California Bill AB 2027

[shel90]

Right, English is a language and so is ASL. So one choice is English, one is ASL. There are different ways for a child to aquire English.

Yes, there is but I believe in taking the least risky way to do it. I just would rather not put chidlren's language and cognitive development at risks. I cant do that to children whether they are deaf or hearing.

 

[faire_jour]

Yes, there is but I believe in taking the least risky way to do it. I just would rather not put chidlren's language and cognitive development at risks. I cant do that to children whether they are deaf or hearing.

And I agree with you. Other parents believe that having access to the language of the majority, not needing interpreters, having English as their first language, etc outways the possibilty of a language delay. They believe that through vigilance and proper follow up by professionals the risk is nullified.

 

[shel90]

And I agree with you. Other parents believe that having access to the language of the majority, not needing interpreters, having English as their first language, etc outways the possibilty of a language delay. They believe that through vigilance and proper follow up by professionals the risk is nullified.

That was what my mom and several of my friends' parents believed in and it backfired. Give them both and let the child decide which path to go as they get older. That's my belief.

 

[faire_jour]

That was what my mom and several of my friends' parents believed in and it backfired. Give them both and let the child decide which path to go as they get older. That's my belief.

How do you provide an enviroment that is rich in ASL and spoken language? How do you immerse a child in both those languages? How do provide fluent ASL all day AND fluent spoken language for the child to learn?

 

[shel90]

How do you provide an enviroment that is rich in ASL and spoken language? How do you immerse a child in both those languages? How do provide fluent ASL all day AND fluent spoken language for the child to learn?

That is something that needs to be worked on but the policy isnt in place yet. Need to get it in place and then form a task committee to establish early intervention for families and their children.

 

[A]

Sigh. Do we really have pick which language is more important? That is just silly. I don't like the idea putting ASL in the backburner in the name of oralism.

 

[Mrs Bucket]

That was what my mom and several of my friends' parents believed in and it backfired. Give them both and let the child decide which path to go as they get older. That's my belief.

Shel, I cannot help but notice many references to your mother and the mistakes your mother made. It is unfortunate you had to go through a hard journey communicating, remember mistakes are mistakes.

Mistakes are meant to be made and to learn from. Allow people to make their own mistakes and allow them to learn from them.

Allow people the option of having a language and two instead of just one- ASL.

Having a Bi-Bi approach in life does enriches a person's life; I know because I speak from experience.

 

[shel90]

Shel, I cannot help but notice many references to your mother and the mistakes your mother made. It is unfortunate you had to go through a hard journey communicating, remember mistakes are mistakes.

Mistakes are meant to be made and to learn from. Allow people to make their own mistakes and allow them to learn from them.

Allow people the option of having a language and two instead of just one- ASL.

Having a Bi-Bi approach in life does enriches a person's life; I know because I speak from experience.

Not just my mom....my friends and several children I know. I cant talk too much about the students I work with because I am not comfortable about it so I use my experiences as a reference. I am not the only one who suffered. This problem is still ongoing.

I agree with allowing mistakes but when it comes to children's language development and education...mistakes cant be afforded because time is lost and most children dont catch up and end up with a lot of problems later on that they cant overcome especially when it comes to literacy skills. To be able to read and write, one must achieve a strong first language fluency. I just would rather not put any child at risks in the educational setting.

 

[A]

language of deaf people>>>> yes it is language of the deaf, depriving them of that would make it hard for them to find work with other deaf people in the workforce IF hearing workforce is not working out too great for them. VRS over TTY is another reason. SEE is too slow as TTY for the deaf so that's why most deaf use ASL. I always thought the whole purpose of education is to prepare people for workforce. It just too bad that some people don't see it that way.

 

[faire_jour]

That is something that needs to be worked on but the policy isnt in place yet. Need to get it in place and then form a task committee to establish early intervention for families and their children.

But you agree that right now there is no plan for this? How do you emphasis both languages and fluent communication in both?

My choice was to emphasis one and then the other. It is impossible to coherently teach two languages simultaneously. So, we focused on the easier, more accessable language first. She gained fluency and her academic skills were up to par, so we changed the emphasis to the other language. We did not give up the other language. We continue to communicate using ASL. We have ASL pull outs and goals on her IEP. We are active in the Deaf community. We use it to teach the other language, and to clarify if there are misunderstandings. We attend a Deaf church, and often we use ASL to explain new concepts. We are just currently focusing on gaining fluency in the second language.

 

[shel90]

But you agree that right now there is no plan for this? How do you emphasis both languages and fluent communication in both?

My choice was to emphasis one and then the other. It is impossible to coherently teach two languages simultaneously. So, we focused on the easier, more accessable language first. She gained fluency and her academic skills were up to par, so we changed the emphasis to the other language. We did not give up the other language. We continue to communicate using ASL. We have ASL pull outs and goals on her IEP. We are active in the Deaf community. We use it to teach the other language, and to clarify if there are misunderstandings. We attend a Deaf church, and often we use ASL to explain new concepts. We are just currently focusing on gaining fluency in the second language.

Ok if that is what parents want and the child has a strong first language already, then I may reconsider my beliefs. I just like the idea that your daughter is in a program with skilled people who work with deaf children instead of being mainstreamed in a classroom full of 30 plus kids and a teacher not trained to meet the deaf children's needs.

if I had to choose, I would choose your daughter's oral program over mainstreaming.

Still I stand by my beliefs about giving all deaf children access to ASL and spoken English (for the US).

 

[faire_jour]

Ok if that is what parents want and the child has a strong first language already, then I may reconsider my beliefs. I just like the idea that your daughter is in a program with skilled people who work with deaf children instead of being mainstreamed in a classroom full of 30 plus kids and a teacher not trained to meet the deaf children's needs.

if I had to choose, I would choose your daughter's oral program over mainstreaming.

Still I stand by my beliefs about giving all deaf children access to ASL and spoken English (for the US).

Then why was I called an "oralist" in this very thread? Grendel was insulted as well and she has a child who is in a bi-bi school. She isn't even in an oral program!!!

For my daughter to get a speacialized education by a teacher of the deaf and be exposed to, learn and use fluent spoken language, that neccesitates the avalibility of an oral deaf education program. She gets ASL and spoken language in her program. Plkus a TOD and deaf peers.

 

[shel90]

Then why was I called an "oralist" in this very thread? Grendel was insulted as well and she has a child who is in a bi-bi school. She isn't even in an oral program!!!

For my daughter to get a speacialized education by a teacher of the deaf and be exposed to, learn and use fluent spoken language, that neccesitates the avalibility of an oral deaf education program. She gets ASL and spoken language in her program.

I dont remember calling you an oralist. I cant remember everything I have said in this thread.

 

[faire_jour]

I dont remember calling you an oralist. I cant remember everything I have said in this thread.

It wasn't you, it was Jillio in post 327. She called me and Grendel "oralists". Also, I believe flip called use both ignorant and uninformed.

 

[shel90]

It wasn't you, it was Jillio in post 327. She called me and Grendel "oralists". Also, I believe flip called use both ignorant and uninformed.

I must have missed them as I was using my pager earlier. Now, I am on the computer.

I will have to go back and read alllll of the posts and see what lead them to these particular posts by Jillio and Flip.

 

[faire_jour]

I must have missed them as I was using my pager earlier. Now, I am on the computer.

I will have to go back and read alllll of the posts and see what lead them to these particular posts by Jillio and Flip.

I was following this thread this morning on my phone too

 

[deafdyke]

Those professionals who advocated oral-only deaf ed caused so much misery for my friends and I when we were growing up. Now, all of us from that preschool class use ASL as our primary language and wish we werent placed in classrooms where we were constantly left out, lost, and fighting to keep our heads above water. Same thing with social settings...we all paid a heavy price for these professionals' opinion

That's an excellent point. Oralists seem to think that if a kid is orally skilled, they will be totally and completly comfortable in any and every sitution in the hearing world.
Oral abilty is AWESOME, BUT it doesn't 100% equalize a dhh kid (except perhaps for unilateral losses) Heck social issues are still a HUGE biggie for even the superstars.
Just b/c a kid can do ok one on one,, and speak and hear pretty well, that doesn't mean that all will be well. Kids are STILL really missing out......Hoh kids have experianced this for years. Most CId kids are now functionally hoh.....NOT hearing. Hoh kids (except for unilateal dhh) still experaince SO many disadvantages from oral only and ASL!

 

[kokonut]

That's an excellent point. Oralists seem to think that if a kid is orally skilled, they will be totally and completly comfortable in any and every sitution in the hearing world.
Oral abilty is AWESOME, BUT it doesn't 100% equalize a dhh kid (except perhaps for unilateral losses) Heck social issues are still a HUGE biggie for even the superstars.
Just b/c a kid can do ok one on one,, and speak and hear pretty well, that doesn't mean that all will be well. Kids are STILL really missing out......Hoh kids have experianced this for years. Most CId kids are now functionally hoh.....NOT hearing. Hoh kids (except for unilateal dhh) still experaince SO many disadvantages from oral only and ASL!

When it comes to CI it isn't just oral, it's auditory-oral or aural-oral for young kids growing up with CI. It's a growing skill to acquire, develop and adapt to the understanding of the sound of the spoken word.

 

[Reba]

Maybe it is because some of us witnessed or personally experienced what happens to a deaf child who has been put in a restrictive educational setting for several years resulting in language delays, deficits or socio-emotional issues all because people want to believ that deaf children do not need ASL without fully understanding the implications. ASL is not a method of teaching..it is a language of deaf people. If deaf people had full access to communication and language via spoken language then sign languages would have never evolved.

We are advocating for the use of both for all deaf/hoh children so these risks would be as minimized as possible.

Do you think that insulting and browbeating hearing parents will convince them to pay attention to you? How does it help deaf children by putting their parents on the defensive?

I'm not saying that you don't have valid points. I'm saying those points won't be heard or heeded if all the parents hear is, "You are WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!"

 

[Calvin]

Calvin may close this thread but I don't think he "gleefully" closes any.

Sorry for the delay, had a busy day.

Mod note:

Time to close this thread to allow cooling down period.

Thanks.