Deaf Protest, Washington, DC., Sept. 6-9

Zeo

The Debater
Premium Member
OK, if you didn't answer my questions, it could be that you got a job because you are able to hear through a HA or CI and speak well so it indicates that you can't speak for others.

As a matter of a fact, I have a job for 31 years and I am profoundly deaf. How did I get this job? USPS is a semi-government agency so they are required to hire deaf people. Don't you see?

How did you get your job? Do you work for a private company? Do you have a college degree? After you answer them willingly, then we can start comparing yours with others.
I only got one part-time job a while ago and it's basically one of your regular stores, they was amazed by how quickly I work with restocking the stuffs. I worked for a few months at that time because I simply needed some extra cash to for some things before I quit.

I used the VRS for some helps as well but it's normal for most deaf people to use the VRS because they provide you the tools and resources used to help with your job/college. My high school's education require all of us to take few classes related with your career development skills which can help you be prepared to get the job when you're ready. Some deaf people didn't get the job just because they can't hear, yes... But you have to realize there's people like Charlton that came in demanding a job when he literally have no skills and appropriate education that would help him with the jobs. Oh wait... He didn't even came in to demand the jobs, he only set up the deaf protest because he couldn't get special treatments for being deaf such as discount at some fast-food restaurant.

I am curious about you... Did you read the whole thread yet? If so, you'll see why some of us don't really support their goals/missions because they're just doing this just for their own personal agendas, not to help the deaf community. There's also lack of communication, lack of evidence, lack of organization, and more to the reasons mainly why protest won't be too successful.

Please do note that I am deaf and blind (Usher's syndrome), so I basically have two disabilities in one, but it doesn't let me get in ways when it come to stuffs like jobs and colleges. I plan to go to a university to major in fashion design but I already have some experience from high school. I've made some good money selling few clothes to few of my clients at one point.

You should use your own disability to enhance yourself, not to enable yourself.
 

CrazyPaul

Active Member
I only got one part-time job a while ago and it's basically one of your regular stores, they was amazed by how quickly I work with restocking the stuffs. I worked for a few months at that time because I simply needed some extra cash to for some things before I quit.

I used the VRS for some helps as well but it's normal for most deaf people to use the VRS because they provide you the tools and resources used to help with your job/college. My high school's education require all of us to take few classes related with your career development skills which can help you be prepared to get the job when you're ready. Some deaf people didn't get the job just because they can't hear, yes... But you have to realize there's people like Charlton that came in demanding a job when he literally have no skills and appropriate education that would help him with the jobs. Oh wait... He didn't even came in to demand the jobs, he only set up the deaf protest because he couldn't get special treatments for being deaf such as discount at some fast-food restaurant.

I am curious about you... Did you read the whole thread yet? If so, you'll see why some of us don't really support their goals/missions because they're just doing this just for their own personal agendas, not to help the deaf community. There's also lack of communication, lack of evidence, lack of organization, and more to the reasons mainly why protest won't be too successful.

Please do note that I am deaf and blind (Usher's syndrome), so I basically have two disabilities in one, but it doesn't let me get in ways when it come to stuffs like jobs and colleges. I plan to go to a university to major in fashion design but I already have some experience from high school. I've made some good money selling few clothes to few of my clients at one point.

You should use your own disability to enhance yourself, not to enable yourself.
Do you know what the protest is all about? Not about Charlton at all. Those people who participated it asked for better education, more jobs for deaf people without discrimination, better communication methods for deaf people.

Solidarity, as Hoichi talked about is needed for all deaf communities so please support it. Thanks, Zeo.
 

DeafDucky

Well-Known Member
Unemployment means people who are actively looking for a job.
it gets tricky because of how the government 'counts' the unemployed... there are those who are counted when they are collecting unemployment benefits, SSI, SSDI, retirement etc... then there are those who aren't counted who are not actively looking and don't have any means of income that can easily be tracked. I was in that second category 10 years ago- I had zero income even though i was actively looking for work it's likely I was not counted in any sort of statistics. So the % of unemployed- disabled or not may be skewed and not totally accurate.

I don't know who you are. Do you speak well? Do you wear a HA or CI to be able to hear others? After you answer them, I would like to discuss more with you. If you don't want to answer them, alright all of your posts are invalid.
Solidarity, as Hoichi talked about is needed for all deaf communities so please support it. Thanks, Zeo.
What does Zeo's status as a deaf person have to do with anything? Does it really matter that much? if you have read other posts in the forum, I believe there were others that Zeo made that explained who she was including that she has Usher's. A bit dismissive to tell her that her posts are invalid just because she may not or won't tell you everything about herself.

Multiple posts of hers has stated that she does support and wants solidarity for the deaf community, there's no reason why she can't question how this first protest was brought about, how it was done etc. Last I checked a person can express their concerns/question the leaders but still support the deaf community and the idea behind the protest.

So... did you go to the protest?
 

CrazyPaul

Active Member
it gets tricky because of how the government 'counts' the unemployed... there are those who are counted when they are collecting unemployment benefits, SSI, SSDI, retirement etc... then there are those who aren't counted who are not actively looking and don't have any means of income that can easily be tracked. I was in that second category 10 years ago- I had zero income even though i was actively looking for work it's likely I was not counted in any sort of statistics. So the % of unemployed- disabled or not may be skewed and not totally accurate.




What does Zeo's status as a deaf person have to do with anything? Does it really matter that much? if you have read other posts in the forum, I believe there were others that Zeo made that explained who she was including that she has Usher's. A bit dismissive to tell her that her posts are invalid just because she may not or won't tell you everything about herself.

Multiple posts of hers has stated that she does support and wants solidarity for the deaf community, there's no reason why she can't question how this first protest was brought about, how it was done etc. Last I checked a person can express their concerns/question the leaders but still support the deaf community and the idea behind the protest.

So... did you go to the protest?
It doesn't matter if I went to the protest or not. I support it regardless of wherever I am. All I ask for is solidarity and that all of you, including you and Zeo hope that it will be successful. Don't be negative.

I saw the video that RR linked and it made me cry happily because I am so proud of them. Did you cry happily? I doubt it.
 

Zeo

The Debater
Premium Member
Do you know what the protest is all about? Not about Charlton at all. Those people who participated it asked for better education, more jobs for deaf people without discrimination, better communication methods for deaf people.

Solidarity, as Hoichi talked about is needed for all deaf communities so please support it. Thanks, Zeo.
You seem to not know the true background of why was deaf protest was set up. They only set up the deaf protest mainly for their own personal agendas, not for the deaf people. I've told you to read the thread yet you plus few others seem to have push away the perspectives, opinions, and facts. I guess there's nothing's stopping you from blindly supporting the deaf protest without actually knowing the real reason why they did it. No, they didn't do it mainly for deaf at di rst but Charlton decided to throw in the recognization for others because he knew it'll help him with his own personal agendas.

DeafDucky explained it really well and I couldn't have said it better myself. Just because I don't support the protest does not mean I don't support the deaf community and their issues... I wasn't supporting the deaf protest because their goals are mainly for selfish reasons and they expect to get everything handed to them on the platter.

Like I said... We should use our deafness to enhance us, not to enable us.
 

diehardbiker

Active Member
I perfectly understand about disabilities cover deaf, blind, CP, medical related, etc but that's not what I means. It is depending on categories.

70%+ unemployment is true for born deaf (severe to profoundly) who use ASL.

50% unemployment (possibly less than 50%) is true for late-deafened or born HoH with oral language.

The communication barrier is major factor.

Don't forget about real unemployment for general population so it means for people with hearing loss can be ridiculously higher - see U-6.
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t15.htm

There is problem - if you live on SSI or SSDI so you are not employed or unemployed, but it means you are basically not in labor.

Unemployment means people who are actively looking for a job.

Combine with unemployment with not in labor for deaf people can be very high as 70%+ - that's reasoning.
Yes, this incliudes everyody, not just disabled. dept of labor counts ONLY people who are currently actively searching for job, they don't count those who gave up looking for job, doing part time or odd jobs, that is where the statistic gives misleading information.

zeo could see for himself or herself by looking around see how many Deafies actally works at, just go food store, restaurants, shop, see if there is any Deafies working there. The truth is we have many Deafies around but sadly we don't see many of them working

For instance, here in Rochester, we have around 10% thats Deaf living here, often I see places where they hire 1000+ employees, I rarely see more than 5, do the math 1000 employee with 5 Deaf working for, that equals 1/2% Deaf in hearing working, what happened with 9-1/2%?

How often did you see Deaf driving 18 wheelers? We have hundred thousands of truck drivers, only few are Deaf, way way below a fraction of a percentage! If there isn't any discrimination, we will be seeing more truck drivers thats Deaf (Its small but finally starting to grow)

my point is, if you look harder and check how many Deaf people work in any place, you will likely not find many.... something is wrong with this.
 

SneakerNet

Retired
Premium Member
I have to jump in. I have been holding back myself until I saw this message “communication barrier is the major factor”. There are more to it, not only just communication barrier, it about cognitive thinking process, language they use in working world and continuing to educate myself. As you all aware, maybe not that I manage IT, I authorize, choose, research, control everything within the IT department. They are the upmost respect for me and my IT abilities and they are grateful for this. I have someone here in this site said “You sound like filthy rich”! I hold back and I didn’t response to this, but I’ll make a confession, yes I make 6 digits income due to my successful hard working career. How did I made it this far? Not because I’m hearing impaired wearing hearing aids or because I’m oral, speaking well. It’s because I continue to educate myself. Example: read, read, read and study anything related to IT so I can feel equal with them, I attend training, I push myself hard to see what new technology out there. I read anything that I thought it’s a great method or setup for my company. And last, I train myself to learn how to make a better communication with hearing world. Need to understand their hearing communication, instead of fighting and must meet deaf way (I’m not talking about ADA law or requirements), I’m talking about intelligent. When I say intelligent, I’m not talking about having real high IQ. I’m talking about everyone have unique intelligent, but there are some factor involved. Their cognitive thinking process. I’ll give you one example: In one of my interview, I was interviewing deaf person for Systems Administrator position and one question I asked, “What is your weakness?”, I waited for his reaction, he did startled a bit then his reply “I don’t have any weakness.” He think he got the answer right. I hope some of you understand my question?

This is what worried me, If I hired him and start working in the manufacturing dept. His boss told him what need to be done with specific instructions. This deaf guy start working and two hours later, the boss came in with horror! Yelling, “No No No!!” and pressed the red button to stop the whole things. This deaf guy produce $65,000 waste, he put it in wrong way…. Can you imagine what happen?? Boss thought he understood what he was saying and he himself thought he understood what boss saying? You know? Just like this simple question when I asked him, “What is your weakness?” He thought he understood what I’m asking? He thought maybe is there anything with health problem, or unable to pick it up or ?? So, he responded, “I don’t have any weakness” with confidence. Is that all about communication barrier?? No…….it’s all about thinking, intelligent process, of how the words put together. This is where the education failed… School need a better systems.

So for the parting shot, I’m deaf and I reject his qualification. I’m sorry…..
 

Tousi

Well-Known Member
You seem to not know the true background of why was deaf protest was set up. They only set up the deaf protest mainly for their own personal agendas, not for the deaf people. I've told you to read the thread yet you plus few others seem to have push away the perspectives, opinions, and facts. I guess there's nothing's stopping you from blindly supporting the deaf protest without actually knowing the real reason why they did it. No, they didn't do it mainly for deaf at di rst but Charlton decided to throw in the recognization for others because he knew it'll help him with his own personal agendas.

DeafDucky explained it really well and I couldn't have said it better myself. Just because I don't support the protest does not mean I don't support the deaf community and their issues... I wasn't supporting the deaf protest because their goals are mainly for selfish reasons and they expect to get everything handed to them on the platter.

Like I said... We should use our deafness to enhance us, not to enable us.
Take Charlton out of the equation, which they kinda did during the protest.....anyway, take him out and the issues they are talking about are very much what's been happening to the deaf....
 

SneakerNet

Retired
Premium Member
One additional note, Every work day for the last 35 years, I'm still little bit of anxiety and sometime inferior. I'm worry about any one simple mistake. This is what happen recently. When I walk in the classified lab and some how one guy looked at me angry and start yelling that I'm NOT suppose to be in the lab and asked me to leave immediately! As soon I walked out and I start to feel panic because I'm worry about losing my job. And first thing come to my mind as always, Am I last to know about this?? You know hearing always hear the news if there's any changed, and of course they get e-mail about it. For me I got nothing about it. My mind going in a panic mode that I thought I was breaking the security policy. I regain my strength and decided to write e-mail to him and his boss and the director of security. Asking is something I missed?? I felt I didn't do anything wrong but I did gave an apology.

Then later I got a respond below:

Sneakernet,
No apology is necessary.
Transitioning into a higher secure state in the [XXXX] Lab to meet customer requirements for this new contract is a learning experience.
We now realize we need a complete list of cleared and project cleared personnel at every access point into the secure rooms.

I know now that you have access. We are working on documenting that and following proper protocol.

I apologize if I came off gruff and/or insensitive. I see now that I might of put you in an awkward situation and I am sorry for that.
I have the upmost respect for you and your IT abilities and I am grateful for your willingness to help us.

Jack. (not his real name)


After I read this, It's a huge relieved, and I can breathed calmly. I'm sure everyone asked themselves, "Am I last person to hear about this??"

It doesn't matter how much I make or how smart I am, it's about inferior but trying hard not to think about this, just gotta think equally.... You know?
 

Foxrac

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Yes, this incliudes everyody, not just disabled. dept of labor counts ONLY people who are currently actively searching for job, they don't count those who gave up looking for job, doing part time or odd jobs, that is where the statistic gives misleading information.

zeo could see for himself or herself by looking around see how many Deafies actally works at, just go food store, restaurants, shop, see if there is any Deafies working there. The truth is we have many Deafies around but sadly we don't see many of them working

For instance, here in Rochester, we have around 10% thats Deaf living here, often I see places where they hire 1000+ employees, I rarely see more than 5, do the math 1000 employee with 5 Deaf working for, that equals 1/2% Deaf in hearing working, what happened with 9-1/2%?

How often did you see Deaf driving 18 wheelers? We have hundred thousands of truck drivers, only few are Deaf, way way below a fraction of a percentage! If there isn't any discrimination, we will be seeing more truck drivers thats Deaf (Its small but finally starting to grow)

my point is, if you look harder and check how many Deaf people work in any place, you will likely not find many.... something is wrong with this.
Yes, I noticed that too. I haven't seen many deaf people working anywhere - probably 1 deaf worker that I met per year in Alabama but in DC, I met 2-3 deaf workers per year outside of Gallaudet University in DC metro.

In Alabama, textile mills used to have many deaf workers but all of them closed 25 years ago.
 

Foxrac

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I have to jump in. I have been holding back myself until I saw this message “communication barrier is the major factor”. There are more to it, not only just communication barrier, it about cognitive thinking process, language they use in working world and continuing to educate myself. As you all aware, maybe not that I manage IT, I authorize, choose, research, control everything within the IT department. They are the upmost respect for me and my IT abilities and they are grateful for this. I have someone here in this site said “You sound like filthy rich”! I hold back and I didn’t response to this, but I’ll make a confession, yes I make 6 digits income due to my successful hard working career. How did I made it this far? Not because I’m hearing impaired wearing hearing aids or because I’m oral, speaking well. It’s because I continue to educate myself. Example: read, read, read and study anything related to IT so I can feel equal with them, I attend training, I push myself hard to see what new technology out there. I read anything that I thought it’s a great method or setup for my company. And last, I train myself to learn how to make a better communication with hearing world. Need to understand their hearing communication, instead of fighting and must meet deaf way (I’m not talking about ADA law or requirements), I’m talking about intelligent. When I say intelligent, I’m not talking about having real high IQ. I’m talking about everyone have unique intelligent, but there are some factor involved. Their cognitive thinking process. I’ll give you one example: In one of my interview, I was interviewing deaf person for Systems Administrator position and one question I asked, “What is your weakness?”, I waited for his reaction, he did startled a bit then his reply “I don’t have any weakness.” He think he got the answer right. I hope some of you understand my question?

This is what worried me, If I hired him and start working in the manufacturing dept. His boss told him what need to be done with specific instructions. This deaf guy start working and two hours later, the boss came in with horror! Yelling, “No No No!!” and pressed the red button to stop the whole things. This deaf guy produce $65,000 waste, he put it in wrong way…. Can you imagine what happen?? Boss thought he understood what he was saying and he himself thought he understood what boss saying? You know? Just like this simple question when I asked him, “What is your weakness?” He thought he understood what I’m asking? He thought maybe is there anything with health problem, or unable to pick it up or ?? So, he responded, “I don’t have any weakness” with confidence. Is that all about communication barrier?? No…….it’s all about thinking, intelligent process, of how the words put together. This is where the education failed… School need a better systems.

So for the parting shot, I’m deaf and I reject his qualification. I’m sorry…..
That what you means? http://www.learningrx.com/define-cognitive-thinking-faq.htm

Do you think that Gally students have good cognitive thinking process?
 

SneakerNet

Retired
Premium Member
That what you means? http://www.learningrx.com/define-cognitive-thinking-faq.htm

Do you think that Gally students have good cognitive thinking process?
Yes. It's not about if Gallaudet have it, it's about how a person was raised and being exposed throughout the school systems. It take years to get the brain trained, by all kinds.

Here's one example: when I told the story about me living in England from 1960 to 1969 then we, my familyl move to Biloxi, MS. As soon I said this, one person reacted quickly with "ooooh! Ouch!" and other person reacted "So you are happy back in USA!!" I sit back and thinking why I get two different responses, two different reactions? The person that said "Ouch", he got right whereas other said "Happy to back in USA" which was not an appropriate answer. He didn't make any link related to the year of the 60's. What happen in southern states during the 60's? Compare to what happen in England?? It's brutally painful time for me moving to Biloxi, MS. Segregation, War between black and white, hardship toward disability and on and on. So that person didn't see that way, he's not making any connection. He only see a picture from spot A to spot B then back to Spot A that was it.

So two different person with two different answers, the person who got it right, where did he learn that from?? Whereas other person could be uneducated. Would I be willing to hire the person who don't have the ability to compute his brain quickly and accurately? You know I'm deaf to do the interview, I don't see any differences if I'm hearing or deaf. Hearing will think the same way I think. He's not qualify enough and don't want to risk $65000 mistake or maybe $100k mistake. I do felt bad about it but this fast pace job, we cannot afford one small mistake. For me, like I said earlier, everyday, I get worry. I want to be sure I don't missed anything. I work in cyber security company and we cannot afford to have security breach. Pphtt, look at what happen to Ashley Madison, IRS etc... Me knowing that hearing employees are more comfortable even they can catch what's happening quicker than me. You know?

I know I'm rambling but just thinking about Deaf Protest, I know they are frustrated and not able to get a job. They have to understand that there are more than not just being deaf, it's about everyone being unique, there are wide disparity of uniqueness. Very few lucky enough to get in the job with right mind like and right match for the positions.
 

SneakerNet

Retired
Premium Member
Let me ask you all, with my story about interview, would you hire this guy??
The company is important to you, would you hire him? I like to hear from you all.
 

DeafDucky

Well-Known Member
Let me ask you all, with my story about interview, would you hire this guy??
The company is important to you, would you hire him? I like to hear from you all.
probably not- would depend on other factors and how the rest of the interview went- his body language, reaction etc. I have read that answering "I have no weaknesses" can be or is a red flag. The trick is to talk about your weaknesses but explain how you handle them (something I've been working on myself). So since the guy seemed to have hesitated then came up with that response, he's going to wind up at the bottom of the list.

If it came down to a deaf person and a hearing person with very similar qualifications for the job it's going to be tough but considering everything including interviews, experience etc and the deaf person edges out yep would hire no question but if there was something off about the deaf person- perhaps how s/he handled themselves in the interview then the hearing person gets it.

I have never been on the side of hiring/interviewing people but have been on the side of being interviewed... many many times. Downside these days 90% of the interviews are done by phone and it has been a challenge for me- it's maddening. Especially when you function pretty much like a HOH person (even though I consider myself deaf) with good speech (grew up Oral- learned ASL @ college- and prefer it if I can).
 

Foxrac

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Charlton claimed that LAWS PASSED on LGBT.

In fact, the congress hasn't pass LGBT anti-discrimination law yet and it will not going to pass due to nature of GOP controlled in both chambers.

No surprise about he misled about LGBT.
 
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