Is God Perfect?

Status
Not open for further replies.
God gave the angels and people free wills. They used their free wills in evil ways. God didn't make them do that. There was no reason for them to disobey God.

As you said that God gave the angels and people free wills but why he killed the people, children and newborns for? That's because they decided to worship something differently than worship only him? Is it free will? :confused:

The title of this thread is "Is God Prefect?" (sic). My post related directly to that question by showing man's imperfect viewpoint of perfect God. It had nothing to do with Adam and Eve compared to toddlers.

You blame Adam & Eve for their sins and defend God. The fact is Eve & Adam were innocent and naive as toddlers, have no knowledge of good and bad.
 
it's not an innocent mistake, they knew they were not allowed, and they did not listen to God. I'm not going to pity them because they did an act of disobedience. They are guilty for their mistake. If Adam and Eve had listened to God, and did not eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, then evil would not have been released into the world.

We disciple our kids when they do wrong, and if we don't disciple our kids, our kids will turned into spoil rotten they'll grow up being bad.

But serpant told her that it was okay for her to eat and said that God don't mind. Yes she was hesitant at first and then finally gave in and thought it's okay. Adam thought the same as well when Eve gave him piece of fruit. God found out and angry. But Eve & Adam supposed to have guardian angels to protect them from doing anything sinful? Why God let Satan tricked them?

How could Eve & Adam know over Satan's existence? God never warn them about Satan's existence? They weren't realized that they were tricked? God kicked them out of paradise for being tricked?

If God placed a forbidden fruit tree in the middle of the place where Adam & Eve lived and said to not touch it. As you said that God test their faith sound to me that he created temptation?

When the parents said to a toddler or small children: "you can't have that". What should you answer when they ask "why"? They would experiement their curiously anyway because they do not know how bad it is. That's exact how the child is tempted...

That's God created temptation.

Yes Eve and Adam made an innocent mistakes for thought it's okay to eat fruit from forbidden tree because Satan told them that God don't mind. Just one mistake... they can learn to correct their mistakes next time instead of get harsh punishment from God.



 
Drugs are not too available. I don't see it sitting on my sidewalk. There's no marijuana plant in my backyard. God put the tree right there in front of Adam and Eve.

Logical
 
The tree wasn't "right there in front" of them, and it was surrounded by many other beautiful fruited trees. Adam and Eve had many acres of garden to live in, so the tree wasn't exactly in their faces.

Genesis 2
9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Yes, but one of fruit trees should be removed in first place when God knew it would turn into bad and would happen...

I would remove bad one in my yard to protect my children from their temptation.

We removed eldberries tree from my yard to protect our children when my children were babies/toddlers...and 6 years later then re-plant eldberries tree in my yard. Its about ensure to prevent from happens. I would never, never, never test my toddlers's tempation but concern their safety.
 
What about friends? When someone has a wrong group of friends that uses drugs, And they're using drugs right in front of your face, and asked if you want a hint? You have a free will to say yes, or no. ;)

But teenagers/adults knew what drugs are about because they were being informed about this by their parents and school which Eve and Adam doesn't because they are very first couple like "toddler" on the earth to start to learn something new... They have no clue what "bad" and "satan" were about.

Yes we have free will to say no or yes because we receive fully information to know what kind of drugs by the parents and school.
 

-Some of them were claimed God is not prefect.


  • If God want prefection then simple created us this way.
  • If he wants prefect relationship and free will, then do the way we are.
  • If he give us free will, then let the people have choice what they want to beleive or not. Unfortunlately Jealous God killed them because they prefer to worship differently than worship him only. will free? prefect? :cool:

-Some of them were claimed God tested His children.

  • Unfortunlately yes, God placed forbidden fruit tree to test his creation children's faith.
  • God also tested Abraham's faith is got him to sacrifice his son Isaac.

Perfect? It's cruel test.


-Some of them were claimed that God changed his mind.

  • Unfortunlately yes, he set the OT and later then change his mind to set "better" rules on NT.

-Some of them were claimed that God made a mistake.

  • Yes, he made a mistake... see all of above...

Just thought for a moment. ^_^

No problem :thumb:
 
The tree wasn't "right there in front" of them, and it was surrounded by many other beautiful fruited trees. Adam and Eve had many acres of garden to live in, so the tree wasn't exactly in their faces.

Genesis 2
9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
Still, why put it there?

You can't just put something there and say, "Don't touch it."
 
God is not perfect!
Jun 29 '05

The Bottom Line Read the review.

This review is for Lanny. Before we go any further, this is just my opinion. You may think I am crazy, you may damn me to hell, or you might just find some of what I say makes sense.

Why God is not perfect:

1. God created Angels, and one of them (Lucifer) turned against him. Why if God was all knowing, all seeing and all powerful would he create something that would turn against him?

2. Man is made in God's image. Are we perfect? No, I didn't think so.

3. Before God gave Moses the 10 commandments, he left people to their own devices. I believe that he came up with the commandments after watching how cruel people were to each other.

4. God knew that he had screwed up, so he told Noah to build an arc. His choice was Noah, because Noah was the least sinful person on earth. Then after Noah had gathered 2 of every animal, his wife, his sons and daughter-in-laws, God flooded the earth.

5. God punished people for sinning and asked them to do terrible things in his name. Later, he realized he was wrong (read the new testament).

6. God sent his son to earth to live among the people. I think that until then God did not have a clue about what made people tick. He learned that punishing people was not the way and he then spread a message of love.

So, there are some of my reasons why I believe that God is not perfect. I am not questioning his ways, I am not saying I don't believe in him, I am just stating what I believe to be true. I feel that true Christians do not convert people by damning them to hell, the only true way to convert someone is to show them love just as Jesus did.

Thank you, and all comments are welcome.

Angela

Epinions.com - God is not perfect!
 
How Can A Good God Permit Evil in the World?

Delve Into Jesus : Articles : How Can A Good God Permit Evil in the World?

Why is there evil in the world?
The source of evil in the world is you and I - all of mankind. We hurt others, we hurt ourselves and we hurt God. We sin. Each and every one of us has done this at least a few times in our lives. We have known what was right and what was wrong and we consciously, deliberately chose to do wrong. For some, the evil is nothing more than a lie or some hurtful words. For some, it is murder and savagery. Regardless of the severity, the nature of the sin is the same. At that moment, we rebelled against God and said to Him, "What I want right now is more important than you. I know this hurts you and I know it's wrong but I don't care, I'm doing it anyway."

Why did God allow us to get into this mess?
God made us this way because He loves us. He did not make us to be puppets or robots because true love can never be forced or demanded. It can never come from someone who is unable to make any other choice. Only when someone makes a decision from their own will and desire can it be said to be complete and true love. Thus, God will not control us, compel us or force us to do anything. We are completely free. Sometimes we do good, and sometime we do evil. God does not interfere.

Why does God have to allow the effects of evil? Why not permit the choice, but not allow the awful consequences?
Imagine this idea in your own home, if you have any young children. Every time your child does something wrong, let's pretend you will simply clean up the mess and say nothing. There will be no punishment and no cleaning of their own mess. If they destroy something, you must replace it without saying another word. You will still have to try to do your best to teach them right and wrong, but there will never be a consequence for bad behavior. In this scenario, it's easy to see that your child will learn to do what feels best for them, for they cannot possibly have a sense of other people's needs and feelings. Without consequence and punishment, they will become ultimately selfish because it is impossible for them to know what it feels like to hurt another person. It's only by suffering the consequences of our actions that we can learn and become better people. Removing the consequence removes the moral element and it removes any opportunity we have to grow.

Why permit all the effects of sin? Why not remove some of it?
He does! In fact, if one were to ask, "What has God done about the problem of sin?" the answer is, of course, "He sent His Son to die." However, this is what He has done in order to solve the problem ultimately and forever. In order to minimize the effect and consequence of sin daily, God has provided us with cultural, political and societal institutions such as government, economic order, family and education. All of these were put in place by God to minimize both the desire to sin and the effect of sin. These institutions protect and shield us, and without them we would descend into anarchy and chaos. (Witness the moral and ethical decline in the last 40 years as society has dismantled the traditional family unit which God provided.)

What about Disease and Natural Disasters?
Of course, this is not the entire picture. Free will and consequence cannot explain a three-year-old getting cancer or a nation wiped out in a earthquake. How can a loving God permit these things? No one sinned and no one made a choice. These things just happened!

First, we need to realize that as a result of our sin, the world is not what God intended it to be. When Man first began to rebel, everything changed and the earth which was once a blissful paradise became tough, unpredictable and wild. The fact that we, as a people, have lost our paradise is a consequence we all share for our combined sin. You can never point to a single event or sin which causes a child to fall ill, but you can say that we are all a sinful people and as a result, the world is a difficult place in which to live for each and every one of us, for none of us are without blame.

Yet still, there is another explanation. Is is true that sometimes God will permit evil or pain to happen for greater good. This is a very difficult thing, because we may never know in this life what the greater purpose was. It might be a great relief to know that by dying, your child will affect a hundred lives in a positive way, but sadly, we rarely have the opportunity to know. And so, it becomes an issue of trust and faith. If something bad happens to me, especially if I have prayed to God to take it away and He has not, I must have faith that God is in charge. I know that He is good and powerful and there is a reason that this is happening. I trust Him even when it makes no sense because He is good.

That is easy to say and very hard to do! It can be the hardest thing in the world to stand by and watch someone suffer while all the time knowing that God could take it all away if He wanted. We pray and pray, and we start to worry that maybe God is not so good after all because a "good" God would take this pain away. But if He took it away, what greater good would be lost?

If God is everything we know Him to be, then we have to have faith no matter how hard it may be, that He loves us and has our best interest in mind. He loves us too much to let us be the child whose parent cleans up after their every mess. He wants us to become something better.
 
*nodding agreement*

God changed his mind... It shows no prefect!!! :cool:

God has never changed his mind, In fact He told Adam and Eve if they ate the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Eve the fruit would cause death. And it did, It brought sin in the world. "Through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned (Roman 5:12)

Then God promised a Salvation in the Old Testament and God did kept his promise. Jesus did came on earth and died on the cross to paid for our sins.

So where did God change his mind? He hasn't. :ty:

Liebling said:
How could Eve & Adam know over Satan's existence? God never warn them about Satan's existence? They weren't realized that they were tricked? God kicked them out of paradise for being tricked?

If God placed a forbidden fruit tree in the middle of the place where Adam & Eve lived and said to not touch it. As you said that God test their faith sound to me that he created temptation?

When the parents said to a toddler or small children: "you can't have that". What should you answer when they ask "why"? They would experiement their curiously anyway because they do not know how bad it is. That's exact how the child is tempted...

Once again, God did warned them, Ok? It's the same for example: You command your child not to play in the street. Now if that child plays in the street and gets killed by a car, The child disobedience you. It's the same as Adam and Eve, they disobedience God. :)
 
  • If God want prefection then simple created us this way.
  • If he wants prefect relationship and free will, then do the way we are.
  • If he give us free will, then let the people have choice what they want to beleive or not. Unfortunlately Jealous God killed them because they prefer to worship differently than worship him only. will free? prefect? :cool:

  • Unfortunlately yes, God placed forbidden fruit tree to test his creation children's faith.
  • God also tested Abraham's faith is got him to sacrifice his son Isaac.

Perfect? It's cruel test.



  • Unfortunlately yes, he set the OT and later then change his mind to set "better" rules on NT.

  • Yes, he made a mistake... see all of above...

No problem :thumb:

Good thought.

Personally, I do not think God is screwed up because He settled it up as His best plan before the beginning of Seven Days. He knew it will happen, however, He already made for His new World in the future. He is doing His best job.

Okay, it's enough for me. I don't want to repeat it once again. That point is NO ONE can understand Him why. It's more beyond the acknowagle and love. :)

Thanks for sharing with me, Liebling. :thumb:
 
Delve Into Jesus : Articles : How Can A Good God Permit Evil in the World?

Why is there evil in the world?
The source of evil in the world is you and I - all of mankind. We hurt others, we hurt ourselves and we hurt God. We sin. Each and every one of us has done this at least a few times in our lives. We have known what was right and what was wrong and we consciously, deliberately chose to do wrong. For some, the evil is nothing more than a lie or some hurtful words. For some, it is murder and savagery. Regardless of the severity, the nature of the sin is the same. At that moment, we rebelled against God and said to Him, "What I want right now is more important than you. I know this hurts you and I know it's wrong but I don't care, I'm doing it anyway."

Why did God allow us to get into this mess?
God made us this way because He loves us. He did not make us to be puppets or robots because true love can never be forced or demanded. It can never come from someone who is unable to make any other choice. Only when someone makes a decision from their own will and desire can it be said to be complete and true love. Thus, God will not control us, compel us or force us to do anything. We are completely free. Sometimes we do good, and sometime we do evil. God does not interfere.

Why does God have to allow the effects of evil? Why not permit the choice, but not allow the awful consequences?
Imagine this idea in your own home, if you have any young children. Every time your child does something wrong, let's pretend you will simply clean up the mess and say nothing. There will be no punishment and no cleaning of their own mess. If they destroy something, you must replace it without saying another word. You will still have to try to do your best to teach them right and wrong, but there will never be a consequence for bad behavior. In this scenario, it's easy to see that your child will learn to do what feels best for them, for they cannot possibly have a sense of other people's needs and feelings. Without consequence and punishment, they will become ultimately selfish because it is impossible for them to know what it feels like to hurt another person. It's only by suffering the consequences of our actions that we can learn and become better people. Removing the consequence removes the moral element and it removes any opportunity we have to grow.

Why permit all the effects of sin? Why not remove some of it?
He does! In fact, if one were to ask, "What has God done about the problem of sin?" the answer is, of course, "He sent His Son to die." However, this is what He has done in order to solve the problem ultimately and forever. In order to minimize the effect and consequence of sin daily, God has provided us with cultural, political and societal institutions such as government, economic order, family and education. All of these were put in place by God to minimize both the desire to sin and the effect of sin. These institutions protect and shield us, and without them we would descend into anarchy and chaos. (Witness the moral and ethical decline in the last 40 years as society has dismantled the traditional family unit which God provided.)

What about Disease and Natural Disasters?
Of course, this is not the entire picture. Free will and consequence cannot explain a three-year-old getting cancer or a nation wiped out in a earthquake. How can a loving God permit these things? No one sinned and no one made a choice. These things just happened!

First, we need to realize that as a result of our sin, the world is not what God intended it to be. When Man first began to rebel, everything changed and the earth which was once a blissful paradise became tough, unpredictable and wild. The fact that we, as a people, have lost our paradise is a consequence we all share for our combined sin. You can never point to a single event or sin which causes a child to fall ill, but you can say that we are all a sinful people and as a result, the world is a difficult place in which to live for each and every one of us, for none of us are without blame.

Yet still, there is another explanation. Is is true that sometimes God will permit evil or pain to happen for greater good. This is a very difficult thing, because we may never know in this life what the greater purpose was. It might be a great relief to know that by dying, your child will affect a hundred lives in a positive way, but sadly, we rarely have the opportunity to know. And so, it becomes an issue of trust and faith. If something bad happens to me, especially if I have prayed to God to take it away and He has not, I must have faith that God is in charge. I know that He is good and powerful and there is a reason that this is happening. I trust Him even when it makes no sense because He is good.

That is easy to say and very hard to do! It can be the hardest thing in the world to stand by and watch someone suffer while all the time knowing that God could take it all away if He wanted. We pray and pray, and we start to worry that maybe God is not so good after all because a "good" God would take this pain away. But if He took it away, what greater good would be lost?

If God is everything we know Him to be, then we have to have faith no matter how hard it may be, that He loves us and has our best interest in mind. He loves us too much to let us be the child whose parent cleans up after their every mess. He wants us to become something better.

Yep!! I AGREE!! I'd seen it before. It's very true. Thanks for posting it! :D:D
 
Thanks! I hope and pray that someone can understand what God is trying to teach us. It's all about LOVE!!!

Yep!! I AGREE!! I'd seen it before. It's very true. Thanks for posting it! :D:D
 
Well, I dont know if it is true. Bible said NOONE are perfect. That mean god and Jesus Christ too. I am not perfect. I know that all of us make mistake and learn. I dont say who is perfect!. I would say NOONE are perfect.
 
Good posting Sunshinie. :thumb:
 
Yes, but one of fruit trees should be removed in first place when God knew it would turn into bad and would happen...

God only set one rule for Adam and Eve, it is to not eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil but they both disobey God by eating the fruit anyways.

If a teacher set a rule in her classroom by telling the students not to touch something, do you expect your child to obey the teacher?

It's the same thing hon.
 
Well, I dont know if it is true. Bible said NOONE are perfect. That mean god and Jesus Christ too. I am not perfect. I know that all of us make mistake and learn. I dont say who is perfect!. I would say NOONE are perfect.

God is not a human being, He's the creator, God and Jesus are the same, Jesus is the Son of God, The Father, and the Holy Spirit, so Jesus was the only one who was without sins. We are sinners and imperfect. :)
 
Yea Sunshine thanks for posting it, because like I said about Adam and Eve eating the fruit from the tree, God did not interfere, it's the same for us when we are sinning, God does not interfere either. God is hoping we will do what's right, not what's wrong. Just like us as parents we always hope that our children would do the right thing in life, not the wrong things, because we love our children, the same way God loves us all. ;)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top