Discussion in 'Sign Language & Deaf Education' started by Southern, Feb 16, 2007.
Is there a sign for "glamorous" or do you have to fingerspell it?
If I had to sign that word, I would act it out instead, evoking an emotional response that it is indeed glamorous. An important sign to be used with my acting would be "fancy" but with both hands, with pursed lips blowing out and slightly lowered eyebrows.
That's the problem with ASL... their vocabulary is very limited. Instead, the sign for a similar word is used instead.
Hey what about a sign for "traitor"?
I have a story that involves a deaf character and the word "traitor" is used a lot. But I can't find a sign for that word anywhere. It have been driving me crazy .
You can use the sign with classifiers that look like stabbing someone in the back.
Non-dominant hand indexer ("1" hand), upright, facing away from signer.
Dominant hand "S" fist, thumb-side up.
Dominant hand "stabs" non-dominant index with quick downward stroke (with appropriate expression).
I know that's what I'm thinking too.. like the limited language will not go too far in the outside world.. I use to use the right words until a few ASlers would tell me just think of it in your mind and sign a word similar to it.. I'm like boy, are you kidding me!!! as well I usually sign the similar word but I will also say the right word after it so they can see ohhh a new word to learn.. lol.. Sometime, I do forget the big words since I have to rethink them lol
I have seen where there is a sign that can be for several English words, people with mouth the word to show the distinction. Also I kind of made up my own thing that my BF and I use all the time. Since there isn’t an individual sign for “fabulous” (and you know my people use that word a lot) I sign “F. A. B. O.” in a cross shape, I did that before I met any Deafies though since I have known how to fingerspell since I was a teen. When I found out you use the same sign for “wonderful” and “fabulous” I thought, well I will just use what I used to do years ago. Some of my Deaf friends sign “whatever” with 2 hands making a “W” rather than the sign for “anyway” I put my own flare into that as well. And I also sign “NO” differently for when I mean “Hell NO” for which my best friend has changed how he signs “yes” to mean “Hell YEAH” in response to my “hell NO”. Now if I don’t sign these signs in this way people stop me and say I signed it wrong. I look at them and ask what they mean I signed correctly. Then they say “it is supposed to be” then they sign like me how ever I have made the little change. I guess because that is my personal voice as far as signing goes that makes me different and they expect it.
Just like any other language there's not always a direct replacement for a word, so you can't say that's the 'problem' with ASL. Every language is that way.
Umm, good thing that it's a comic book that I am making. I can put in word "traitor" for bubble message for anyone to read and still use back stabbing sign for picture part, in a sense I did not lose or gain anything.
Sometimes I think that's why I signed certain sentence in English rather than in ASL because it looked more meaningful to me.
Like today some of my classmates were angry over one student and (I am only deaf in my classroom) so I taught her English sign even though she knew that English sign and ASL sign is different. She wanted to learn both if she can.
One sentence I used is, "She is the most stupidest person ever." I taught English sign for "est" because in a sense it does not exists in ASL. I signed that sentence in English and used "est" in English too, because it is amusing to me. If I did it in ASL it would have lost it's meanings for me. That's why ASL is so frustrating for me, it's so...limited. But at the same time, it's picture is unlimited. So confusing for someone who had to raised using both languages.
That's why both of my English and ASL are so weak, in my brain they are fighting for domination, lol.
Sorry for a long post.
Its not limited vocabualry--its the difference between signing a word and signing a concept. In English, there are many words that have the same conceptual base but we distinguish between them by using suffixes, prefixes, etc. ASL uses classifiers and markers. Its the same concept as the English word stands for, so the vocabualry, in terms of the number of concepts understood and communicated is the same.
its not an ASL "problem". english has the largest vocabulary of any language on earth, mostly because we steal many words from other languages.
if ASL lacked a vocabulary, you would be limited in the way you could express things. If you are having a problem expressing something in ASL, its you, not the language.
like any language, it has as many words as it needs.
problem being ASL is so closely linked to english, people seem to think they are interchangable.....thats why its called "interpreting" not "transliterating". its one persons interpretation of the meaning from one language to another.
Glamorous is a same meaning as beautiful.
The aussie sign for that is "The flat handshape, palm towards, hand left, is brushed right across the chin, fingertips touching, as the hand closes to the good handshape"
That english sentence can be very well expressed in asl and not lose the meaning at all. That is where non manual markers come into play to put sense stress on the meaning. One might sign: "Compare others, she peabrain beat whoa!!" Now maybe you would express it another way but with the facialy expressions along with that one can believe she is the stupidest person ever. Asl is more graphic. Words are just words it's not what you say but how you say it. Asl skips this part and what you see is what you get clear concise and to the point. I love deaf because they are direct not wordy. English is too wordy at times. ASL is like a movie and you're watching it in real time. Think of it this way. You say the english sentence above and yeah the way you say it can get the point across, but each person is left up to their own way of thinking to process that. Maybe you mean it stronger than they perceive it to mean. In ASL it is not up to each individuals interpretation to figure out just how strongly you mean it. When we watch your ASL of that same sentence I see how strongly you mean it. I have no doubt in my mind. Now I am getting to wordy lol.
I agree with you what you said!
"stupidest" is not a word.....so i would think twice before calling someone else the "stupidest"
Are you sure?
Here's what I got in dictionary:
stupid >adjective (stupider, stupidest) 1 lacking intelligence or common sense. 2 informal used to express exasperation or boredom: your stupid paintings! 3 dazed and unable to think clearly.
-DERIVATIVES stupidity >noun stupidly >adverb.
-ORIGIN Latin stupidus, from stupere 'be amazed or stunned'.
So it is a word.
I just know that ASL does not use "er" or "est" in their language unless it is a person for "er." ASL just used other world to replace words that has "er" and "est."
Just like what Robbinelyn said. But still...I really liked that word "stupidest." I just can't see it being replaced by other words or signs. This is reason why I still signed it in English. Deaf people probably did not like it. But I think hearing people do, because that's what they understand, unless they are fluent in ASL.
I think what threw him off was "most stupidest" you would say either, "most stupid" or "stupidest" not "most stupidest". It's improper grammar like saying "I don't have no chips" what you really mean is you have none, but with the double negative you are actually saying you have chips. The "est" at the end of the word precludes "most" being in front of it. They mean the same thing. But some words can't have "est" or "er" at the end of them, for those words you have to use, "most", or "more" in front. English is so complicated! LOL I think Ariakkas knew something was wrong but he picked the wrong thing. But if you are being factitious then you can use "most stupidest" by saying it incorrectly you are going even further to state how unbelievably stupid the person is. At least that is how i see it.
If you're adding "endings" to your signs, that's English signing, not ASL grammar.
The "-er" AGENT sign added after a verb is not the same as the "-er" indicating modification to an adjective sign. They are not interchangeable.
I have seen that happen, and I want to scream! Example: "That new light is brighter." "BRIGHT+AGENT" !!!!!
If you really understand ASL you know that sticking "endings" onto modifiers isn't the way to emphasize them.
It's not a matter of whether or not hearing or deaf people "like" it. It's just not correct grammar. The grammar of any language is a set of rules that must be learned and followed. Otherwise, confusion and misunderstanding, not communication, results.
I think I have mentioned that I was not signing my sentence in ASL. I signed it in English. Because I want to say it in English, not in ASL. That sentence is fun when I said it in English rather than have ASL interprets it. At least to me. But that's not always the case.
I meant "er" as in interpreter. You sign "er" as in person. Not "er" as in anything else that's not person such as brighter. ASL have their own sign for brighter, probably using facial expression for that word along with sign for "light." Interpreter will say social work"er" and "er" is being replaced by "person." That is correct, yes? Correct me if I am mistaken.
That's one cool thing about learning to love both languages, you can say it in two different way. You pick which one you want to say on that day.
But again, my ASL or English is not that good. So...I may have mixed something up without meaning to.
I think I was mocking the woman so I used double negative. That's what I meant. I mocked that woman so I used "the most stupidest..."
But I admit that it may be my mistake on my part. Probably because I did not know "most" should not be used with "est" or "er."
I will talk to my English tutor about this, because I am curious about this situation and to see what she is going to say about it.
Thank you for educating me.
Separate names with a comma.