How Can You Love God and Hate Someone ?

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Lantana

New Member
At least the JW have a very good Sign Language program for their congregation who are interested. I cannot say that for other religions. That is what impresses me.

I just don't like the way they kick people out of their church when they "sin". I thought that is what a church is for, helping sinners. 'Very confusing!
 

800poundgorilla

New Member
At least the JW have a very good Sign Language program for their congregation who are interested. I cannot say that for other religions. That is what impresses me.

I just don't like the way they kick people out of their church when they "sin". I thought that is what a church is for, helping sinners. 'Very confusing!
Those people choose to leave, they say, in so many words, I am going to continue to sin, or do whatever I want to do. The Bible says to remove those who sin against God willfully.
 

christlovedeaf

New Member
Use then tell the congregation and treat that person as a sinner. Doesn't mean a person set a goal to deal with and fight against stronghold. Its depend how the person respond of his or her own sin. Many thinks sin as drunkard, any sex sins, or wild parties or etc, but that's also include backstabbing, gossipping, judgemental and other inappropriate attitudes. If you look at King David, he has committed surmountable sins. How King David feels, if you quick decide to expell the person, you would do the same toward King David. Many thinks after Psalm 51 show King David didn't sin afterward. WRONG! King David committed other sins horribly after he commit adultery with Bathsheba. If a person being to open minded, then that will be a problem. Remember what happen btwn Paul and Barnabas about bringing back John Mark. Paul refuse and that's what lead a split up, but God touched Paul for working out with good spirit toward Barnabas and John Mark. I ve seen many church taking it wrong by quickly expelled or gossipping. Paul angrily rebuke the church for gossipping about a guy slept with step mother and Paul gave them guideline and the church sinned by wrongful judgments and a person suppose to confide with a guy who slept with step mother, if a person refuse to change and deal, then treat him as a sinner.
 

christlovedeaf

New Member
As above, I noticed my top half been cutoff, as you see says "Use thenK, should be "refuse then. But as top half I said it does not say that by saying if a person sin should be expelled. No it does not. Jesus gave us a guideline. He said if you caught ur bro or sis in sin should CONFIDE to that person, if a person REFUSE, then bring another person, if still REFUSE, bring another person, if still REFUSE, then tell the whole congregation and treat that person like a sinner. Then on I shared above.
 

Lantana

New Member
JW kicking people out

:bsflag:

I live in an area where there are alot of JW. Some deaf, mostly hearing, (tho to give them credit, most of them sign!). I know for a fact that some of my deaf friends have been kicked out of the church for living with their boyfriends outside of marriage. Another one got removed for wearing her dresses to short to church.

In my book, it is the sinners who need help, not the Holier Than Thou do-gooders.
 

christlovedeaf

New Member
I'd say MOST of relgious people are hypocrites. They hate gay/ lesbian people but love God. :dunno2:
Yes, there are many who hate gays and lez, sometimes we have to becareful how we look at, either hating them or not condone their lifestyle, not condoning does have love out of that. Suppose, you love your kids so much, but seeing your kids destroying themselves, what would you do? Hating and not condone isn't the same thing. You love your kids so much, but you don't condone what they are doing themselves. Yes, I have met several christians saying they hate gays and also some say they are against them. I wasn't happy by their reaction which is not of God. Even talking about God destroying them, but didn't use other part that God destroyed gossippers andneg murmurs. Many time in the Bible talked about attitudes and talk about the way we say things more than any other. That's sad part. Like Book of Proverb says that your tongue is life and death. Meaning is your comments bring life or death? In Torah says choose life or death. Meaning how we live and say things. God hates sin which destroying lives, but love a person so much. The church I go aren't judgemental and also not open minded. That's where I like which lead me more pondering and deal what God expect me to honor Him. Well, of course I made a lot of mistakes, but have to deal every moment of my failures. God knows my heart than others do, bec they can't see my hidden desires, prob is they judge by outward apearance or whatever sin they don't commit so easily cutting me down. This is why, so sad in many churches doesn't really follow Jesus' guideline how we minister others in varies of problems or weaknesses.
 

TrickPony

New Member
Lantana ...

I lived with my fiance and we're not even married yet, still have a Bible Study with Jehovah's Witnesses and still go to the Kingdom Hall, they didn't kick us out ....

Well I've seen on Jehovah's Witnesses wears skin tight outfit didn't get kick out, but I've seen her and she's still there and she may have been told not to wears too tight I assumed ....

From what I seen what God said in the Bible ... It's true that God wants to keeps the Kingdom Hall clean, People who keeps on sinning cannot keeps on sinning, it is a serious sins against God to do something that it isn't right, if they did one wrong, they have change to do better and to repent not to sins again ...but if they choose not to change and keeps on sinning, they have to removed themselves, nobody kicks them out....

About Gay & Lesbian, it is not true that Jehovah's Witnesses hate them, not as a person, but God said in the Bible that men lie with men same as for women lie with women, he said it's distestable to him, he means ( disgusting ) immorality gross, that God is Love that he did not created a man to man and woman to woman, he created Adam and & Eve to produce children all over the earth, if God didn't made Adam & Eve, but man to man and woman to woman, there will be no US today, does that make sense ?

There is a law in the Bible for us to follow compared to the law on the earth, there are cops, judge, they give us a punishment for doing something wrong, same things with the Bible.



:bsflag:

I live in an area where there are alot of JW. Some deaf, mostly hearing, (tho to give them credit, most of them sign!). I know for a fact that some of my deaf friends have been kicked out of the church for living with their boyfriends outside of marriage. Another one got removed for wearing her dresses to short to church.

In my book, it is the sinners who need help, not the Holier Than Thou do-gooders.
 
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Reba

Retired Terp
Premium Member
I'm very sorry that I haven't been back to AllDeaf in several days. I've been very busy with work and family. I might have to leave again before I finish this reply, so I'm going to answer one point at a time so hopefully, I can get something posted.

Since you believe the New Testament of the Holy Bible is the inspired Word of God, then you also believe that the New Testament and the Old Testament are equal in authority and value. Is that correct?
 

Reba

Retired Terp
Premium Member
2. According to 2 Tim. 3:16, and 17 "All scripture is inspired by God". Do I believe he is the Almighty God? I would had he said he was but he called God his father, only humans seem to have a problem with him being, "just" the son, but he never did!
3.Yes
If the words uttered by Jesus in the Bible are the inspired words of God, then they are not lies, correct?

John 10
25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. 26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and my Father are one.


Some humans have a problem accepting the divinity of Jesus. And yet, if Jesus wasn't divine, His shed blood wouldn't be adequate to pay the sin debt of the world. If Jesus wasn't divine, He wouldn't have been able to be Creator of the universe. But He was (and is) divine, and He did create the universe. He did put on flesh that we could see a physical form of God, and that He could bleed His sinless blood, and die for us.


John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


Jesus knew that the Scriptures forbid any person to worship anyone except God. When people worshipped Jesus as God, He didn't rebuke them. The angels worshipped the Baby Jesus. The angels never worship anyone except God.

John 20
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. 29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
 

Reba

Retired Terp
Premium Member
4. On which verses do you base your belief that God doesn't allow Christians to engage in war?
4. Matt. 26:52 "Return your sword to its place for all those who take the sword will die by the sword".
Let's use the rest of the context from Matthew:

51 And, behold, one of them which were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest's, and smote off his ear. 52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. 53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels? 54 But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?

Jesus wasn't condeming all uses of the sword. He was condemining that specific action at that time and place. He admonished His disciple to not try to use violence to stop His ordained mission, which was to die on the cross. If Jesus wanted to escape the crucifixion He could call upon the angels to smite the soldiers; He didn't need the disciple's sword. But that wouldn't fulfill the Scriptures.

2 Cor 10:3,4,
1 Now I Paul myself beseech you by the meekness and gentleness of Christ, who in presence am base among you, but being absent am bold toward you: 2 But I beseech you, that I may not be bold when I am present with that confidence, wherewith I think to be bold against some, which think of us as if we walked according to the flesh. 3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: 4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;) 5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; 6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

Paul was preaching about spiritual conflict. That conflict can't be fought with weak physical bodies and minds. It has to be fought in the strength of the Holy Spirit. It has nothing to do with earthly armies fighting each other.

Ephesians 6
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.


BTW, it's interesting that JW's didn't take the "anti-war" stance until 60 years after their founding. They didn't come up with that belief until 1939 (conveniently in time to avoid service in World War II). At least Moravians, Mennonites, Quakers, and Amish always stuck with their pacifism consistantly. They also don't mind calling upon the police to use their physical force for the protection of JW's.

Got to go for now, but I will answer the rest later.
 

Ephesians2_8

New Member
I'd say MOST of relgious people are hypocrites. They hate gay/ lesbian people but love God. :dunno2:
I don't hate gay people. In fact, My dear friend was gay. Sadly he died from diabete unexpectly and I still miss him. I hope he was saved, I did happen to bring up God to him before he died. Maybe he listened, I surely hope he did because I really want him in heaven. He was a wonderful, caring guy. Anyway, You can hate the sins they are committing, but you can still love the sinner.It is like how I hate the fact how one of my cousin cheated on her husband and caused a divorce (and pregnancy which she doesn't know if her husband or her lover is the father yet). She had everything good. A good husband who will marry her despite that she have three other kids from her previous relationship and she had to mess it all up. Just because I hate what she did to her husband, her children, and her life, doesn't mean I hate her. I still love her. Just like how anyone love a family member who disppoint them.

.....BUT, I do have a problem with people trying to change God's Words in the bible to suit their lifestyle.
 
J

JLFWildKat

Guest
I agree with that CyberRed!! I don't hate no one really. Although I am guilty of saying it to people & feeling that way. But I do know we are all Brothers & Sisters in God's way. So no matter what they do &/or say I do have a right not to believe in their doctrines either.



Well, I don't hate them. I just don't believe in their doctrines. That's all. Plain and simple.
 

800poundgorilla

New Member
I enough for me and millions of others

Let's use the rest of the context from Matthew:

51 And, behold, one of them which were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest's, and smote off his ear. 52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword. 53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels? 54 But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?

Jesus wasn't condeming all uses of the sword. He was condemining that specific action at that time and place. He admonished His disciple to not try to use violence to stop His ordained mission, which was to die on the cross. If Jesus wanted to escape the crucifixion He could call upon the angels to smite the soldiers; He didn't need the disciple's sword. But that wouldn't fulfill the Scriptures.


1 Now I Paul myself beseech you by the meekness and gentleness of Christ, who in presence am base among you, but being absent am bold toward you: 2 But I beseech you, that I may not be bold when I am present with that confidence, wherewith I think to be bold against some, which think of us as if we walked according to the flesh. 3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: 4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;) 5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; 6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

Paul was preaching about spiritual conflict. That conflict can't be fought with weak physical bodies and minds. It has to be fought in the strength of the Holy Spirit. It has nothing to do with earthly armies fighting each other.

Ephesians 6
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.


BTW, it's interesting that JW's didn't take the "anti-war" stance until 60 years after their founding. They didn't come up with that belief until 1939 (conveniently in time to avoid service in World War II). At least Moravians, Mennonites, Quakers, and Amish always stuck with their pacifism consistantly. They also don't mind calling upon the police to use their physical force for the protection of JW's.

Got to go for now, but I will answer the rest later.
I have considered all of the things that you mention here, and find them to be in my opinion not correct. I have said this before, it does not matter what I think of what you or anyone else says here, most of it comes from ignorance. I can tell you this, you owe it to yourself, and it will gain you friends in heaven, if you tell both sides of the story. An example, explain why the trinity doctrine is not excepted by everyone, and do it without bias, show also many of the scriptures that seem to indicate that Jesus was the son of God not God himself. An example, Jh. 14:28, Mark 13:32, remember also, when Jesus was called good, he said, "Why do you call me good, only one is good, the father". And why not mention where the Bible says, speaking of marriage the Bible says they will become one flesh. You know important scriptures like that. If you do not do that, I will, and I will do it without commentary, just let the scriptures speak for themselves

I can tell you this also, if you repeat a lie, you are just as guilty as those who originated the lie, you know this to be true, even if the Witnesses were disapproved by God, he would still not want us to lie about them. You are guilty of repeating outright lies, much like those who say the Witnesses have a UN alliance, flat out lie.

Now, you seem so sure of what you write here, but you should be very careful, if God is using the Witnesses, and you call them wicked, just as Jesus opposes did him, you could be guilty of the unforgivable sin. So it is one thing to list scriptures you feel support a certain line of thought, quite another to lie, just no need to take the risk.

If you do not list all the scriptures that indicate Jesus is NOT God then I will, so others who may want to see both sides can see.



By the way, the Apostle Paul was beaten many times, once left for dead, in one incident he too was saved by the Roman guard, throughout the Gospel’s and the letter’s to the congregations there was never a mention of them fighting back themselves.
The church that came around a few hundred years after Christ was gone, now they would take up arms, against anyone.

The thing that should be investigated, why did the early Christians not take up arms, and why did this new entity feel they had the right?
 

Reba

Retired Terp
Premium Member
I have considered all of the things that you mention here, and find them to be in my opinion not correct.
That's your opinion.

... An example, explain why the trinity doctrine is not excepted by everyone...
Many of the Bible's doctrines are not accepted by many people. So what? Doctrines aren't determined by popular vote; they're determined by God.

, and do it without bias, show also many of the scriptures that seem to indicate that Jesus was the son of God not God himself. An example, Jh. 14:28, Mark 13:32, remember also, when Jesus was called good, he said, "Why do you call me good, only one is good, the father".
That's right. Meaning, if Jesus is "good", and the Father is "good", then the Father and Jesus are One and the same. Simple equation.

And why not mention where the Bible says, speaking of marriage the Bible says they will become one flesh.
I'm not disputing that. What's your point?

... just let the scriptures speak for themselves...
Within context, not pieced together, right?

I can tell you this also, if you repeat a lie, you are just as guilty as those who originated the lie, you know this to be true, even if the Witnesses were disapproved by God, he would still not want us to lie about them. You are guilty of repeating outright lies, much like those who say the Witnesses have a UN alliance, flat out lie.
I've never said one word about JW's and the UN. You better be careful with your accusations. Smart ADers know how to use the "search" function on this site.

I challenge you to find and post one lie that I supposedly said. I don't mean difference of opinion or interpretation. I don't mean a typo or incomplete sentence. I mean an actual lie. You won't find one.

...if God is using the Witnesses, and you call them wicked, just as Jesus opposes did him, you could be guilty of the unforgivable sin.
I have not called them "wicked" (use that "search" feature).

Frankly, the tone of your responses don't have that "love" that you profess. In fact, the tone is sounding a bit threatening. However, it doesn't bother me, so you might want to try a different tactic.

So it is one thing to list scriptures you feel support a certain line of thought, quite another to lie, just no need to take the risk.
Again, show me a lie.

If you do not list all the scriptures that indicate Jesus is NOT God then I will, so others who may want to see both sides can see.
I don't list them because there are none. You're doing a fine job of listing (out of context) the ones that you think support your claim. I don't see you listing all the scriptures that prove Jesus is God. So?

By the way, the Apostle Paul was beaten many times, once left for dead, in one incident he too was saved by the Roman guard, throughout the Gospel’s and the letter’s to the congregations there was never a mention of them fighting back themselves.
Are you an apostle?

Is there a prohibition against warfare?

Did Jesus or an apostle tell the centurian converts that they had to resign their military commissions?

No.

The church that came around a few hundred years after Christ was gone, now they would take up arms, against anyone.
Be specific please. To which church do you refer?
 

800poundgorilla

New Member
Trinity is that who God is?

Does the Bible teach that God is some three pronged three headed multiple personality? Coming soon, what the King James version really says on the matter. with NO lame commentary from people you do not know, just the scriptures and only the scriptures.
 

800poundgorilla

New Member
http://www.sullivan-county.com/identity/trinity.htm

I lived with my fiance and we're not even married yet, still have a Bible Study with Jehovah's Witnesses and still go to the Kingdom Hall, they didn't kick us out ....

Well I've seen on Jehovah's Witnesses wears skin tight outfit didn't get kick out, but I've seen her and she's still there and she may have been told not to wears too tight I assumed ....

From what I seen what God said in the Bible ... It's true that God wants to keeps the Kingdom Hall clean, People who keeps on sinning cannot keeps on sinning, it is a serious sins against God to do something that it isn't right, if they did one wrong, they have change to do better and to repent not to sins again ...but if they choose not to change and keeps on sinning, they have to removed themselves, nobody kicks them out....

About Gay & Lesbian, it is not true that Jehovah's Witnesses hate them, not as a person, but God said in the Bible that men lie with men same as for women lie with women, he said it's distestable to him, he means ( disgusting ) immorality gross, that God is Love that he did not created a man to man and woman to woman, he created Adam and & Eve to produce children all over the earth, if God didn't made Adam & Eve, but man to man and woman to woman, there will be no US today, does that make sense ?

There is a law in the Bible for us to follow compared to the law on the earth, there are cops, judge, they give us a punishment for doing something wrong, same things with the Bible.




Trick, I thought you would find this interesting. let Me know what you think.
By the way, I do not know this guy, but it looks like he worked hard on it.
Nicene Creed and the Truth about the Trinity
 

Reba

Retired Terp
Premium Member
Does the Bible teach that God is some three pronged three headed multiple personality? Coming soon, what the King James version really says on the matter. with NO lame commentary from people you do not know, just the scriptures and only the scriptures.
800poundgorilla said:
Does the Bible teach that God is some three pronged three headed multiple personality?
No.

Coming soon, what the King James version really says on the matter. with NO lame commentary from people you do not know, just the scriptures and only the scriptures.
Promise?

Will that include complete context?
.
 
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