ASL student attending Deaf event

I don't want anyone to get the wrong impression from me here. I am all for signing whenever possible especially for those that are learning. It's good exercise. In fact I wish I had more opportunities to sign. My only point is that I don't see why anyone would get offended if spoken language was used in the context of the OP.

I went to a show where my friends band was playing and there were some deaf folks there hands flying. Should I or any hearing person take offense because they were signing. Trust me, there were many hearing people at this event and even if they watched the signing they would not have a clue what the conversation was about. When I went to meet the deaf folks I used my limited skills and discovered that they were able to speak and speechread but they chose to sign instead. Personally I don't see a problem with that and would not take offense to them signing even though they could speak fluently.

When I try to gauge fairness I take the comments and apply them to both sides of the coin.
-At a deaf event its considered rude for hearing people to use spoken language.
-At a hearing event its considered rude for oral deaf to use sign language.

Can you see how unfair holding to that is on either side of the coin?

My position is that it should not be considered rude if at a deaf event hearing people use spoken language when there are no deaf people involved in the conversation. Just as it should not be considered rude if at a hearing event oral deaf use sign language when there are no hearing people involved in the conversation.
 
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shel90 said:
..... That's why most deaf people prefer to go to Deaf socials than hearing socials. Everyone is at an equal playing field.
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Not all deaf are created equal. Not all deaf know ASL, SEE or other forms of signing. Not all deaf can speechread. Not all deaf can speak. Equal playing field? Maybe.
 
rockdrummer said:
I don't want anyone to get the wrong impression from me here. I am all for signing whenever possible especially for those that are learning. It's good exercise. In fact I wish I had more opportunities to sign. My only point is that I don't see why anyone would get offended if spoken language was used in the context of the OP.

I went to a show where my friends band was playing and there were some deaf folks there hands flying. Should I or any hearing person take offense because they were signing. Trust me, there were many hearing people at this event and even if they watched the signing they would not have a clue what the conversation was about. When I went to meet the deaf folks I used my limited skills and discovered that they were able to speak and speechread but they chose to sign instead. Personally I don't see a problem with that and would not take offense to them signing even though they could speak fluently.

When I try to gauge fairness I take the comments and apply them to both sides of the coin.
-At a deaf event its considered rude for hearing people to use spoken language.
-At a hearing event its considered rude for oral deaf to use sign language.

Can you see how unfair holding to that is on either side of the coin?

My position is that it should not be considered rude if at a deaf event hearing people use spoken language when there are no deaf people involved in the conversation. Just as it should not be considered rude if at a hearing event oral deaf use sign language when there are no hearing people involved in the conversation.
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Hearing people can learn ASL and can have equal access to ASL while deaf people cant no matter how hard they lipread or are skilled with oral skills. No matter what we do, we will never have access to spoken English like hearing people do even if we learn it but hearing people will have the opportunity to have access to ASL after learning it.
 
rockdrummer said:
Not all deaf are created equal. Not all deaf know ASL, SEE or other forms of signing. Not all deaf can speechread. Not all deaf can speak. Equal playing field? Maybe.
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Deaf people go to deaf socials for the purpose of getting equal access to communication..that was my point. I would say about the majority of deaf people who go to deaf socials are fluent ASL users.
 
if you ask me, I think most HOH have a difficult time with other HOH. I met a few and we could hardly communicate. My older sister and I hardly ever talk either and we both are HOH. we just get frustrated with each other and give up. Now we talk more on the computer than we do real life.
 
shel90 said:
Hearing people can learn ASL and can have equal access to ASL while deaf people cant no matter how hard they lipread or are skilled with oral skills. No matter what we do, we will never have access to spoken English like hearing people do even if we learn it but hearing people will have the opportunity to have access to ASL after learning it.
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I don't doubt what you are saying is true but from my perspective it's not in the context of the OP.
 
Lighthouse77 said:
if you ask me, I think most HOH have a difficult time with other HOH. I met a few and we could hardly communicate. My older sister and I hardly ever talk either and we both are HOH. we just get frustrated with each other and give up. Now we talk more on the computer than we do real life.
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Make you feel sorry for the late-deafened elderly, eh?
 
rockdrummer said:
I don't doubt what you are saying is true but from my perspective it's not in the context of the OP.
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But isn't she supposed to be learning that? And she was told by a sign "voice off", so why is this still being discussed?
 
Lighthouse77 said:
if you ask me, I think most HOH have a difficult time with other HOH. I met a few and we could hardly communicate. My older sister and I hardly ever talk either and we both are HOH. we just get frustrated with each other and give up. Now we talk more on the computer than we do real life.
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I am grateful that the computer and forums such as this allow me as a hearing person to communicate with deaf folks on a level that we would not be able to do in real life unless certain circumstances were met. From my perspective it's a great tool. Not very practical but nevertheless a great tool for communicating.
 
shel90 said:
Deaf people go to deaf socials for the purpose of getting equal access to communication..that was my point. I would say about the majority of deaf people who go to deaf socials are fluent ASL users.
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I never knew that. I thought deaf people went to socials to socialize. The OP described it as a deaf event. Correct me if I am wrong but isn't a deaf event and a deaf social different things that would be held at different venues?
 
Bottesini said:
But isn't she supposed to be learning that? And she was told by a sign "voice off", so why is this still being discussed?
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You do have a valid point. The event did ask for "voices off" and one should respect that. Most of the discussion was before the OP mentioned that and my latest posts are just responses to posts prior to the OP mentioning the voices off thing. I am not trying to be a hard case here and I agree that once you arrive at an event where there is a sign that says voices off you should respect that. If the sign was not there however I can't imagine why anyone would be offended by hearing people using spoken language when there are no deaf people involved in the conversation just as I can't imagine anyone being offended if at a hearing event deaf people were signing.
 
rockdrummer said:
I never knew that. I thought deaf people went to socials to socialize. The OP described it as a deaf event. Correct me if I am wrong but isn't a deaf event and a deaf social different things that would be held at different venues?
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Most deaf people who go to Deaf socials arent there to communicate with non-signers...we go to communicate with signers whether they are hearing or deaf. Sometimes, I go out to places with my hubby to socialize where there are no signers and I try to make the best of it but I have 100% access to language and communication at deaf socials hence my reasons for going to those.
 
shel90 said:
Most deaf people who go to Deaf socials arent there to communicate with non-signers...we go to communicate with signers whether they are hearing or deaf. Sometimes, I go out to places with my hubby to socialize where there are no signers and I try to make the best of it but I have 100% access to language and communication at deaf socials hence my reasons for going to those.
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I understand what you are saying but in the context of the thread and OP I have a hard time understanding why anyone would be offended.
 
rockdrummer said:
I understand what you are saying but in the context of the thread and OP I have a hard time understanding why anyone would be offended.
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To put it bluntly and make myself a few more enemies, it would probably be misinterpreted or correctly interpreted that the students are saying something snide against the deaf attendees.

You wait a few years and you can ask your son if you won't believe me.
 
Bottesini said:
To put it bluntly and make myself a few more enemies, it would probably be misinterpreted or correctly interpreted that the students are saying something snide against the deaf attendees.

You wait a few years and you can ask your son if you won't believe me.
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It is sad that you feel that way and it is sad that you have reason to feel that way. And I do deal with the ignorance already. I don't have to wait for my son to tell me about it.
 
rockdrummer said:
It is sad that you feel that way and it is sad that you have reason to feel that way. And I deal with the ignorance already.
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Ok. Then if you understand I think you should stop arguing for the wrong side.
 
rockdrummer...

I suggest you attend a few blind events... and take a look at the sighted people. A lot of them mouth words... which is rude to the blind attendees. Speaking while a deaf person is present just as offensive.

You may say that signing is just as offensive to the hearing folks, but it is not-- they are aware that the hands are moving; they are aware people are speaking in other languages.
 
Bottesini said:
Ok. Then if you understand I think you should stop arguing for the wrong side.
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Because I don't believe that snide remarks are always the case. Especially when the OP is learning about deaf culture, sign language and attending deaf events. As cynical as I am I can't imagine the hearing folks that attend deaf events are there to make fun of deaf people or make snide remarks about them.
 
souggy said:
..........
You may say that signing is just as offensive to the hearing folks, but it is not-- they are aware that the hands are moving; they are aware people are speaking in other languages.
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Please don't put words in my mouth. I never said that. I was making a comparison for the sake of an analogy.
 
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