearing in my remaining ear is declining, I happened to briefly interact with an interpreter at a client site which works with several Deaf employees. The 'Terp, realizing that I am HoH, encouraged me to consider learning ASL. My schedule in those days was irregular, but I filed away the idea as one of those things to put on my 'bucket list'. UNTIL THIS YEAR, when I landed a permanent and regular schedule at about the same time I learned of some affordable classes in ASL.

It was ONLY in prepping to take this class, about three months back or so, that I really became aware of 'Deaf Culture'. And I have to wonder: were my interests and my field of study not directly part of the social sciences, would I have paid any attention to the discussions in most books and websites on ASL about Deaf Culture? Would I have cared enough to have even noticed?

My point in all of this: a lot of people who come late to Deaf Culture do so because they are utterly ignorant for much of their lives that such a thing exists. For Deaf folks to be 'cliquish' and deliberately exclusionary toward late-deafened and late HoH folks is not really fair to the latecomers.

Of COURSE those of you who went to Deaf schools will share aspects of that experience unique to yourselves and not to those who went to mainstream schools or whatever. So do folks who go to Yale, or to Harvard, or to West Point, or to the USMC Boot Camp, etcetera.

Another thing: I attended a Deaf social this weekend, just a few days following my first ASL class. I met there a Hearing person, married to a mainstreamed Deaf woman whose ASL skills are somehat rigid (if I recollect rightly). He and she go to as many formal and/or public Deaf events as possible: but he noted, not resentfully but somewhat wistfully, that his wife and he are often 'left off' of invitations to more spontaneous, casual gatherings of Deaf folks in their area.

They are seen by other Deaf folks, even Deafies who account them personal friends, as somehow not quite 'Deaf enough'. And so, not always included in "Deaf' activities.

(I supposed there could be other things going on here--his wife has a number of health issues related to her Deafness, for example, and perhaps folks fear she often could not come or would not be able to enjoy the activities due to her limitations--but I sensed there was pain in the fact that they were often not even remembered or invited).

These are some of the consequences of a mentality that classes some people as 'not Deaf enough'.

Worth reflecting upon, methinks.

Those of us late to the party, so to speak, do need to try to learn and be respectful of Deaf people and Deaf culture. But Deafies would do well to try to be welcoming and helpful and understanding of what late-Deafened/HoH and Solitaire Deaf/HoH may have experienced by not having had early exposure to Deaf culture.
 

AlleyCat

Well-Known Member
The thread is about, "not deaf enough". It's not about what a person identifies with personally. It's about how other people(or groups) identify a person. Obviously, the OP and others have experienced this, as you see it, mis-identification.

"We", do not disagree on this subject. But, again, that's not what the thread is about.

(EDIT (off topic note): If someone would like to make a thread about how Deaf welcome deaf, who don't sign, into the Deaf community, I think that would be a good thing.)

Then the OP may be unfortunate enough to live in a community (close-minded) that considers her not Deaf enough. There's not a need for that.

Having said that, yes, you and I do disagree on this topic because you've said to me in the past that I'm not Deaf because I choose to wear HAs. Look at your old posts. Anyways I'm done here because I will not argue this with you. I feel very embraced by my Deaf community (where I live), nobody judges for technology.
 

VacationGuy234

Active Member
Having said that, yes, you and I do disagree on this topic because you've said to me in the past that I'm not Deaf because I choose to wear HAs. Look at your old posts. Anyways I'm done here because I will not argue this with you. I feel very embraced by my Deaf community (where I live), nobody judges for technology.
What I said was, you may think you are Deaf enough, but since true Deaf reject technology that is/was probably not the case.

If all that has changed, perhaps you can tell me what Deaf culture is about? Does Deaf culture now embrace technology? Is it OK to implant children? Is it OK to want to hear? And, if it is OK to want to hear, what is the basis of being Deaf?

To be clear, I feel there is a fundamental difference between Deaf and deaf. Based on what I have experienced. If I'm wrong about that, isn't everyone Deaf? Are we not "alldeaf"? I don't know about you, but I feel we have all gone through the same things. I really just wish all of us would understand that fact.
 

Swedeafa

Member
To me it should be perfectly ok to be bicultural. Being deaf to me means being a sign language user and to have knowledge and respect for the history of Deaf culture. However, to me this should not exclude using technology or wanting to hear. Wanting to hear is just a practical matter since it makes communication with hearing easier. Using technology does not influence identity. You can still be a visual person using sign language and you still see yourself and other deaf people as complete persons that are not "broken". Technology is just a practical tool and does not change who you are.

I think the Deaf society should welcome more persons that would like to be bicultural. I am hard of hearing and would love to be a really fluent sign language user, since it is much easier to me to access information visually. It is relaxing and fun not to have to rely sound all the time. But why should I not use the hearing I have left in situations where I communicate with people who do not know sign? I am not saying that everyone has to get a CI or other options, it is perfectly ok not to! But those who do, do not suddenly change identity. I think that it is very important that CI users and HOH get as much access to sign language and Deaf culture. It should not be required that everyone is only Deaf and nothing but Deaf. We can handle different identities in other cases - being a parent, having I professional role, being a team member in a soccer team and so on - so why should a Deaf identity exclude participation in a hearing world?
 

AlleyCat

Well-Known Member
What I said was, you may think you are Deaf enough, but since true Deaf reject technology that is/was probably not the case.
I *AM* Deaf, and Deaf enough. I will not have you telling me otherwise, as you have said repeatedly over the years that you are "new" to the d/Deaf world and culture, so where do you get off telling me that "I think I am Deaf enough is probably not the case." I don't care what you read out of some book.

The majority of Deaf people today wear/use some form of technology such as HAs, and even CI's. If "true" Deaf people, as you want to call it, reject technology, you then have to reject virtually every d/Deaf person that uses technology to communicate with others such as TTYs, VR, Relay, etc., because just about every d/Deaf person DOES use technology. Wow, I'm *smh* at your deliberate double-standard.
 

VacationGuy234

Active Member
The majority of Deaf people today wear/use some form of technology such as HAs, and even CI's. If "true" Deaf people, as you want to call it, reject technology, you then have to reject virtually every d/Deaf person that uses technology to communicate with others such as TTYs, VR, Relay, etc., because just about every d/Deaf person DOES use technology. Wow, I'm *smh* at your deliberate double-standard.
Actaully, that's is incorrect. The Deaf community never had an issue with TTY, VR, Relay, etc. The issue, as I understood it, was only with hearing technology. The idea that Deaf don't need that assistance.

By your standard, if someone knows sign then are already a part of Deaf culture, correct? By that reasoning, all it takes is to learn the language, right?
 

VacationGuy234

Active Member
To me it should be perfectly ok to be bicultural. Being deaf to me means being a sign language user and to have knowledge and respect for the history of Deaf culture. However, to me this should not exclude using technology or wanting to hear. Wanting to hear is just a practical matter since it makes communication with hearing easier. Using technology does not influence identity. You can still be a visual person using sign language and you still see yourself and other deaf people as complete persons that are not "broken". Technology is just a practical tool and does not change who you are.

I think the Deaf society should welcome more persons that would like to be bicultural. I am hard of hearing and would love to be a really fluent sign language user, since it is much easier to me to access information visually. It is relaxing and fun not to have to rely sound all the time. But why should I not use the hearing I have left in situations where I communicate with people who do not know sign? I am not saying that everyone has to get a CI or other options, it is perfectly ok not to! But those who do, do not suddenly change identity. I think that it is very important that CI users and HOH get as much access to sign language and Deaf culture. It should not be required that everyone is only Deaf and nothing but Deaf. We can handle different identities in other cases - being a parent, having I professional role, being a team member in a soccer team and so on - so why should a Deaf identity exclude participation in a hearing world?

Thank you for this post.
 

AlleyCat

Well-Known Member
Actaully, that's is incorrect. The Deaf community never had an issue with TTY, VR, Relay, etc. The issue, as I understood it, was only with hearing technology. The idea that Deaf don't need that assistance.
Actually, that is incorrect. The Deaf community never had an issue with TTY, VR, Relay, etc. The issue, as I understood it, was only with hearing technology. The idea that Deaf don't need that assistance.
Fixed your first sentence for you. (I would not normally dream of doing that, but you seem to want to incorrectly correct me.

The Deaf are not rejecting hearing technology either. (Maybe the exceptional person, like you.)

By your standard, if someone knows sign then are already a part of Deaf culture, correct? By that reasoning, all it takes is to learn the language, right?
No. But I'm not going to explain it to you any more.
 

soutthpaw

Active Member
VG. You obviously have no clue about the current Deaf culture and community. Bilingual and Bicultural is very common now. Also just cuz someone was not invited to an event does not have to mean they are not deaf enough. I recently met a Deaf man Fein deaf school and he was a chauvinist jerk. I would never invite him to any events I planned and would avoid talking to him at events if I saw him. Blaming it on not being deaf enough via 3 hand info is a real stretch.
 

VacationGuy234

Active Member
VG. You obviously have no clue about the current Deaf culture and community. Bilingual and Bicultural is very common now. Also just cuz someone was not invited to an event does not have to mean they are not deaf enough. I recently met a Deaf man Fein deaf school and he was a chauvinist jerk. I would never invite him to any events I planned and would avoid talking to him at events if I saw him. Blaming it on not being deaf enough via 3 hand info is a real stretch.
Unless I've missed it, the topic isn't about being invited to events. It's about membership. It's not about a place to meet; it's about whether you belong.

This isn't the first thread about it. And, at the time of the thread, there was a lot going on at Gally. Because of those events, the idea of who is Deaf and who is not became an intense topic. Even today, years later and on all media(not just here) it's still a hot topic. I think it is something to be discussed because unless we understand the reason for it, it can't be overcome it. We could go to all the events in the world, but that wouldn't mean we are united.

Should a non-deaf president lead the deaf? If not, what qualifies a deaf president? That was the issue at the time of the post. That's the topic of the thread, I believe.
 

Swedeafa

Member
Unless I've missed it, the topic isn't about being invited to events. It's about membership. It's not about a place to meet; it's about whether you belong.

This isn't the first thread about it. And, at the time of the thread, there was a lot going on at Gally. Because of those events, the idea of who is Deaf and who is not became an intense topic. Even today, years later and on all media(not just here) it's still a hot topic. I think it is something to be discussed because unless we understand the reason for it, it can't be overcome it. We could go to all the events in the world, but that wouldn't mean we are united.

Should a non-deaf president lead the deaf? If not, what qualifies a deaf president? That was the issue at the time of the post. That's the topic of the thread, I believe.
Thanks for the background, it clarifies a lot!
 
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