Feelings on how a Deaf child should be taught

[Deborah]

Originally Posted by Buffalo : If you already moved to Florida, how about having your daughter visit some girls from FSDB throughout this summer? That way she will learn ASL and feel better about it. Plus she would knows few students before she starts the school. Maybe you already plan on that?

We aren't there yet, but we hope to be there soon. We haven't been able to "link up " with many students or parents there yet. Since we aren't there yet, it is hard to do long distance. However, we DID discover a blog written by a teenage girl who is in the blind program at FSDB. Her mother also contributes to the blog, and they often post things about the school. It proved to be a great way to see things from an insiders point-of-view--they LOVE FSDB--the girl is very happy there and the mother is very pleased with it, too. Yes, the deaf and blind programs are very different, but we can see through their perspective that people at FSDB seem very nice. The girl had been mainstreaming I think, and came to FSDB for middle school--she made lots of friends, loves her teachers and classes, and is VERY happy to be there. I commented on the blog and now the mother and I have been emailing back and forth. My daughter loved looking at the photos on the blog about her "dream school." If we could find more blogs like this one, it would be great! She would love to find a teenage girl in the deaf program online--she is looking through things like MySpace and Facebook--no luck yet. Maybe soon she can connect this way first, then meet some of her classmates in person as soon as we move. For now, she feels as if she already has one friend there this way--she would like to find more! I know the internet has it's danger zones, but it can be a great way to facilitate things like this when you can't physically be where you want to be yet. We even considered deaf summer camps, but they seemed to only be for Florida residents. We are trying very hard to become residents, but we are not yet, so there are some things we just can't do yet. Hopefully we will be very soon though!

 

[shel90]

Originally Posted by Buffalo : If you already moved to Florida, how about having your daughter visit some girls from FSDB throughout this summer? That way she will learn ASL and feel better about it. Plus she would knows few students before she starts the school. Maybe you already plan on that?

We aren't there yet, but we hope to be there soon. We haven't been able to "link up " with many students or parents there yet. Since we aren't there yet, it is hard to do long distance. However, we DID discover a blog written by a teenage girl who is in the blind program at FSDB. Her mother also contributes to the blog, and they often post things about the school. It proved to be a great way to see things from an insiders point-of-view--they LOVE FSDB--the girl is very happy there and the mother is very pleased with it, too. Yes, the deaf and blind programs are very different, but we can see through their perspective that people at FSDB seem very nice. The girl had been mainstreaming I think, and came to FSDB for middle school--she made lots of friends, loves her teachers and classes, and is VERY happy to be there. I commented on the blog and now the mother and I have been emailing back and forth. My daughter loved looking at the photos on the blog about her "dream school." If we could find more blogs like this one, it would be great! She would love to find a teenage girl in the deaf program online--she is looking through things like MySpace and Facebook--no luck yet. Maybe soon she can connect this way first, then meet some of her classmates in person as soon as we move. For now, she feels as if she already has one friend there this way--she would like to find more! I know the internet has it's danger zones, but it can be a great way to facilitate things like this when you can't physically be where you want to be yet. We even considered deaf summer camps, but they seemed to only be for Florida residents. We are trying very hard to become residents, but we are not yet, so there are some things we just can't do yet. Hopefully we will be very soon though!

Do you want only deaf teenaged girls from FSBD or from any deaf sschools?

 

[Deborah]

CART is a transcribing service. It has pluses and minuses. One of the drawbacks is that a child who is language delayed, or is deficient in reading skills, will not be able to keep up with the transcription. Most often, transcription services do not provide a written transcript. The student reads the transcription during class from a computer terminal.

\

Oh, ok--like a "running commentary" as things are being said. Hmm... yeah, that would be MUCH better if it was then transferred into print, printed out at the end of class, and given to each student. I do like the idea of real time captioning, though--it can help clarify things sometimes. However, a student may have trouble knowing where to focus if they are having to always stare at the captioning screen. I don't know--I just like the idea of everything being translated into printed English--and a printed out hard copy would be a great study tool. The BEST thing would be to have a written transcript given to each student. If not, then I can see how it is almost a completely different tool otherwise. Hey, I am hearing, but I often wish that life worked a bit like closed-captioning tv, followed by a printed transcript afterward. I am definitely a visual learner--no matter how much I hear, I still prefer to have as much as possible in written or other visual format. I would imagine that is the case with deaf/hh people, too--what invention still needs to be made to facilitate that? If everyone could somehow walk around with a device that translates everything into print, saves it into memory, and can be printed out later--that sounds great! I can think of things that partially fit that need, but not completely--is there anything out there that would do all of that? If so, I want one!

 

[Deborah]

Originally Posted by Buffalo : If you already moved to Florida, how about having your daughter visit some girls from FSDB throughout this summer? That way she will learn ASL and feel better about it. Plus she would knows few students before she starts the school. Maybe you already plan on that?

Do you want only deaf teenaged girls from FSBD or from any deaf sschools?

Well ANY deaf teenage girls with blogs out there would be great, of course! But she is REALLY trying hard to find people who go to FSDB to see things from their perspective--to get to know FSDB a bit better from afar, know what I mean? But, yeah, if there are any blogs that deaf teen girls are keeping, she would LOVE to check them out!

 

[shel90]

Well ANY deaf teenage girls with blogs out there would be great, of course! But she is REALLY trying hard to find people who go to FSDB to see things from their perspective--to get to know FSDB a bit better from afar, know what I mean? But, yeah, if there are any blogs that deaf teen girls are keeping, she would LOVE to check them out!

I can ask around...

 

[AlleyCat]

I just read this whole thread for the first time. My ex-husband is at my house right now so I had a conversation with him. He grew up fully oral, he was not even aware of sign language until his late teen years (he grew up in a very small town with no other deaf children that he knew of.) Once he became aware of sign language he decided to attend NTID/RIT. There, he learned sign language extremely quickly because of his age and being fully immersed in a deaf environment. He now has many friends who are deaf and sign (as well as hearing friends.)

It is my opinion that a person cannot realistically miss what they never had or experienced, so I asked him this question: "Had he not attended NTID and learned ASL, his life would likely still be oral." (He agrees.) "But now that he does know ASL and his life is full of deaf friends who sign, did he ever wish he was still just oral to this day?" His answer was definitely no. He didn't know that way of life (using ASL) before attending NTID so he didn't "miss" that there was another culture out there, but now that he does know ASL, he feels his life is very enriched, especially from a social aspect.

Just food for thought ...

 

[jillio]

\

Oh, ok--like a "running commentary" as things are being said. Hmm... yeah, that would be MUCH better if it was then transferred into print, printed out at the end of class, and given to each student. I do like the idea of real time captioning, though--it can help clarify things sometimes. However, a student may have trouble knowing where to focus if they are having to always stare at the captioning screen. I don't know--I just like the idea of everything being translated into printed English--and a printed out hard copy would be a great study tool. The BEST thing would be to have a written transcript given to each student. If not, then I can see how it is almost a completely different tool otherwise. Hey, I am hearing, but I often wish that life worked a bit like closed-captioning tv, followed by a printed transcript afterward. I am definitely a visual learner--no matter how much I hear, I still prefer to have as much as possible in written or other visual format. I would imagine that is the case with deaf/hh people, too--what invention still needs to be made to facilitate that? If everyone could somehow walk around with a device that translates everything into print, saves it into memory, and can be printed out later--that sounds great! I can think of things that partially fit that need, but not completely--is there anything out there that would do all of that? If so, I want one!

Well, CART and other transcription services can provide a written transcript, but generally it is not used that way in an educational atmosphere. It is considered sufficient accommodation if a student is provided with a visual for the material that hearing students are getting orally. Unless we allow all hearing students to tape record lecture and classroom instruction, it is considered uneccessary to provide a written transcript that can be accessed outside of class for the deaf student.

 

[jillio]

I just read this whole thread for the first time. My ex-husband is at my house right now so I had a conversation with him. He grew up fully oral, he was not even aware of sign language until his late teen years (he grew up in a very small town with no other deaf children that he knew of.) Once he became aware of sign language he decided to attend NTID/RIT. There, he learned sign language extremely quickly because of his age and being fully immersed in a deaf environment. He now has many friends who are deaf and sign (as well as hearing friends.)

It is my opinion that a person cannot realistically miss what they never had or experienced, so I asked him this question: "Had he not attended NTID and learned ASL, his life would likely still be oral." (He agrees.) "But now that he does know ASL and his life is full of deaf friends who sign, did he ever wish he was still just oral to this day?" His answer was definitely no. He didn't know that way of life (using ASL) before attending NTID so he didn't "miss" that there was another culture out there, but now that he does know ASL, he feels his life is very enriched, especially from a social aspect.

Just food for thought ...

And excellent food for thought at that. I have often said that those who have been oral all of their lives will say that they are satisfied with it because they have no comparison.

 

[jillio]

Well ANY deaf teenage girls with blogs out there would be great, of course! But she is REALLY trying hard to find people who go to FSDB to see things from their perspective--to get to know FSDB a bit better from afar, know what I mean? But, yeah, if there are any blogs that deaf teen girls are keeping, she would LOVE to check them out!

You could contact the counselor at FSDB, and see if she would find some girls your daughter's age that would be willing to correspond with her via email. It would also be a great way for all of them to practice their English writing skills.

 

[shel90]

I just read this whole thread for the first time. My ex-husband is at my house right now so I had a conversation with him. He grew up fully oral, he was not even aware of sign language until his late teen years (he grew up in a very small town with no other deaf children that he knew of.) Once he became aware of sign language he decided to attend NTID/RIT. There, he learned sign language extremely quickly because of his age and being fully immersed in a deaf environment. He now has many friends who are deaf and sign (as well as hearing friends.)

It is my opinion that a person cannot realistically miss what they never had or experienced, so I asked him this question: "Had he not attended NTID and learned ASL, his life would likely still be oral." (He agrees.) "But now that he does know ASL and his life is full of deaf friends who sign, did he ever wish he was still just oral to this day?" His answer was definitely no. He didn't know that way of life (using ASL) before attending NTID so he didn't "miss" that there was another culture out there, but now that he does know ASL, he feels his life is very enriched, especially from a social aspect.

Just food for thought ...

I am in the exact same shoes as your ex-hubby. I thought being oral was all that until I learned ASL and got involved with the Deaf community. Like Jillo said, I had nothing to compare it with so I thought it was the best for me. Thank god I discovered ASL and the Deaf community cuz I cant imagine how miserable my life would be now being oral-only. *Shudders*

 

[deafdyke]

how about having your daughter visit some girls from FSDB throughout this summer? That way she will learn ASL and feel better about it. Plus she would knows few students before she starts the school.

Or how abt seeing if there's a summer camp style program at FSDB?

 

[Buffalo]

Or how abt seeing if there's a summer camp style program at FSDB?

Good idea! if not, then look around for a summer camp for the Deaf in Florida or close by. I have been to a summer camp for the Deaf (Michigan) and it was fun.

 

[iaskedalice09]

Hi! From your entry, I am assuming that you are a high school student...right? I would love to hear more about your experience in the "regular" high school--and I really hope that you continue to post here when you are a student at the Deaf school so that we can see things from "an inside view." I am also curious about the oral/ASL/Bi-Bi issue--from what you wrote, I am assuming that your family is oral and hearing and that you were raised orally--is that the case? If so, did you learn ASL through Teachers of the Deaf in mainstream schools? I am trying to see if your experience is anything like my daughter's--hearing family/wears hearing aids and hears well with them/learned to speak by listening with her hearing aids/spoken English is her first language and she LOVES to talk/went to mainstreamed public schools and was the only deaf student for years/now wants to go to school with other deaf teenagers--trying to move to Florida and enroll in FSDB--oh, and she is trying to learn ASL through Teachers of the Deaf so that she can communicate with ALL deaf people(those who speak, those who sign, those who do both).

I hope you will pardon my "wordiness"--I just get a bit excited when I meet another deaf teenager who may be feeling as my daughter is feeling. I have found a lot of information from deaf adults who can look back at their experiences in the past as deaf teenagers, but it is rare to actually communicate with a deaf teen who is currently going through these issues. If there is a way to link my daughter into a "deaf teen message board" I would love to do it--she NEEDS that connection and it is hard to find it!

Oh, and one more question--can you tell us a bit more about your feelings in different situations? Like, you said you prefer Bi-Bi--is that usually "voice off"? Is that when you are successfully communicating with others through ASL only? What about when communicating with other "oral deaf" teens? See, my daughter just wants to make some friends her age, who are deaf and wear hearing aids, and who talk to her. She wants to learn sign to communicate with other deaf people too, but she does NOT want to "turn her voice off" or "give up her voice"--she loves to talk too much! As far as I can see, FSDB seems to have a "total communication" kind of atmosphere--from what I have learned from this board, that seems very different than a school that is more "Bi-Bi". My daughter would not feel comfortable in a school where there is a lot of pressure to "turn her voice off"--that just is not for her. Can you tell us a bit more about your feelings about Bi-Bi? I am trying to understand--and I am also seeing how very different deaf schools can be regarding communication issues. In other words, some deaf schools would be a good fit for some, but a bad fit for others--and vice versa. How can we compare based solely on the fact that they are "deaf schools"? We need to know their "communication philosophy" and their "communication atmosphere" to see if they would or would not be a "good fit" for us or our children. I hope that the school that you will be attending is a "good fit" for you--and I hope you have a very happy and successful high school career!

Deborah,
I am so sorry for being so incredibly tardy in my reply.

Yes, I am oral Deaf family hearing no sign. My godmother is a CODA, and used ASL with me in her lifetime.

I feel BiBi is the philosophy of using a person's first language to teach a second. For me, that'd be English, for another, that's ASL. I am pretty comfortable with ASL but not fully, so the interaction voice-off is good. Generally my teachers do NOT voice, except the old, experienced ones; they SimCom.

As I do have 3 years of formal ASL classes under my belt from an excellent TOD, I am more comfortable socially in OSD than a kid with NO ASL experience. But don't worry, ASL classes are provided for students and family!

If your daughter is socially starved, it is imperative that you get her in the Deaf World. MANY Deaf speak -- so many Deaf teachers voice in private meetings with students. We see Deaf adults like Shel, and realise we really CAN do anything we want to. I've learned to interact with many different kinds of people - whose English is not good. I have many friends who are strict ASL. The point is, that they feel OK with it rather than ashamed. A Deaf school's greatest lesson that it can give its students is that you are fine being Deaf - speaking, speaking and signing, etc. whatever. Deaf is fine! OK! We have many Deaf adults here and to have never seen one until recently has demolished much of my self-image as a Deaf person.

I suggest you go with your daughter's feelings. Does she feel comfortable in that ambience? Go see a few classes, see how it's done. See a class with a Deaf teacher. Go see LUNCH TIME and if possible see Rec hour.

Speaking is permitted but understand the need for flexibility and openness. If you are able to speak, and are requested to do so, it is only polite. Similarly, if you speak only and no signs without permission, you could be penalised. I was almost written up for disrespect that I forgot to sign and speak!

I feel the worst aspect of general education on the Deaf is social. There's no positive Deaf role models, you're generally an outcast - even if you speak well -, and so many people see you as different. Pity is NOT tolerated at Deaf schools that are strongly held and controlled by the Deaf, because we're Deaf too!

There's only so much you're just like everyone else until the child's anger boils over. We KNOW that's a lie. We're different but we CAN do everything, we have a right to access language, and we are not stupid and not disabled by our deafness. Where can a Deaf person learn that, but from the Deaf World?

 

[jillio]

Deborah,
I am so sorry for being so incredibly tardy in my reply.

Yes, I am oral Deaf family hearing no sign. My godmother is a CODA, and used ASL with me in her lifetime.

I feel BiBi is the philosophy of using a person's first language to teach a second. For me, that'd be English, for another, that's ASL. I am pretty comfortable with ASL but not fully, so the interaction voice-off is good. Generally my teachers do NOT voice, except the old, experienced ones; they SimCom.

As I do have 3 years of formal ASL classes under my belt from an excellent TOD, I am more comfortable socially in OSD than a kid with NO ASL experience. But don't worry, ASL classes are provided for students and family!

If your daughter is socially starved, it is imperative that you get her in the Deaf World. MANY Deaf speak -- so many Deaf teachers voice in private meetings with students. We see Deaf adults like Shel, and realise we really CAN do anything we want to. I've learned to interact with many different kinds of people - whose English is not good. I have many friends who are strict ASL. The point is, that they feel OK with it rather than ashamed. A Deaf school's greatest lesson that it can give its students is that you are fine being Deaf - speaking, speaking and signing, etc. whatever. Deaf is fine! OK! We have many Deaf adults here and to have never seen one until recently has demolished much of my self-image as a Deaf person.

I suggest you go with your daughter's feelings. Does she feel comfortable in that ambience? Go see a few classes, see how it's done. See a class with a Deaf teacher. Go see LUNCH TIME and if possible see Rec hour.

Speaking is permitted but understand the need for flexibility and openness. If you are able to speak, and are requested to do so, it is only polite. Similarly, if you speak only and no signs without permission, you could be penalised. I was almost written up for disrespect that I forgot to sign and speak!

I feel the worst aspect of general education on the Deaf is social. There's no positive Deaf role models, you're generally an outcast - even if you speak well -, and so many people see you as different. Pity is NOT tolerated at Deaf schools that are strongly held and controlled by the Deaf, because we're Deaf too!

There's only so much you're just like everyone else until the child's anger boils over. We KNOW that's a lie. We're different but we CAN do everything, we have a right to access language, and we are not stupid and not disabled by our deafness. Where can a Deaf person learn that, but from the Deaf World?

Thanks for sharing your perspective as a deaf student!

 

[shel90]

Deborah,
I am so sorry for being so incredibly tardy in my reply.

Yes, I am oral Deaf family hearing no sign. My godmother is a CODA, and used ASL with me in her lifetime.

I feel BiBi is the philosophy of using a person's first language to teach a second. For me, that'd be English, for another, that's ASL. I am pretty comfortable with ASL but not fully, so the interaction voice-off is good. Generally my teachers do NOT voice, except the old, experienced ones; they SimCom.

As I do have 3 years of formal ASL classes under my belt from an excellent TOD, I am more comfortable socially in OSD than a kid with NO ASL experience. But don't worry, ASL classes are provided for students and family!

If your daughter is socially starved, it is imperative that you get her in the Deaf World. MANY Deaf speak -- so many Deaf teachers voice in private meetings with students. We see Deaf adults like Shel, and realise we really CAN do anything we want to. I've learned to interact with many different kinds of people - whose English is not good. I have many friends who are strict ASL. The point is, that they feel OK with it rather than ashamed. A Deaf school's greatest lesson that it can give its students is that you are fine being Deaf - speaking, speaking and signing, etc. whatever. Deaf is fine! OK! We have many Deaf adults here and to have never seen one until recently has demolished much of my self-image as a Deaf person.

I suggest you go with your daughter's feelings. Does she feel comfortable in that ambience? Go see a few classes, see how it's done. See a class with a Deaf teacher. Go see LUNCH TIME and if possible see Rec hour.

Speaking is permitted but understand the need for flexibility and openness. If you are able to speak, and are requested to do so, it is only polite. Similarly, if you speak only and no signs without permission, you could be penalised. I was almost written up for disrespect that I forgot to sign and speak!

I feel the worst aspect of general education on the Deaf is social. There's no positive Deaf role models, you're generally an outcast - even if you speak well -, and so many people see you as different. Pity is NOT tolerated at Deaf schools that are strongly held and controlled by the Deaf, because we're Deaf too!

There's only so much you're just like everyone else until the child's anger boils over. We KNOW that's a lie. We're different but we CAN do everything, we have a right to access language, and we are not stupid and not disabled by our deafness. Where can a Deaf person learn that, but from the Deaf World?

I agree with u on all counts especially our rights to access to language. that's my big battle here.

 

[prayerflag]

Shel90,

I put up a thread today titled 'residential versus mainstream education - which best?" I'm gathering information for a class assignment on this topic and would love to have your personal perspective specific to my questions. My post and profile will tell you more.
Any other sources you could suggest would also be helpful.

Thanks for being so prolific,
prayerflag

 

[prayerflag]

iaskedalice09,
You gave so much info above, I'd like to ask you two questions? Could you respond to my thread on "residential versus mainstream education - which best?". I know you've already given much, but specific input from you would be great. Also, may I use information you've offered in responding to my current class assignment? My post and profile will tell you more.

Thanks for all you've shared,
prayerflag

 

[prayerflag]

Deborah,
For an unbiased view of deaf education, you might try 'Hands and Voices' at handsandvoices.org. They do not take a stand on which is best, and seem to promote whatever type of education is the best fit for each individual child. You can reach the director, Leeanne Seaver, at the following:

www.parentadvocate@handsandvoices.org
OR
1-866-422-0422
OR
Hands and Voices National
P.O. Box 445
Carthage, IL 62321

I spoke with her today - she was very helpful.

Good luck in your continuing efforts with your daughter; such commitment on your part can only mean good things in the future.

Sincerely,
prayerflag