IEP help

[shel90]

Agenda? Are you paranoid?

Just proves you're trying to make me look bad. That's all.

Pls move on...if u think I am paranoid..so be it. I dont care...this thread is about Miss Kat and Fair Jour..not about u and me. Pls for God's sake..move on.

 

[ClearSky]

nice try again.

 

[jillio]

Like you haven't answered someone's question unintentionally? Nice try to make me look bad.

Please try to keep in mind that the topic of this discussion is an IEP for a student. Trying to make it about anything else diverts from a productive discussion.

 

[shel90]

fair Jour..it is your decision..if u want her to develop oral skills so badly, u can send her to an oral-only program with an ASL terp.

I just figured if Miss Kat can hear so well, she will be able pick up spoken English from you at home without a problem. My only concern is her academic progress..in my opinion, I prefer to keep academics in her primary language so she can progress on level while picking up spoken English in speech classes and at home..it really isnt going to happen overnight..it will take years.

That's all I can offer but u can try to add more speech services to her IEP..you have that right and if not, your decision to place her in another program. I cant tell you what to do.

 

[faire_jour]

I have childrne with CIs who were able to develop spoken language just fine in a Bi Bi program. Like I said in my reply to ClearSky. I have 6 years of seeing different kids and different cases. I have seen so many deaf children who went to Deaf schools without CIs who were able to devleop spoken language while some others who even went to mainstreamed programs who couldnt develop spoken language despite being exposed to Spoken English all day.

If Miss Kat has the abilitiy, she will develop spoken language. She just got implanted so it is gonna take some time.

I don't understand how. If she isn't given the opportunity to hear the language, how is she going to learn it? It certainly won't be from the inadaquate therapy she gets at school!

 

[shel90]

I don't understand how. If she isn't given the opportunity to hear the language, how is she going to learn it? It certainly won't be from the inadaquate therapy she gets at school!

Children are like sponges..


They are amazing. Look at me..I learned spoken English despit having a bilateral hearing loss of 120 dB since birth. Children will learn if they have the innate ability to do so. Maybe it seems inadaquete to you or maybe it is cuz Miss Kat is more of a visual learner.

 

[jillio]

I don't understand how. If she isn't given the opportunity to hear the language, how is she going to learn it? It certainly won't be from the inadaquate therapy she gets at school!

Won't you be providing her the opportunity to hear spoken language at home? What about the t.v.? What about hearing friends and family? Those are all sources of spoken language.

 

[faire_jour]

fair Jour..it is your decision..if u want her to develop oral skills so badly, u can send her to an oral-only program with an ASL terp.

I just figured if Miss Kat can hear so well, she will be able pick up spoken English from you at home without a problem. My only concern is her academic progress..in my opinion, I prefer to keep academics in her primary language so she can progress on level while picking up spoken English in speech classes and at home..it really isnt going to happen overnight..it will take years.

That's all I can offer but u can try to add more speech services to her IEP..you have that right and if not, your decision to place her in another program. I cant tell you what to do.

We sign at home! It is her primary language, so it is the language of communication in our house.
And I am not looking for this to happen overnight, she was HOH for 3 years, amplified "well" with speech services from this school, with literally ZERO progress. We started seeing a private AVT and she made stunning progress in a very short period of time. I keep being told "Language is the key. If you sign, speech will come later." And we did exactly what "they" told us. So here we are 4+ years later, and she hasn't made the progress. We put her in an AVT enviroment for 3 hours a week and she is suddenly taking off. We are now starting to question what we should be doing to help her best succeed in all areas.

 

[shel90]

We sign at home! It is her primary language, so it is the language of communication in our house.
And I am not looking for this to happen overnight, she was HOH for 3 years, amplified "well" with speech services from this school, with literally ZERO progress. We started seeing a private AVT and she made stunning progress in a very short period of time. I keep being told "Language is the key. If you sign, speech will come later." And we did exactly what "they" told us. So here we are 4+ years later, and she hasn't made the progress. We put her in an AVT enviroment for 3 hours a week and she is suddenly taking off. We are now starting to question what we should be doing to help her best succeed in all areas.

Then, why not keep up with the AVT therapy? I think what happened was that she established a strong first language and that first language is now helping her establish her 2nd language. Of course, the 2nd language wont happen until the first language is fully established so that is very very common with so many deaf children from Deaf families with their first and 2nd languages....

 

[jillio]

We sign at home! It is her primary language, so it is the language of communication in our house.
And I am not looking for this to happen overnight, she was HOH for 3 years, amplified "well" with speech services from this school, with literally ZERO progress. We started seeing a private AVT and she made stunning progress in a very short period of time. I keep being told "Language is the key. If you sign, speech will come later." And we did exactly what "they" told us. So here we are 4+ years later, and she hasn't made the progress. We put her in an AVT enviroment for 3 hours a week and she is suddenly taking off. We are now starting to question what we should be doing to help her best succeed in all areas.

But she has made progress. You say her language skills are age appropriate. Speech is nothing without the language foundation to make it meaningful. It is very possible that she is making progress with the AVT because she has a strong foundation in ASL, thus giving her a language on which to base subsequent language.

Success in AVT means only success measured in very limited ways. Speech success does not equal academic success. AVT's goal is speech, not academics. The way for any child to succeed is through an adequate education. It is important that they are able to communicate, not how they communicate.

 

[shel90]

But she has made progress. You say her language skills are age appropriate. Speech is nothing without the language foundation to make it meaningful. It is very possible that she is making progress with the AVT because she has a strong foundation in ASL, thus giving her a language on which to base subsequent language.

Success in AVT means only success measured in very limited ways. Speech success does not equal academic success. AVT's goal is speech, not academics. The way for any child to succeed is through an adequate education. It is important that they are able to communicate, not how they communicate.

Right...just like with Spanish speaking children..their strong L1 language in Spanish helps them become fluent in their L2 language which is most likely English so quickly.

 

[jillio]

Right...just like with Spanish speaking children..their strong L1 language in Spanish helps them become fluent in their L2 language which is most likely English so quickly.

Exactly.

 

[faire_jour]

But she has made progress. You say her language skills are age appropriate. Speech is nothing without the language foundation to make it meaningful. It is very possible that she is making progress with the AVT because she has a strong foundation in ASL, thus giving her a language on which to base subsequent language.

Success in AVT means only success measured in very limited ways. Speech success does not equal academic success. AVT's goal is speech, not academics. The way for any child to succeed is through an adequate education. It is important that they are able to communicate, not how they communicate.

So why is everyone so unwilling to let us give her both? Why can't there be dual language programs? Why can't we have spoken language AND ASL in our bi-bi schools? Why is it always "OR"?

 

[faire_jour]

Then, why not keep up with the AVT therapy? I think what happened was that she established a strong first language and that first language is now helping her establish her 2nd language. Of course, the 2nd language wont happen until the first language is fully established so that is very very common with so many deaf children from Deaf families with their first and 2nd languages....

3 hours a week will never get her to language fluency.

 

[shel90]

So why is everyone so unwilling to let us give her both? Why can't there be dual language programs? Why can't we have spoken language AND ASL in our bi-bi schools? Why is it always "OR"?

I feel the same as u..I want both too! I hate the "OR" view which is why I am excited that my program is the first one to offer "both". Where I work at tends to do everything first and then the other programs follow along.

I didnt come here to argue but just trying to understand where u are coming from and sharing my experience and u have said Miss Kat was hearing before and can hear so well with her CIs so based on my experience, I feel she will eventually develop spoken language ..maybe not right away and it sure sounds like because she has a strong first language in ASL, she is now focusing on developing her 2nd language which is so normal for so many bilingual children to do at around the age of 5.

 

[shel90]

3 hours a week will never get her to language fluency.

U would be surprised...it could. I only had one hour of speech therapy a week and I am pretty fluent in English.

What about trying to add more speech therapy services in her IEP and go from there?

 

[jillio]

So why is everyone so unwilling to let us give her both? Why can't there be dual language programs? Why can't we have spoken language AND ASL in our bi-bi schools? Why is it always "OR"?

Well, perhaps it is the way you are defining "dual language". Bi-bi is a dual language program, in that it offers both ASL and English. Spoken English is but one form of the language of English.

 

[jillio]

3 hours a week will never get her to language fluency.

But it would appear that she is already fluent in English, given your reports of her academic evaluations. She just isn't speaking English fluently yet. But, given that she has a fluency in the language, and the amazing progress that you have stated she is making with her CI, you may be surprised at what 3 hours a week will do.

 

[faire_jour]

U would be surprised...it could. I only had one hour of speech therapy a week and I am pretty fluent in English.

What about trying to add more speech therapy services in her IEP and go from there?

I thought you were mainstreamed? That would mean that you were exposed to spoken language all day everyday.
The problem is that we are getting terrible speech services from the school. The SLP thinks that Miss Kat is doing fine, inspite of the fact that she is not meeting her speech goals. Until this year she was getting 15 minutes a WEEK! She now gets 15 minutes two or three times a week, but she is still focusing on completly inappropriate things. In AVT we are working on hearing the difference between words and phrases (http://www.hearingjourney.com/userfiles/File/lstnglddr03(1).pdf) and the school's SLP is worried about "A says ahhh".

 

[faire_jour]

But it would appear that she is already fluent in English, given your reports of her academic evaluations. She just isn't speaking English fluently yet. But, given that she has a fluency in the language, and the amazing progress that you have stated she is making with her CI, you may be surprised at what 3 hours a week will do.

She is in Kindy so there is very very very little English used in her classroom right now.