I'm afraid deaf education is falling apart

DeafDucky

Well-Known Member
#21
Here we go with the 1st/2nd thing again.

I agree that deaf should learn "proper English" but I also think that ASL should be learned/taught at the same time or at least before entering school- that would work for pre lingually deaf/born deaf. For kids who become deaf later- say 2 and up- there's no reason why they can't have ASL as the primary language and use that to teach proper English. I know a deaf man who lost his hearing at the age of 11 due to measles (or mumps I can't remember which). He grew up mainstream in hearing schools- barely managed to get through. His primary language now is ASL and his English is better than most (and that's on top of the fact that in his family SPANISH is the primary language!).

I also know quite a few hard of hearing people who grew up mainstream and 'learning proper English'- as an adult their English still isn't very good at all. One had a reading level of a 4th grader, at least two others- their written skills lacked a lot. All of them are smart in other ways, just that they had major difficulties with English- and likely ASL would have helped them much better.

I was "lucky" I guess that I was able to do well in English/Reading etc growing up in mainstream but I can only imagine how much further I could have gotten if I had known ASL. Maybe be able to participate more instead of trying to play catch up all day.

Neither Botts (I can't see it in her 2 posts) nor I are looking down on you. In so many words I could say that you are also looking down your nose at those deaf who learned ASL at an early age but could probably run circles around you in the English/reading/writing department.

So -- I disagree with your assessment that ALL dhh should have "Proper" English as 1st language. It won't work that way for all of them. Some will do fine with just English, Some do best with just ASL, and even more will or can do just fine with both, utilizing ASL to learn English. Ain't a one size fits all situation.
 

Cappy

Well-Known Member
#22
Here we go with the 1st/2nd thing again.

I agree that deaf should learn "proper English" but I also think that ASL should be learned/taught at the same time or at least before entering school- that would work for pre lingually deaf/born deaf. For kids who become deaf later- say 2 and up- there's no reason why they can't have ASL as the primary language and use that to teach proper English. I know a deaf man who lost his hearing at the age of 11 due to measles (or mumps I can't remember which). He grew up mainstream in hearing schools- barely managed to get through. His primary language now is ASL and his English is better than most (and that's on top of the fact that in his family SPANISH is the primary language!).

I also know quite a few hard of hearing people who grew up mainstream and 'learning proper English'- as an adult their English still isn't very good at all. One had a reading level of a 4th grader, at least two others- their written skills lacked a lot. All of them are smart in other ways, just that they had major difficulties with English- and likely ASL would have helped them much better.

I was "lucky" I guess that I was able to do well in English/Reading etc growing up in mainstream but I can only imagine how much further I could have gotten if I had known ASL. Maybe be able to participate more instead of trying to play catch up all day.

Neither Botts (I can't see it in her 2 posts) nor I are looking down on you. In so many words I could say that you are also looking down your nose at those deaf who learned ASL at an early age but could probably run circles around you in the English/reading/writing department.

So -- I disagree with your assessment that ALL dhh should have "Proper" English as 1st language. It won't work that way for all of them. Some will do fine with just English, Some do best with just ASL, and even more will or can do just fine with both, utilizing ASL to learn English. Ain't a one size fits all situation.
Hi, DeafDucky, you are correct. Every deaf/hoh person is different. You made that clear.

I would like to be clear that, I do not look down my nose at any hearing impaired person. I have dhh friends at all different levels.

There is a saying: Those of a feather flock together. It is 100 percent correct. I love you all regardless.

The OP is asking about deaf education. In this world, I'm still saying primary language = English first (real world). ASL as secondary (in your own time). I was just tossing in my .02c
 

Reba

Retired Terp
Premium Member
#24
I think all dhh students should be taught proper English as their first language. ASL can be their 2nd language.
Are there schools that teach improper English?

Anyway, kids need a language long before they start formal schooling, so for those born deaf or becoming deaf in infancy, ASL is the place to start.

That doesn't mean they can't be exposed to spoken English but that won't be their primary communication mode.
 

Reba

Retired Terp
Premium Member
#25
Hi, DeafDucky, you are correct. Every deaf/hoh person is different. You made that clear.
So are hearing people. All people are individuals.

I would like to be clear that, I do not look down my nose at any hearing impaired person. I have dhh friends at all different levels.
It would be more clear and credible if you didn't use the term "hearing impaired." I also wonder what you mean by "different levels." :hmm:

There is a saying: Those of a feather flock together. It is 100 percent correct. I love you all regardless….
What do you mean that "I love you all regardless"? Regardless of what?
 

rockin'robin

Well-Known Member
#26
"Proper English"....:roll:...maybe you've seen teenagers (hearing) trying to write "proper English"?.....They even speak gibberish!....Wondering what excuse they have?....Even the 20-something year olds do the same....And when I say..."English, please!"...I get a dumb look...oh well.
 

whatdidyousay!

Well-Known Member
#27
I was in a special Ed class and there were kids that had all kind of learning disabilities . We had one burnt out teacher for the whole day and was given work below our grade level so the school could say " We pass the class" . This was to save money and time and get us out of the way . The schools don't like to spend a lot of money on students that have LD.
This is still the first thing that get cut in school funding today. It's not only deaf education that fallen apart it's education for all students that have LD. It's up to the parents to made sure their child is getting the help they need , you can't relies on your child's teacher or school to do this . Teachers will just write your child off as being 'lazy' or 'stupid' or just doesn't care about school. It's very rare to have a teacher take the time to try and help a child with LD. I would hope things would be a lot better than when I went to school . Our kids our future leaders , doctors lawyers , presidents etc and deserve the best education there is.
 

deafdyke

Well-Known Member
#29
I was in a special Ed class and there were kids that had all kind of learning disabilities . We had one burnt out teacher for the whole day and was given work below our grade level so the school could say " We pass the class" . This was to save money and time and get us out of the way . The schools don't like to spend a lot of money on students that have LD.
This is still the first thing that get cut in school funding today. It's not only deaf education that fallen apart it's education for all students that have LD. It's up to the parents to made sure their child is getting the help they need , you can't relies on your child's teacher or school to do this . Teachers will just write your child off as being 'lazy' or 'stupid' or just doesn't care about school. It's very rare to have a teacher take the time to try and help a child with LD. I would hope things would be a lot better than when I went to school . Our kids our future leaders , doctors lawyers , presidents etc and deserve the best education there is.
Did you know in Special ed in MA, they got rid of resource rooms?!?!? That horrifies me, as kids with LDs, while they shouldn't be given a worksheet to color or REALLY watered down academic curriclum, they still lag behind typical kids......ANd yeah, nowadays in education, special ed is the first thing to get cut. SO frustrating. Most kids in special ed, while they won't go to Harvard or a highly selective college, can still learn and acheive. ...but they are going to fall through the cracks in a one size fits all classroom.
 

deafdyke

Well-Known Member
#30
Good save. I dont think so. I had to completedly re-learn to talk, walk and the whole nine yards. It is all about having the proper teachers of all types. That combination, got me to be a honor student, in a hearing middle and high school.

Too often, a born deaffie asks me: are you deaf/hh/hearing? I say, deaf and gv the same explanation as I gv you, they then MOSTLY look down at me thru their nose.

It is a culture thing. Even you, in so many words admit it. Saying, OH you knew English! OFC, I knew English. I read. I studied. I used the dictionary.
You had to relearn how to do that stuff... you didn't have to learn it from scratch. HUGE difference!
 

Vorsia

Active Member
#31
The schools change curriculum every year ,its sad dumb down America its not okay .I homeschooled for two years but kids didn't like it ,also you have to get kids inspired to learn new things .every child learn in a different way .
 

Frisky Feline

Well-Known Member
#37
I was taught by a LOUSY hearing teachers who could not sign in ENGLISH. I ended up learn from the LOUSY hearing teachers that I am forced to learn SEE and then COM SIM. I really wish that I could learn ASL first in order to understand what is going on, then I WOULD love to read the BOOK, MORE. Oh well Life goes on!
 

Bottesini

Old Deaf Ranter
Premium Member
#38
Nice eye roll, but are you deafdyke to whom I was replying to?
Really you aren't making any friends this way. You are just exposing your complete ignorance, and how childish you are in trying to win an argument that you can't possibly win.