Do You Want To Protect Yourself From Attack?

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seb

Well-Known Member
its not nuts at all.

if someone targets that joint, he may get some or so,,,he wont get 50...

can you not see why?

besides.
the likelihood of someone targeting an armed to the teeth joint is rather small wouldn't you think?

prevention goes along way
and the best way is to have an armed known deterrent

being sitting ducks does no one any favours besides the kill
.
as orlando clearly demonstrate
YOU'VE GIVEN UP AND GONE TO THE END DEFENSE BEFORE EVEN TRYING TO STOP THE GUY! I THINK YOU WERE ALIVE IN CHICAGO IN THE 20'S IN A PAST LIFE.
 

Foxrac

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
New York State and New York City gives their police officers 100% of there base pay, but that is after working I believe 30 years and being 62 years old. Since they top out at about $70 grand that's okay with me. In CA, Highway patrol make 100 grand a year after their probationary period and many cities pay the same and they can retire with 95% once their numbers (age and years of service) hit 80. Problem here is they can load up their "base pay" to inflate their retirement and also cash in sick time, personal days, vacation, etc. This is only the cops, the firemen and other state workers have similar retirements. As I said the state is bankrupt and will be for years to come.
Not surprised, that why I'm not fan of unions, including police unions and they are doing all damage to state and local government, see Detroit and Chicago as great example.

In Alabama, anyone who use state pension so they can retire with 50% of pay base after 20 years of service, but they are replacing with independent contractors nowadays.
 

Calvin

In Hazzard County
Super Moderator
Premium Member
YOU'VE GIVEN UP AND GONE TO THE END DEFENSE BEFORE EVEN TRYING TO STOP THE GUY! I THINK YOU WERE ALIVE IN CHICAGO IN THE 20'S IN A PAST LIFE.
Please tone down with the CAPS. Thank you.
 

Foxrac

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
At the time that TCS and I retired, that was correct. Twenty years minimum for 50% base pay for retired active duty, and then pro-rated up to 30 years, which was capped at 75%.

It's changing now. I don't fully understand all the changes. For a short period, current members can opt for the current program (grandfathered in) or the new program. New members have to accept the new program, which will be more like a contributory 401k (from my understanding in chatting with friends currently on active duty). Even they didn't have a clear understanding of the changes.
Yes, that what my mother told me that US military reformed the retirement system to save money.

It could make US military more less appealing to young people, but minimum wage jobs are no better either.
 

seb

Well-Known Member
No, we don't know that for sure. A metal detector isn't necessary to know someone is shooting a rifle at the front entrance. Duh! The shooter starts shooting before going thru a detector when there is one present.
You are right and that's why they need more than one armed person at the door. The security at the Pulse was a joke! Someone shooting it out with Mateen who was armed with a SIG as you stated has a distinct advantage over one off duty cop armed with his service revolver. I think you will agree with that. Mateen tried to buy body armor prior to the attack and was turned down by the shop owner, however, it hasn't been reported as to whether he had been successful in purchasing it elsewhere, so if he had, he also then would of had a bigger advantage.
 

Foxrac

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
You are right and that's why they need more than one armed person at the door. The security at the Pulse was a joke! Someone shooting it out with Mateen who was armed with a SIG as you stated has a distinct advantage over one off duty cop armed with his service revolver. I think you will agree with that. Mateen tried to buy body armor prior to the attack and was turned down by the shop owner, however, it hasn't been reported as to whether he had been successful in purchasing it elsewhere, so if he had, he also then would of had a bigger advantage.
I'm wonder about who won? armed bouncer with pistol or crazy shooter with SIG or AR-15? I think crazy shooter has more advantage if he know about tactical and could handle to kill the armed bouncer.

Also bouncer in Orlando is off duty police officer.
 

hoichi

Well-Known Member
AND THAT IS WHY YOU NEED TO MAKE THE CLUB HARDER TO GET INTO. INSTALL MULTIPLE ENTRANCES THAT CAN BE LOCKED DOWN WITH A PUSH OF A BUTTON, YOU HAVE TO HAVE LAYERS OF DEFENSE. ONCE HE GETS INSIDE, YOU HAVE LOST THE WAR!
you want to lock down a club full of unarmed people as a killer roams picking them off?
yes indeed layers of defense..




SO WHAT EXACTLY ALLOWED THE KILLER TO ENTER THE CLUB? TALKING IN RIDDLES AGAIN, I SEE!
no riddles. not for those who can read english anyway.
to answer your question again.
what allowed the killer into the club was the killers action in firing his weapon ie shooting...

NO, I GUESS I CAN'T BUT I HOPE YOU CAN FINALLY LET THIS ONE OUT OF THE BAG!
whos bag your suckin?

DO YOU THINK THAT ONE OFFICER WITH A HANDGUN HAD A CHANCE AGAINST MATEEN ARMED WITH AN ASSAULT RIFLE WITH A HIGH CAPACITY MAGAZINE. NOTHING WAS IN PLACE TO STOP THIS GUY AND ONE ARMED OFF DUTY POLICEMAN WASN'T GOING TO DO IT.
do you think a room full of unarmed defenseless people stood a chance against matteen?
the cop was working. he was armed. he wasn't on duty he was still working for whom hired him.
he was armed. the fact he wasnton duty is irrelevant.
certainly si to the cop. he will arrest you just the same..
he engaged the killer

AND THAT IS WHY YOU NEED TO MAKE THE CLUB HARDER TO GET INTO. INSTALL MULTIPLE ENTRANCES THAT CAN BE LOCKED DOWN WITH A PUSH OF A BUTTON, YOU HAVE TO HAVE LAYERS OF DEFENSE. ONCE HE GETS INSIDE, YOU HAVE LOST THE WAR!
those locked down places with a push of a switch full of defenseless unarmed people are also known as death traps.
staying put and waiting to get picked off is not..how can i put this
its not most conducive to your survival.

if you are unable to engage the assailant.
then evade and escape at all costs..

sitting or layign on the floor as he wanders around blasting is well...
look

that's for victims.

if you don't want to be a victim start with your mind.

this reminds me of a discussion i had with my boys teacher at his school.
where they do these silly drills that in their eyes seems safe..

you know
huddle the kids in the room and wait to get killed....

nuts...

(shakes head)
just nuts

it just comes down to what your made of i guess.
most will be the sacrificed victim.
 

hoichi

Well-Known Member
You are right and that's why they need more than one armed person at the door. The security at the Pulse was a joke! Someone shooting it out with Mateen who was armed with a SIG as you stated has a distinct advantage over one off duty cop armed with his service revolver. I think you will agree with that. Mateen tried to buy body armor prior to the attack and was turned down by the shop owner, however, it hasn't been reported as to whether he had been successful in purchasing it elsewhere, so if he had, he also then would of had a bigger advantage.
the cop being off duty is irrelevant.
the cop was working.
he was armed.
he was there for a reason.

the idea to have 2 or more armed personal at every single soft target or potential target environment in your nation by some entity or whatnot is absurd.

having people arm and defend themselves will do that at more...to address the plm.
 
Cop was there for a reason... Yup. To break up the odd fight that might break out. To get rid of "over-served"... yada yada.

Seb, you say the security was a joke. You're absolutely right. It's almost like the old joke. Everyone broght a knife to a gun fight.

You mentioned metal detectors at HUGE venues of 20 to 80 thousand people. OK fine. A college football game, FOR EXAMPLE, If 50,000 people spend $50 bucks the place just grossed $2,500,000. I think you miss completely the difference between a club and the huge venues you sight as examples for metal detectors.

Again, this cat was a long time patron. Known to security. That's got to play a role for him to gain entrance. That and lead flying, I suppose.

I cannot imagine how your suggestion of metal detectors and multiple armed guards is remotelly economically feasible. It's just plain not. To say nothing of who the hell would want to party in a locked down cell block. Unless you're into that sort of thing!

I continually wonder what it is about FREEDOM that scares people. Soooo many want a rulling class nowadays. It's really stunning to an old man!!
 

Foxrac

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Oh meh. This thread needs to be closed fast. It should never have been started in the first place.
The mod take care of it and if happen again so this thread will be locked up.

I'm interested to learn from Seb and Reba about pension issues and discuss about gun topics.
 

Calvin

In Hazzard County
Super Moderator
Premium Member
Oh meh. This thread needs to be closed fast. It should never have been started in the first place.
I agree, I think we all tried our points here but it's not getting anywhere with ridiculous arguments here.

Thread is now closed.
 
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