Lip movement in deaf/interpreters

Discussion in 'Sign Language & Deaf Education' started by Waxy, Aug 21, 2009.

  1. Waxy

    Waxy New Member

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    There are a lot of controversial issues when an interpreter does their job here, in argentina.
    I'm reading here, it seems some issues are similar (wich makes me think they're issues reagarding all sign languages)

    One specifically, is lip movement.

    Some interpreters say that we shoudlnt move our lips, that "deaf dont move their lips"... then again, i asked always to deaf what to do in orther to make them feel comfortable with my signing, and most either they dont care, or its better to move.
    At aslpro, in the FAQ, we found this (i quote)

    This leads me to think that, obviously, you ppl there move their lips, or at least, some do (otherwise wouldnt be reason for the question)
    What do you think about this? how the american deaf signs? do you move your lips? it depends?

    For instance. For some, lip moving is associated to do it to basic, or non educated deaf.

    Im very interested in your opinions regarding this matter.
     
  2. souggy

    souggy New Member

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    I don't move my lips while signing because often I can't see other people's lips as a Deaf-blind-- so my behaviour is copied from what I can see from other people's. However I do prefer to have an interpreter who can enunciate while they sign. Why? Often times I can't see the speaker's lips, but I can read the interpreter's and having complete access to sign language and lip-reading is necessary for me as a person with low vision to make up for the information I don't pick up what a fully sighted person would.

    I am one of the few people where reading, hearing the language, seeing ASL/PSE and lip-reading is necessary for me to get the full access to information.

    Although the impression I get from the interpreter services up here is that it is done on a client-to-client basis.
     
  3. Waxy

    Waxy New Member

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    thanks souggy!

    Some ppl say here, that an interpreter gets closer to be "deaf" if we don't move our lips...
    Some, for instace, enunciate half of the word.
    In english is different, becaus you have usually short words, but in spanish, for instance would be-

    english: person
    spanish: persona
    interpreter enunciate: perso

    i find it weird :hmm:
     
  4. souggy

    souggy New Member

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    I have the same observation as well. Sorry for the history lesson, but it's to outline what people do with certain words: in term of words that is rooted in Anglo-Saxon and ancient Norse (everyday words or "short words" you have described), yes, they do tend to enunciate the full word. It's a different matter when it come to Latin and Greek-rooted words (religious, philosophy, science and legal) since they sometimes only enunciate the first few phonetics. Words that are of Arabic (tends to be mathematics and astronomy) and French (cooking, legal, government) origins either get half-arsed or fully enunciated.
     
  5. Waxy

    Waxy New Member

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    nice...
    more opinions please! :dance2:
     
  6. Etoile

    Etoile New Member

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    I'm not sure what you're asking about. Are you talking about mouth morphemes, which are a natural part of ASL, or are you talking about mouthing words for people who prefer to lipread in addition to viewing the signs?
     
  7. Waxy

    Waxy New Member

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    that's an interesting question, since is the first time i've read about this.
    im not sure ive got them in LSA.

    basically we have 2 positions here.
    the deaf that thinks is not "from deaf" to move the lips, and the deaf that thinks is usefull for interpreters, to move our lips.

    now.
    im ive noticed that sometimes they do move thy lips, and sometimes they dont.
    im still not sure what's NATURAL for the deaf...(and still not sure how really want the deaf to interpreters to become "as closer to be deaf as possible"...

    regarding the "mouth morphemes in ASL", pls tell me about so i tell you if im talking about it or not.
     
  8. Reba

    Reba Retired Terp Premium Member

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    Mouth morphemes and mouthing words are two totally separate behaviors.

    Mouth morphemes are some of the non-manual markers that are used in ASL grammar. Other non-manual markers are head tilts, shoulder raises, and eyebrow movements. They are used mostly as modifiers to the signs that are being used. They are not the English words that are being interpreted.

    When people speak (silently or audibly) the English words that are being interpreted while signing at the same time, that is commonly called "mouthing". Not the same as using mouth morphemes.

    Signers who are more strongly ASL on the sign language continuum tend to use more mouth morphemes and fewer mouthed words. Signers who are more English and oral tend to use fewer morphemes and more mouthed words.

    In America, if a deaf person is signing ASL, you will notice lots of non-manual markers (including the mouth morphemes) being used, in addition to "expressiveness". Rarely will you see a tight-lipped ASL signer.

    In America, if a deaf person is signing PSE or English manual codes, you will notice few (if any) non-manual markers but many "mouthed" or spoken words used simultaneously with the signs.

    That's not to say someone will be 100% one way or the other. It depends on the individual's preference.

    There are books, videos, and DVDs about mouth morphemes and ASL grammar.

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msNE0E1K9pY&mode=related&search]YouTube - ASL - NMS: "CHA" "MMM" "OOO"[/ame]

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akvVqb_3yyQ&NR=1[/ame]
     
  9. Chuck

    Chuck New Member

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    Some deaf kids can mouth their words. I prefer if my interpreters also mouthed words. Kind of appalling it's a controversy in the first place. What a bunch of touchy feely people. Should come down to preference of the people the interpreter is working for. If they want him/her to mouth words or not. Of course there might be diversity in the audience so people that like it, should get preference, since it is about understanding better. Deaf people can just pay attention to the hand signs, ignore the lips. Does your interpreter have full lips and is voluptous, hard to focus? If so, pass me along her number.
     
  10. rockin'robin

    rockin'robin Well-Known Member

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    Signing, along with moving the lips/mouth, is a must for me.....As I read lips and watch the signs at the same time....

    I cannot understand anyone who signs without using facial expressions/mouthing the words, etc.
     
  11. Cheri

    Cheri Prayers for my dad. Premium Member

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    I'm exactly the same way, it's a must for me too, because there are many signers that sign differently and it's easier for me to read their lips/mouth and signs the same time to get the understanding of what they are really telling me. ;)
     
  12. Waxy

    Waxy New Member

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    this is fantastic, and revealing. i'll investigate more about this.
    thanks!
     
  13. Waxy

    Waxy New Member

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    ho-key...
    So.
    To sumarize.
    Deaf (in America, at least) perform in a natural way some kind of movement, but it's specific and natural.

    We, as intepreters, should learn this, (in order to do it naturally) BUT also, talk to the Deaf we're communicating with, and get an understanding on what's their prefference.

    I'll investigate if this "Mouth morphemes" exists here.
     
  14. LuciaDisturbed

    LuciaDisturbed New Member

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    I am Deaf and never learned to speak but for some reason I still find that I prefer for all interpreters to mouth words simultaneously while interpreting so that if there is a same sign that is used for different words/etc I can tell which word it is by looking at their lips and seeing the obvious lip shapes so there are less misunderstanding that way. I've had a history of misunderstanding deaf people who never move their lips and sign only...and then I end up getting the totally wrong idea and not realize that the person I was speaking to meant something entirely else...it creates big-time misunderstandings and a lot of confusion. When I have an interpreter for like a doc's appt I ask the interpreter to please mouth everything while signing, it helps me understand things clearly. So, yes, I lipread while people sign....I cannot lipread on my own without signs, but with signing I can lipread somewhat well because I catch the obvious parts of the words. But if the person doesn't sign at all or doesn't mouth words at all I'm lost. I like for BOTH to be used together.
     
  15. Waxy

    Waxy New Member

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    Highly apreciated your thoughts... :)
     
  16. Waxy

    Waxy New Member

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    Ok
    Investigated about this, and argentinean Deaf got them.
    Although, LSA isnt that studied as ASL (ASL is the most studied signed language ever)

    Thanks for the info. Ive learned a lot.
     

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