Mother of 7 y/o Deaf girl

peekaboo

Active Member
Sooooo...... a HEARING PERSON WHO SPEAKS AND HEARS HAS BETTER A "LIFE" THAN THE DEAF/HOH SIMPLY BECAUSE YOU THINK HEARING PEOPLE ARE BETTER IN ENGLISH SKILLS? BUWAHAHAHAHA... YOU HAVE FALLEN OFF THE WAGON AND HT YOUR HEAD!! BUWAHAHAHAHA... BUWAHAHAHHA...
I DON'T EXPECT YOU TO FULLY UNDERSTAND WHATS REALLY IS LIKE TO BE DEAF/HOH. And I know you do too.

I find it OFFENSIVE that YOU THINK that the DEAF/HOH level of reading, math, and ALL that other stuff you "hearing teachers" think WE are NOT UP to YOUR LEVEL OF "THINKING, AND LEARNING." Your thinking is very limited no matter how many master degrees you have.
The Deaf/HOH has been around for thousands of years and still fully function with or without the hearing community.

DO YOU REALIZE THAT YOU ARE PUTTING HEARING PEOPLE ABOVE THE DEAF/HOH COMMUNITY! HOW DARE YOU!
Here is the thing with you hearing people and your English skills...
1.) Hearing people have to write a full sentence to understand and comprehend what you are talking about.
2.) DeAF/HOH can write a few words in ASL and or in writing form and still understand what we are talking about.
we don't need to write a full sentence to understand each other. We are SMARTER THAN hearing people. Just because we dont write in full sentence doesn't mean we don't understand English grammar. As a matter of fact, we got you beat by 100 miles!

I can see clearly now that you put hearing people on a pedestal.

When Father in Heaven made the Earth, He spoke one word ... ONE WORD. Abba Father didn't have to use a full sentence to get his point across. Neither does the deaf/hoh.
 
Sooooo...... a HEARING PERSON WHO SPEAKS AND HEARS HAS BETTER A "LIFE" THAN THE DEAF/HOH SIMPLY BECAUSE YOU THINK HEARING PEOPLE ARE BETTER IN ENGLISH SKILLS? BUWAHAHAHAHA... YOU HAVE FALLEN OFF THE WAGON AND HT YOUR HEAD!! BUWAHAHAHAHA... BUWAHAHAHHA...
I DON'T EXPECT YOU TO FULLY UNDERSTAND WHATS REALLY IS LIKE TO BE DEAF/HOH. And I know you do too.

I find it OFFENSIVE that YOU THINK that the DEAF/HOH level of reading, math, and ALL that other stuff you "hearing teachers" think WE are NOT UP to YOUR LEVEL OF "THINKING, AND LEARNING." Your thinking is very limited no matter how many master degrees you have.
The Deaf/HOH has been around for thousands of years and still fully function with or without the hearing community.

DO YOU REALIZE THAT YOU ARE PUTTING HEARING PEOPLE ABOVE THE DEAF/HOH COMMUNITY! HOW DARE YOU!
Here is the thing with you hearing people and your English skills...
1.) Hearing people have to write a full sentence to understand and comprehend what you are talking about.
2.) DeAF/HOH can write a few words in ASL and or in writing form and still understand what we are talking about.
we don't need to write a full sentence to understand each other. We are SMARTER THAN hearing people. Just because we dont write in full sentence doesn't mean we don't understand English grammar. As a matter of fact, we got you beat by 100 miles!

I can see clearly now that you put hearing people on a pedestal.

When Father in Heaven made the Earth, He spoke one word ... ONE WORD. Abba Father didn't have to use a full sentence to get his point across. Neither does the deaf/hoh.
No, that isn't what I said.Not at all. Not even close.
 

zeefour

Active Member
No, the fact is that the average student with hearing loss is not achieving at the same level as the average hearing student. One in five deaf students graduate high school with a reading level at or below the second grade. One in three graduate reading at between the second and fourth grade level.
These dismal stats are directly correlated with decades of oralism, the very system that you advocate. DHH children's literacy is stunted because English is forced on them as an L1 and they cannot naturally acquire it like their hearing peers. No matter how many CIs, HAs and other attempts to make DHH children "hear" so they can learn English as their L1, still puts them at a disadvantage compared to their hearing peers. You don't understand how much you can't hear with a HA. ASL on the other hand is a full language DHH children can naturally acquire in a way comparable to their hearing pers who hear English and learn that as their L1. Like it or not DHH children naturally have visual capabilities and you should work with these natural abilities as opposed to trying to "fix" us and make us "hear" not realizing we're still at a disadvantage. When ASL is an L1 for DHH kids at an early age, their capability to learn written English as their L2 is a much higher level. This is basic tenant of ELA teaching and theory.

There's no arguing with you. I literally quote your words when you deny things I've said about your beliefs. You're like a little kid covering their eyes and ears and saying "nah nah nah nah I can't hear/see you no I didn't!"

The reason DHH students have those dismal stats is because of people like YOU. Hearing teachers who go into DHH education to feel superior because of inadequacies in their own lives. They come into the world of DHH children and insist that spoken English like what they use is the only acceptable manner. You put an amazing amount of effort into forcing a verbal language on kids who CANNOT HEAR. You're so high and mighty you don't even understand that all the gadgets in the world cannot make a DHH child hear like a hearing child. You've never bothered to ask your students or put yourself in their place. Instead you get together with other hearing educators, reading papers from hearing researchers and perpetuate your belief that you can only be intelligent if you use verbal English. You said it yourself, you don't use sign, you don't know signed English, yet you insist ASL is inferior to English.

People like you are a plague on the DHH world. You take young children from hearing families and force HAs and CIs on them, force them to talk and "hear", you don't let them explore the value of being Deaf and expose them to the Deaf community. You see DHH as an illness or a disability that needs fixed.

I'm half Native Hawai'ian. You're no different than the white Americans who came, illegally overthrew our queen, eliminated our culture saying it was barbaric and forced their own white Western Christian culture on us instead to civilize us. You're the equivalent of the whites who then forced native children into schools where they had white culture forced on them and their native culture beat out of them. They thought it was for our "own good" too.

The road to hell is paved with "good" intentions.

I plan on finding out where you teach and filing a complaint against the school board/district, informing families of your bias, anything I can do to try to help the poor young DHH kids that your influence will hurt.
 

peekaboo

Active Member
Zeefour: I am so sorry that the Europeans did that to your people. They do not know any better. I pray that we learn from our mistakes and ask for forgiveness. Your people deserved better!
 

zeefour

Active Member
Zeefour: I am so sorry that the Europeans did that to your people. They do not know any better. I pray that we learn from our mistakes and ask for forgiveness. Your people deserved better!
Mahalo! (Thank you in Hawai'ian :) ) It's not your fault and I don't blame or feel angry towards haoles (white people), I mean my mom is haole, I'm hapa haole (half white half native) I think education and awareness is what's important.

It's frustrating to see the same people who stripped my ancestors of their culture, are the ones who now profit off commodifying it. Like the LDS (or Mormons) were the first missionaries who came to convert us away from our heathen lifestyles. Their descendants became large land owners within only a generation or two, owning massive businesses and being quite wealthy and powerful from the land their parents and grandparents took from us because we were not capable their eyes of having the responsibility, they were far superior and therefore were the natural God chosen elite. They were the ones who demanded the US military/government overthrow our queen and monarchy illegally and after assuring they respected our sovereignty, because they were afraid natives would rise up and overthrow their businesses. Now this very day the Polynesian Cultural Center, a massive tourist attraction, isn't run by Natives but by the LDS church and it's for profit. We still have no ownership of our own culture.

Just being aware and educating yourself and things like that that are important.

Because of this history I don't blame my dad for being hesitant about any educational option for me that involved sending me away to a school when I was young.

As Deaf/HoH individuals, our culture has had similar hardships. Decades of residential schools where sign language was banned and beaten out of children and oralism was forced, is similar to what many indigenous peoples faced from Australia to Canada to the US.
 
Zeefour: I am so sorry that the Europeans did that to your people. They do not know any better. I pray that we learn from our mistakes and ask for forgiveness. Your people deserved better!
YOU will find this is common in the deaf community. There is a loathing of the "hearing privileged" as we are called.
I have studied deaf culture and it wasn't just Europeans, it happened all over the world. Deaf people were called deaf and dumb, meaning the could not speak thus mute. The connotation was lacking intelligence, as hearing people believed that deafness and inability to speak were believed to be due to a lack of intelligence. Which of course was and is totally incorrect.
However, Many deaf people who do not hear with a CI or HA and/or cannot speak still hold today's hearing culture responsible.

Similar to being racist against them. However, I work with the deaf and join in their community, my coworker is nonverbal, she was born deaf. In the beginning and still after over a year I am the only employee who can communicate using ASL, others choose not to communicate, send emails, write notes.

As my sign ability became better, my coworker no longer wanted to sign to me. She felt threatened because she thought that I could take her position.

It was very saddening for me. Ppl who are born deaf have cognitive dysfunction far higher than the hearing population. In addition, they are mistrusting of the hearing.

However, those who learn spoken word with ASL can function in either world.

The deaf community will often not accept people with CI, hearing aids, or the HH. I'm attending school in a hub of deaf activity and I have seen the deaf be extremely negative to hearing, HH, CO users and HA users.

It is a fact, they view those unlike them often as the enemy. Fortunately I work with many deaf people who are not like this, do not gravitate toward such hatred and welcome ppl who are willing to learn their language.

The most successful people I know were taught vocal first then ASL. They are able to openly communicate, are comfortable as they are, do very well in school because English is their first language. My friend received a BS degree but she cannot write a correct sentence in English. In ASL there are no articles, no punctuation, ASL is an art of signing and displaying emotion. It is very hard to learn. I would suggest written English and ASL at the same time. The desire to have a CI or be verbal may be a choice. Of course that is up to parents, and please don't ever let a teacher tell you what to do. You have choices and so does your child.
 

peekaboo

Active Member
Zeefour: Thank you for that beautiful insight. You are beautiful inside and out. I pray more people like you are more forgiving of us that did this to your people. We had no right to do that. I am grateful for your friendship :) Deaf or hoh with HAs... We all want to be accepted no matter who they are. right? :) And you are right about everything you said. We did force our culture on your people.

Sheltiemama: Thank you, while I do understand what you are trying to say, not all but most Deaf people have the right to feel that way, you have to understand why.. Imagine being black and being mistreated for thousands of years just because they were black, its that way with the deaf. And being HOH is no easy picnic... being trapped in both worlds is really hard. People say those who can hear some should count their blessings... Maybe they should, but ... it has a price and that price is trying to fit in when you dont't fit in either the D/deaf nor the hearing world.

I met a lot of D/deaf and hoh in my lifetime to see and know how we treat each other and sometimes we can't stand each other and sometimes we just look at each other and truly get one another, either way, we know the struggles. I look at a D/deaf person and truly see a human being. Others don't see them that way, they see a D/deaf person who moves its hand and that scares the fright out of them. It's the same with black / brown people, they were made to be different, to stand out. We have come to long ways and for the most part, deep down, I have been around hearing people to know what they are like. And how they feed off their vibes unto us as if they are more superior to us. That bothers me! Especially for example my HA.. If I don't have it on, and they know it, they are like... " Put your hearing aid on." As if I was a child and don't know any better. That bothers me. I know it shouldn't, but they should know by now after so many years wearing it, I don't need someone to tell me I need to put on my HA. This is beside the point... My point is this, hearing people need to really LISTEN to us instead of TELLING us what needs to be done for their benefit and LET US be US. WHY CAN'T they do that?? It is really a white/superior thing? I don;t know. It bugs me, big time.

P.S. If I had my way as a child, I wouldn't have worn my HA all these years and just be Deaf the way Father made me.
technology is good, but not when it changes the person's personality and trait as a person and as a whole.
 

deafdyke

Well-Known Member
[QUOTE="
I met a lot of D/deaf and hoh in my lifetime to see and know how we treat each other and sometimes we can't stand each other and sometimes we just look at each other and truly get one another, either way, we know the struggles. I look at a D/deaf person and truly see a human being. Others don't see them that way, they see a D/deaf person who moves its hand and that scares the fright out of them. It's the same with black / brown people, they were made to be different, to stand out. We have come to long ways and for the most part, deep down, I have been around hearing people to know what they are like. And how they feed off their vibes unto us as if they are more superior to us. That bothers me! Especially for example my HA.. If I don't have it on, and they know it, they are like... " Put your hearing aid on." As if I was a child and don't know any better. That bothers me. I know it shouldn't, but they should know by now after so many years wearing it, I don't need someone to tell me I need to put on my HA. This is beside the point... My point is this, hearing people need to really LISTEN to us instead of TELLING us what needs to be done for their benefit and LET US be US. WHY CAN'T they do that?? It is really a white/superior thing? I don;t know. It bugs me, big time.

P.S. If I had my way as a child, I wouldn't have worn my HA all these years and just be Deaf the way Father made me.
technology is good, but not when it changes the person's personality and trait as a person and as a whole.[/QUOTE]
Here's my thinking. Dhh kids (except for the small number who don't/can't speak) should be bombarded with speech, Sign, and Cued Speech so THEY have the choice as to what works BEST for THEM. I've met kids who are bombarded with choices...some of them chose to be oral or mainstreamed etc
 

deafdyke

Well-Known Member
No, the fact is that the average student with hearing loss is not achieving at the same level as the average hearing student. One in five deaf students graduate high school with a reading level at or below the second grade. One in three graduate reading at between the second and fourth grade level.
Yes exactly. The average student with hearing loss is ORAL and mainstreamed. Very few Sign exclusively or even at all or even get to attend a program for dhh kids.
 
These dismal stats are directly correlated with decades of oralism, the very system that you advocate. DHH children's literacy is stunted because English is forced on them as an L1 and they cannot naturally acquire it like their hearing peers. No matter how many CIs, HAs and other attempts to make DHH children "hear" so they can learn English as their L1, still puts them at a disadvantage compared to their hearing peers. You don't understand how much you can't hear with a HA. ASL on the other hand is a full language DHH children can naturally acquire in a way comparable to their hearing pers who hear English and learn that as their L1. Like it or not DHH children naturally have visual capabilities and you should work with these natural abilities as opposed to trying to "fix" us and make us "hear" not realizing we're still at a disadvantage. When ASL is an L1 for DHH kids at an early age, their capability to learn written English as their L2 is a much higher level. This is basic tenant of ELA teaching and theory.

There's no arguing with you. I literally quote your words when you deny things I've said about your beliefs. You're like a little kid covering their eyes and ears and saying "nah nah nah nah I can't hear/see you no I didn't!"

The reason DHH students have those dismal stats is because of people like YOU. Hearing teachers who go into DHH education to feel superior because of inadequacies in their own lives. They come into the world of DHH children and insist that spoken English like what they use is the only acceptable manner. You put an amazing amount of effort into forcing a verbal language on kids who CANNOT HEAR. You're so high and mighty you don't even understand that all the gadgets in the world cannot make a DHH child hear like a hearing child. You've never bothered to ask your students or put yourself in their place. Instead you get together with other hearing educators, reading papers from hearing researchers and perpetuate your belief that you can only be intelligent if you use verbal English. You said it yourself, you don't use sign, you don't know signed English, yet you insist ASL is inferior to English.

People like you are a plague on the DHH world. You take young children from hearing families and force HAs and CIs on them, force them to talk and "hear", you don't let them explore the value of being Deaf and expose them to the Deaf community. You see DHH as an illness or a disability that needs fixed.

I'm half Native Hawai'ian. You're no different than the white Americans who came, illegally overthrew our queen, eliminated our culture saying it was barbaric and forced their own white Western Christian culture on us instead to civilize us. You're the equivalent of the whites who then forced native children into schools where they had white culture forced on them and their native culture beat out of them. They thought it was for our "own good" too.

The road to hell is paved with "good" intentions.

I plan on finding out where you teach and filing a complaint against the school board/district, informing families of your bias, anything I can do to try to help the poor young DHH kids that your influence will hurt.
If any of what you said was true, you could easily point to data that backs you up. If you would provide me the research that says that kids who have ASL as their L1 do better than those who have English as their L1, I would be more than willing to read it. I have already provided you with two longitudinal studies that say exactly the opposite.

For the twentieth time, I don't make these decisions, families do. I provide services after they have decided. I believe that family choice should be supported, whether it is the choice I would make or not.
 

peekaboo

Active Member
Yes exactly. The average student with hearing loss is ORAL and mainstreamed. Very few Sign exclusively or even at all or even get to attend a program for dhh kids.
Most who are HOH are in mainstream schools. This is a mistake. They need to be with their peers so that they will feel welcome as a whole and not be put in hearing schools where they miss out on so much. HA doe not make them hearing! It just simply doesnt and they will think otherwise!!!!!! I wished that I had gone to a deaf school where I feel belonged. *sighs*
They are never going to get it!
 

Jane B.

Well-Known Member
Most who are HOH are in mainstream schools. This is a mistake. They need to be with their peers so that they will feel welcome as a whole and not be put in hearing schools where they miss out on so much. HA doe not make them hearing! It just simply doesn't and they will think otherwise!!!!!! I wished that I had gone to a deaf school where I feel belonged. *sighs*
They are never going to get it!
And what about the ones that it gets them very close and then they object to having to go to a different school than the other kids from the neighborhood that they play with when not in school?

I was completey deaf in one ear but had very good hearing in the other ear all through my school years and I know I was happy in my neighborhood school during grade school and the regular high school that was the only high school in town. I was the only one that I knew of having any loss. This was many years ago as I started 1st grade in 1948.
 
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peekaboo

Active Member
And what about the ones that it gets time very close and then they object to having to go to a different school than the other kids from the neighborhood that they play with when not in school?

I was deaf in one ear but very good in the other ear all through my school years and I know I was happy in my neighborhood school during grade school and the regular high school that was the only high school in town. I was the only one that I knew of having any loss. This was many years ago as I started 1st grade in 1948.
How did you cope? I can't imagine not being able to be around others like me and not feel left out. I went to a jr high school at one year and I was the ONLY one deaf at that school and THEY totally made fun of me, So I had to act silly and stupid just to feel "fit in" that was a mistake.
 

Jane B.

Well-Known Member
How did you cope? I can't imagine not being able to be around others like me and not feel left out. I went to a jr high school at one year and I was the ONLY one deaf at that school and THEY totally made fun of me, So I had to act silly and stupid just to feel "fit in" that was a mistake.
Nothing special. I did all the same things that the other kids did except make it a point to sit close to where the teacher was going to be doing most of her or his talking from. One teacher in high school used a blackboard at the side of the room most of the time so I sat on that side of the room.

At that time the grade schools here were true neighborhood schools with grades 1 through 8 in each building. The largest in any one class was about 30 kids at most so at most 240 in the building with most a bit under that. That means you got to know all the kids in your grade school class pretty darn well and not just have contact during the school day.

Also remember I am talking about from 69 to to 58 years ago so maybe attitudes were somewhat different.
 

peekaboo

Active Member
Nothing special. I did all the same things that the other kids did except make it a point to sit close to where the teacher was going to be doing most of her or his talking from. One teacher in high school used a blackboard at the side of the room most of the time so I sat on that side of the room.

At that time the grade schools here were true neighborhood schools with grades 1 through 8 in each building. The largest in any one class was about 30 kids at most so at most 240 in the building with most a bit under that. That means you got to know all the kids in your grade school class pretty darn well and not just have contact during the school day.

Also, remember I am talking about from 69 to to 58 years ago so maybe attitudes were somewhat different.
I guess back then it was not as harsh as it was in my generation. this was in the 70's and 80's. SO I guess time has changed, nowadays, I just don't know anymore. I guess it depends on what kind of school you went to during those times. Perhaps kids arent taught, they should be taught in all schools that Bullying is A NO NO. But even teachers bully too.

But what didnt kill me, made me stronger :)
 

Jane B.

Well-Known Member
I guess back then it was not as harsh as it was in my generation. this was in the 70's and 80's. SO I guess time has changed, nowadays, I just don't know anymore. I guess it depends on what kind of school you went to during those times. Perhaps kids aren't taught, they should be taught in all schools that Bullying is A NO NO. But even teachers bully too.

But what didn't kill me, made me stronger :)
I can't help but think that the number of kids in any one building and the fact that they came from an area around that was close enough that they also played together outside of school during their grade school years made a difference.

They are currently reassigning classes so that all of the kids in certain grades will be in the same building. I do wonder how that will work out. My understanding is that it will make sharing of certain tech and such easier.
 

peekaboo

Active Member
I can't help but think that the number of kids in any one building and the fact that they came from an area around that was close enough that they also played together outside of school during their grade school years made a difference.

They are currently reassigning classes so that all of the kids in certain grades will be in the same building. I do wonder how that will work out. My understanding is that it will make sharing of certain tech and such easier.
It's time to put pass the stereotypes behind and start treating each other with respect. No matter who you are. JS

We have come a long way and I just want all of us to get along with one another and to be able to accept all people as a whole and not because someone is different that should be treated differently.
 

zeefour

Active Member
YOU will find this is common in the deaf community. There is a loathing of the "hearing privileged" as we are called.
I have studied deaf culture and it wasn't just Europeans, it happened all over the world. Deaf people were called deaf and dumb, meaning the could not speak thus mute. The connotation was lacking intelligence, as hearing people believed that deafness and inability to speak were believed to be due to a lack of intelligence. Which of course was and is totally incorrect.
However, Many deaf people who do not hear with a CI or HA and/or cannot speak still hold today's hearing culture responsible.

Similar to being racist against them. However, I work with the deaf and join in their community, my coworker is nonverbal, she was born deaf. In the beginning and still after over a year I am the only employee who can communicate using ASL, others choose not to communicate, send emails, write notes.

As my sign ability became better, my coworker no longer wanted to sign to me. She felt threatened because she thought that I could take her position.

It was very saddening for me. Ppl who are born deaf have cognitive dysfunction far higher than the hearing population. In addition, they are mistrusting of the hearing.

However, those who learn spoken word with ASL can function in either world.

The deaf community will often not accept people with CI, hearing aids, or the HH. I'm attending school in a hub of deaf activity and I have seen the deaf be extremely negative to hearing, HH, CO users and HA users.

It is a fact, they view those unlike them often as the enemy. Fortunately I work with many deaf people who are not like this, do not gravitate toward such hatred and welcome ppl who are willing to learn their language.

The most successful people I know were taught vocal first then ASL. They are able to openly communicate, are comfortable as they are, do very well in school because English is their first language. My friend received a BS degree but she cannot write a correct sentence in English. In ASL there are no articles, no punctuation, ASL is an art of signing and displaying emotion. It is very hard to learn. I would suggest written English and ASL at the same time. The desire to have a CI or be verbal may be a choice. Of course that is up to parents, and please don't ever let a teacher tell you what to do. You have choices and so does your child.
There is so much wrong with what you wrote I don't know where to begin....

1) The European comment @peekaboo made was about my story about my kanaka maoli (Native Hawai'ian) ancestors being mistreated. It was a comparison to how DHH students are treated in oral schools. Not that only Europeans treat DHH wrong.

2) "Ppl who are born deaf have cognitive dysfunction far higher than the hearing population."

What.the.f.... Where are your sources for this? Your story about being "mistreated" once by a DHH person because you are hearing does not count. I'm sorry that happened to you but that in no way is a comparison to what DHH experience by the hearing world. Is your language and culture called dumb and lesser than? Are you discriminated in employment? Do people who have no idea what it's like to be like in your comparison insist on getting jobs dealing with your people,, go into your houses starting when you're children and propagate their patronization? Do these people get involved in the education you need and implement systems that keep your people stunted and then use this as proof your lesser than? Definitely in no way the same sorry.

And going on about how mean DHH people are to hearing people... have you ever considered it's because you say things like we have far higher cognitive dysfunction than you?

3) "People who are taught vocal then ASL are more successful." Again your handful of ignorant personal experiences don't count. If a person was born profoundly Deaf no way were they taught "vocal" first then ASL. If they were subjected to auditory oral methods (this is the proper word for it not vocal) it's far more likely that their literacy and language development are far less.

You're a hearing person. The few DHH people you've met probably have learned to live in a hearing world. You don't know the thousands of DHH people who use ASL only and are doctors, professors etc.

4) Your description of ASL as being lesser than English and proof of someone not being as intelligent as English users is soooooo wrong. ASL has all the components that make up a complete language just like English. It's not lesser than it's different. All those grammatical components and syntax DO exist in ASL, they're just mostly conveyed in a visual way.


I'm a HoH individual, I was mainstreamed my whole life, I use HAs and I talk. Most of my friends are hearing, I'm not one of those militant Deafies that give DHH activists a bad name (I had an ASL professor my first year of college like this, he treated me like crap for being a "traitor" and talking and having HAs like I had a choice of my educational methods as a child).

That said, some of the things you've said here do upset me. Not because you're hearing, but because you're making really ignorant, insulting and incorrect claims and statements about ASL and the Deaf community. I'm not trying to insult you and further cement your idea that DHH people who are in favor of ASL hate hearing people. But I'm not going to pussyfoot around your feelings because what you said is really insulting and hurtful. I do invite you to correct these assumptions and learn more. Please get information about Deaf culture from Deaf people not other hearing people who work in Deaf ed and things like that. I'd be happy to answer your questions more thoroughly. But please do some reflection about the cognitively dysfunctional hateful DHH people who hate hearing people and that maybe some of these people were just hurt and insulted by things you said