Canada wants to start killing Children!

deafdyke

Well-Known Member
#21
Exactly. Severe terminally end stage illness is very different from 95% of the everyday health conditions people deal with.
 
#22
I am guessing you were born with your deafness & blindness?
No, I wasn't. I didn't need hearing aids until I was 11 and didn't start losing my sight until I was 17. Now I'm ok with my deaf blindness but It didn't start off that way. In fact I was so NOT ok with being blind that I'm ashamed to say I attempted suicide several times. However I was very lucky that my suicide attempts didn't kill me because I'm now glad to be Alive. Deafblindness wasn't the big deal I thought it was. I'm sure the Belgium deafblind twins would have realised this too.

So I may have chosen to die in the lowest point of my depression and I think I have suffered when it first happened and again when I had a bad patch not too long ago. My eyes hurt me so much I wanted them to be removed. Luckily for me no doctor would agree to it. Of course I would have still managed as a totally blind and profoundly deaf person but I'm still glad I don't have to now some of my sight has been restored.

Yes people sometimes would choose death but I still don't think it's a good thing to help people do it because what might start off as a devastating condition aren't always going to remain that way. It's amazing what human's can adapt to given the chance.
 

deafdyke

Well-Known Member
#23
Yes, but even with that there are still very severe conditions that cannot be adapted to. Most can but if for example you saw a child with end stage Tay Sachs, you wouldn't be all warm and fuzzy. There are always exceptions. Unfortantly there are profound by any definition conditions
 

Bear

Well-Known Member
#24
We are not talking about allowing euthanizing people who DO NOT have a terminal illness. For someone who is not terminal this would be a whole other issue. I believe the distinction between the two definitions needs to be established in the wording of the law if this were to come about. Assisted suicide in my opinion would be to assist someone that wants to kill themselves period. Which would then mean no criteria would need to be met other than they wanna die. With euthanasia, there would have to be criteria along with the patient's desire to have an end on their own terms.

I would never support assisted suicide because as you said many conditions can be treated and the sufferers can go on to live happy lives once they become adjusted to it. However, on the other side of the slope, for euthanasia, a person with a terminal illness is not likely to get better and lead a happy life. I support euthanasia for those that are terminal. As deafdyke said there are some illnesses that would leave you horrified to see the end stages of it. I don't see it as a parent trying to kill their child. I see it as a parent trying to end the suffering that that child is going through. Yes, there are pain meds and etc we can use. How do we know they really work if the person cannot tell us? How do we know what they are truly suffering?

Do you know what an end for me is? I either suffer from organ failure because my body is not getting enough oxygen, or I simply am not able to get enough oxygen in my lungs one day and stop breathing, or I get a massive heart attack because those with COPD often develop CHF, or I can die of lung cancer because those with COPD often develop that. I would never give up my fight until my last breath, I would hope for a cure before that happens. However, let's be honest, what are the chances of that really happening? Now take my story and apply it to a person who choses to be euthanized....they chose a better end that any described.

Trust me when I say that those of us who have terminal illnesses do not wish to die. We all fight at the unfairness of it. Until a cure for every terminal condition becomes a reality, we have very limited choices. Allow us the one where we decide how we want our end to be.
 
#25
Maybe if I thought that doctors could be trusted not to kill disabled people along with the terminally ill I might think differently. My mum had cancer. She died BEFORE she was ready to go. It was all the pain medicine that gave her a heart attack but she NEEDED pain medicine. She just did and as I said before. I don't like the idea of people suffering. People shouldn't have to suffer if they are getting the care they need at the end of their lives.
 

DeafNerdMommy

Well-Known Member
#26
I fully agree with assisted suicide. Some people eant a clean way to go. Think of it, a loved one wants to die. They can die next to you peaceful and content. Or blow their brains put with a gun. As someone who has cleaned up after a shotgun suicide, I don't recommend it.
 

Bear

Well-Known Member
#27
Sorry, I will never agree to assisted suicide. Those people can be helped. The help is out there and sometimes all it takes is for someone to recognize the signs that someone is considering it. A 16 year old considers suicide and it is usually over a guy breaking up with her or problems at school or bullying but those things dont last forever. If we condone assisted suicide then we are condoning it for any reason.
 
#28
Bear: I've looked up COPD for you. It says:

"Our job with COPD is to make sure the reaper waits as long as possible.
To do that, all you need to do is manage your condition. Take your medications when you need them. Oxygen if prescribed. Do not smoke. Else you might not last five years. Quitting smoking slows the pace of COPD dramatically. Exercise as much as you are able. This will exercise the lungs and help to keep muscle toned. Muscle uses least oxygen. Try not to get stressed as stress causes lots of breathing problems. Try to stay positive and to keep positive people around you. Have ‘It’s good to laugh’, as your motto and laugh often. Ask your consultant for a COPD management plan and stick to it. Make sure you get a flu shot each year and pneumonia shot. If you become unusually breathless seek medical attention as soon as you can. If you do that, like me, you can live for very many years. In two years I have an anniversary. It will then be 30 years I will have lived with COPD – yet despite stage four I am still enjoying life."
 

Bear

Well-Known Member
#30
Vegan yes, I do know it can be managed and that people can live a long life with it. I have been diagnosed going on 6 years now. However, you must realize that this is not the norm for everyone. This is one story. Yes, it is still terminal, there is no cure. I did say that I would not give up the fight in a post above. I have way too much to fight for. I got 4 grand kids and I got them to fight for. However, when the end does come...shouldn't I be allowed to choose how I wanna go out? I hope to be one of those who live to a ripe old age. I no longer smoke and I have done a lot to help me be able to breathe easy. Hopefully, I will be one of the lucky ones who live 20 to 30 years.
 
#31
Yes, you're right. The DB twins had more complex issues going on It wasn't b/c they were DB. I do think they need to be very very careful with euthsania. But euthsania isn't automatically anti abliest b/c there are extreme profound conditions that can and do cause severe pain or profoundly limited functioning
I spend more time on spinal cord injury forums and we have lengthy discussions about "when have I suffered enough?" The chronic pains some people must live with are debilitating and the longer you endure it, the harder it can be to continue. Restrictions on opioids has made this worse and driven several to suicide. Remember that bit of advice for understanding pain- Hold a 1 lb object out horizontally in your hand. Easy. Now hold it there for 8 hours. You cannot. Make that 5 or 10 lbs and you begin to understand severe pain.
 
#32
As Canada moves to embrace assisted suicide, the country has found itself going further and further in just several short years. Assisted suicide was just legalized there in 2015, and in less than two years, the number of assisted suicides skyrocketed. The Canadian government must be pleased with these results, because it has been moving to legalize euthanasia in more and more circumstances.

Originally, the legalization of assisted suicide came with certain stipulations. People eligible had to be competent adults, able to fully consent, and be in “grievous and irremediable medical condition that causes enduring suffering that is intolerable.” In addition to this, “physicians cannot be compelled to assist those wanting to die.” But already, things are changing. Some doctors claim they are forced to participate in assisted suicide; parents are reporting that they are being pressured to euthanize their disabled children. The government is also launching a study to examine whether or not people with mental illnesses should be eligible for euthanasia, and officials in Quebec have begun considering allowing family members to euthanize their loved ones with Alzheimer’s disease or dementia, even without the person’s consent.

The next stop? Allowing children to be euthanized.

According to the Canadian Paediatric Society, there are increasing requests for the euthanasia of children. The medical organization rightly said that this indicated a need for better palliative care, but did not disavow assisted suicide for minors.

“Medical assistance in dying is something that has been legislated [for adults] and stated [as] needing to be accessible … but there isn’t the same ‘oomph’ for saying that all Canadians need good access to palliative care,” Dr. Dawn Davies, chair of the society’s bioethics committee and a pediatric palliative care physician in Edmonton, said. “Where the issue of medical assistance in dying is ever raised by a child, you know, we would advocate that that should automatically be a referral for pediatric palliative care.”

Davies is chairing a review of the current assisted suicide law, which bars minors from being euthanized. The review will determine whether or not “mature minors” should be eligible for assisted suicide, meaning children under the age of 18, and capable of giving consent. The review will be presented to Parliament in 2018.

A report published last week by the Canadian Paediatric Society showed that almost half of pediatricians — 46% — were in favor of assisted suicide for minors. 29% approved it for children with an “intolerable disability.” 17 minor children explicitly requested assisted suicide, while 60 patients had “exploratory discussions” about it.

Naturally, the assisted suicide lobby was enthusiastic about this news. “For us, this is fundamentally an issue about discrimination,” Shanaaz Gokool, CEO of Dying With Dignity Canada, said. “How can we look away from the 16-year old that has enduring, intolerable suffering that can make other health-care decisions? How can we look away from them in the face of that suffering and deny them their right to an assisted death?” She also claimed that if assisted suicide was not legalized, families would be forced to take their requests to court. “We don’t want to have a situation … [where we] rely on a 15-year-old with terminal illness and their family, already grieving what they know will be the inevitable outcome of their child having an early death because of their medical condition, having to go to court,” she said.

Canadian Physicians For Life, meanwhile, has opposed the measure. “What’s really happening is that children are being unprotected whereas they were protected before from euthanasia,” Will Johnston, president, said. Davies disagreed, though, saying that better palliative care is not what is needed. “I think a lot of it has to do with control … over one’s life and one’s destiny no matter how old you are,” she said. “That’s a very personal sort of thing.”

Davies is certainly right that the issue is not about palliative care; multiple studies have indeed shown that the reason people most commonly request assisted suicide is not fear of their disease, pain, or the symptoms they might suffer. Most people feel hopeless, are fighting depression, don’t have support, or are afraid of being a burden on their families. When these issues are addressed, like the patient’s clinical depression, then the request for assisted suicide is typically withdrawn.

So why does Davies not advocate for addressing those issues, like fearing a loss of control and autonomy, for her young patients? The answer to those fears is not a death sentence. And how quickly would the option of assisted suicide turn into the obligation of assisted suicide? Doctors are already pressuring parents to euthanize their adult disabled children; does anyone really think that it will get better once minors are legally eligible too?
You did not use reference. You need to place reference where you got this article from. Thank you.
 
#33
Doing this act is actually in my opinion, suicide. No matter what and taking your own life is not of your own business actually because you do not belong to yourself. Your body doesnt belong to you. (pointing up)

Think about that. Who owns your bodies? Your souls?
 

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