Asl Class And Material Opinions

[Jane B.]

But if the hearing instructor is a poor ASL instructor, such as not teaching voice off, etc, then that's more harm than good.

Would you want to learn to drive a car from someone who teaches that it's ok to run red lights, tailgate, etc? And then find yourself getting tickets or into accidents because that's what your instructor taught you?

I don't think what you are comparing really fit together. There is not the danger level in making signing errors that there is from the driving instruction you have described.

Where I live a hearing instruction is the only choice that I know of. I took such a course two different semesters through a community college. I made no contacts to continue using it. But did get enough that when I went to denomination wide church event that had someone signing it did help some. That was many years ago and I have since forgotten 99% of what I learned from not getting to use it.

 

[zephren]

Yes, a qualified hearing instructor is better than no instruction.

Sadly, there are poor deaf instructors too. I used the word experienced instructor in my comment to imply quality instructor but you can have a lot of experience at teaching badly : ).

I was surprise that the first class I signed my wife (then girlfriend) up for at ASD was taught by a deaf instructor who turned out to be not be a native signer nor had she develop native skills later, raise orally and spoke nearly the entire class, and the class was mostly going through the Humphries book showing pictures of the signs on the overhead. The emphasis was English translation and very little true language skill development. She learned very little.

I found another class with a Deaf instructor using the Signing Naturally curriculum and her skills have soared.

 

[TJSieling]

I see what LoveBlue is saying, but I'm not entirely sure that driving a car is good comparison. Learning another language seems to fit better. It would be more beneficial to learn from someone native to the language, learning French from someone who lived in France, for example. Like Dogmom said, it gives an added insight into the culture behind the language as well as learning the language itself. But Jane makes a good point too. If all I can find near me is a hearing instructor, it's better than nothing. I can learn what I can, improve on it on my own, and then meet someone native to the language (native being kind of a loose term) to learn what I'm missing and correct what I'm not doing correctly.

Kind of like "A Basic Course in American Sign Language." I actually bought the book before I seen the publication date, and it's now sitting on my desk (brand new, still in wrap even!). I can learn some things, go to "Signing Naturally" and learn what the other doesn't have, see the changes, and then put it to practice.

 

[AlleyCat]

I don't think what you are comparing really fit together. There is not the danger level in making signing errors that there is from the driving instruction you have described.

Where I live a hearing instruction is the only choice that I know of. I took such a course two different semesters through a community college. I made no contacts to continue using it. But did get enough that when I went to denomination wide church event that had someone signing it did help some. That was many years ago and I have since forgotten 99% of what I learned from not getting to use it.

Hmm..... Do you know that if you knock your closed palms together (or rather, on top of each other), you are basically describing "work" (or a "job") yet, if you reverse your arms, and do the same, you are basically describing "having sex". You think you want to go somewhere making that kind of a mistake you learned from someone who doesn't know what they're teaching?

No, sometimes "something is better than nothing" is not true. If and when TJSeiling does take ASL classes as he's indicated he's interested in doing, he's going to find that out pretty darn quick.

 

[TJSieling]

I wonder if I shouldn't change the title of this thread to "ASL classes and material opinions." It's nice to see all the input coming in, you've all given me a bit to think about.

 

[Jane B.]

Hmm..... Do you know that if you knock your closed palms together (or rather, on top of each other), you are basically describing "work" (or a "job") yet, if you reverse your arms, and do the same, you are basically describing "having sex". You think you want to go somewhere making that kind of a mistake you learned from someone who doesn't know what they're teaching?

No, sometimes "something is better than nothing" is not true. If and when TJSeiling does take ASL classes as he's indicated he's interested in doing, he's going to find that out pretty darn quick.

I agree it would not be good. But you are not likely to get killed because of it like you might because of some of the things in the driving example.

 

[TJSieling]

Hmm..... Do you know that if you knock your closed palms together (or rather, on top of each other), you are basically describing "work" (or a "job") yet, if you reverse your arms, and do the same, you are basically describing "having sex". You think you want to go somewhere making that kind of a mistake you learned from someone who doesn't know what they're teaching?

No, sometimes "something is better than nothing" is not true. If and when TJSeiling does take ASL classes as he's indicated he's interested in doing, he's going to find that out pretty darn quick.

But that's also where it's my job to do independent study as well as whatever class studying I do. That way, if I were to ever realize that I'm flipping "work" and actually describing "having sex," there's a chance for me to correct it before I go out and say something that I shouldn't have.

@Jane B. The comparison may have been a little much, but it's just to show that being taught something incorrectly can lead to issues, no matter the subject.

 

[Reba]

I've been asked to teach ASL classes several times and I always turn the offer down. I'm willing to help a person find resources, or tutor one-on-one but I won't teach it.

 

[Reba]

You seem to be forgetting that some of us are in a place where taking a course taught by a hearing instructor is the ONLY choice. That is the ONLY course around!

There's a good chance a community like that doesn't have a Deaf population either, so students won't be able to put their skills to use in the real world.

 

[dogmom]

AC <couldn't find your post#>

 

[Reba]

For me, when I think of "Deaf instructor" I tend to include CODA's though I know - there are variations as if they're considered "Deaf" or not, and not all CODA sign fluently or would be good as ASL teachers - but I think of how their first language is ASL by default.

I agree that just being a CODA doesn't automatically qualify someone to become an ASL instructor (or interpreter, for that matter). In fact, because of family baggage, sometimes they would be the worst in those positions. A CODA still has to be qualified.

Also, for me personally reflecting on Jane's question - I would really hesitate to take a class not taught by Deaf people, regardless of if there was a hearing teacher - one, because part of valuing and supporting ASL is valuing Deaf teachers and if a hearing teacher is teaching, that's an opportunity that the Deaf teacher doesn't have, to pass on their own culture and language. If I value Deaf experience and knowledge<Deaf Gain>, than I want to support Deaf teachers, not hearing teachers.

and I think from a practical standpoint Deaf teachers can teach things that no hearing can. so for me its better to not take it by a hearing teacher....[/QUOTE]
Yes, it's important to support Deaf teachers.

In addition to CODA's, the only other hearing exception I might include is those married to Deaf spouses, who have totally immersed their lives into the Deaf community and culture in addition to being fluent in ASL. They are the ones who you meet at a Deaf social and you are shocked to find out that they are hearing. They are NOT the ones who fingerspell, toss in a few signs with their speech, and don't know any Deaf people other than their spouses.

I've read and heard about the horror stories of unqualified hearing teachers. Some of them are patronizing about Deaf people, or they like "easy" money, or they had no formal instruction in ASL, or they don't even realize what they're teaching is NOT ASL, or they consider The Joy of Signing a textbook.

 

[DeafDucky]

You seem to be forgetting that some of us are in a place where taking a course taught by a hearing instructor is the ONLY choice. That is the ONLY course around!

Well in this day and age and forward- I would think soon enough one could take a course run by a d/Deaf instructor through online video lessons and the ability to see all the students at the same time. It's possible but very clunky to have a group chat larger than 3-5 people and video quality isn't the same for everyone.

 

[DeafDucky]

Oh lord.. Joy of Signing. We used that book in NSP ironically enough... but at the time there wasn't much in the way of ASL curriculum (early '80s). The teacher that I had was Deaf and did teach the class voice off (my class was the absolute beginner- zero knowledge of signs- other classes went up in levels based on the person's skills), there was a mix of hearing and Deaf teachers but ALL of them I think either worked at Gallaudet or had some connection to Gallaudet. I still have that book somewhere plus the one by Lou Fant- which is the book my aunt used when SHE took a class. No idea if her teacher was deaf or not. She promptly forgot it all lol. Sister did a better job in retaining what she learned in college (if I remember one of her homework assignments was writing about a well known/influential deaf person I think...? She called me .. lol. I suggested Laurent Clerc lol).

 

[Bottesini]

Oh lord.. Joy of Signing. We used that book in NSP ironically enough... but at the time there wasn't much in the way of ASL curriculum (early '80s). The teacher that I had was Deaf and did teach the class voice off (my class was the absolute beginner- zero knowledge of signs- other classes went up in levels based on the person's skills), there was a mix of hearing and Deaf teachers but ALL of them I think either worked at Gallaudet or had some connection to Gallaudet. I still have that book somewhere plus the one by Lou Fant- which is the book my aunt used when SHE took a class. No idea if her teacher was deaf or not. She promptly forgot it all lol. Sister did a better job in retaining what she learned in college (if I remember one of her homework assignments was writing about a well known/influential deaf person I think...? She called me .. lol. I suggested Laurent Clerc lol).

Lou Fant Ameslan? I've got a copy of that somewhere in my deaf historical memorabilia

 

[DeafDucky]

Lou Fant Ameslan? I've got a copy of that somewhere in my deaf historical memorabilia

Yup that is the one I think. Fancy yellow, orange, red all over the cover lol. It's in one of my boxes with many of my other deaf related books.

 

[Reba]

Oh lord.. Joy of Signing. We used that book in NSP ironically enough... but at the time there wasn't much in the way of ASL curriculum (early '80s). The teacher that I had was Deaf and did teach the class voice off (my class was the absolute beginner- zero knowledge of signs- other classes went up in levels based on the person's skills), there was a mix of hearing and Deaf teachers but ALL of them I think either worked at Gallaudet or had some connection to Gallaudet. I still have that book somewhere plus the one by Lou Fant- which is the book my aunt used when SHE took a class. No idea if her teacher was deaf or not. She promptly forgot it all lol. Sister did a better job in retaining what she learned in college (if I remember one of her homework assignments was writing about a well known/influential deaf person I think...? She called me .. lol. I suggested Laurent Clerc lol).

My first text book was Lou Fant's book. I took a class at the YMCA taught by a CODA in 1969. Not the best class compared to today's but she did invite the founding members of the Theater of the Deaf to her house and we got to meet them. That was a "wow" experience! (The original theater group used to meet in the Eugene O'Neil Barn in Waterford, CT, where I lived at the time.)

 

[whatdidyousay!]

My first text book was Lou Fant's book. I took a class at the YMCA taught by a CODA in 1969. Not the best class compared to today's but she did invite the founding members of the Theater of the Deaf to her house and we got to meet them. That was a "wow" experience! (The original theater group used to meet in the Eugene O'Neil Barn in Waterford, CT, where I lived at the time.)

http://www.theoneill.org/about-us/the-first-five-years/ Is the place you're talking about ?

 

[Reba]

http://www.theoneill.org/about-us/the-first-five-years/ Is the place you're talking about ?

Yes, it is.

Our family knew the White family, too. (He wrote the article that you linked.) My grandmother was housekeeper/cook/friend of the Nelson White, the patriarch of the family for several years. Very nice wealthy family, not snobs at all. My grandmother loved fine arts, so she enjoyed meeting all the artists that visited the Whites. He also generous to her in his will even after she quit working for them. He left her some stocks in public utilities, such as ATT&T.

Across the road from his estate my other grandparents lived in a humble old farm house. Every week when Nelson was at home my grandfather and he would get together for a game of chess.

Nelson also put my grandmother's family and descendants on an access list for free use of his private beach any time we wanted to go. It was only a mile from her house to the beach, so we took advantage of that.

Oops! Sorry, I just realized how far astray I'm getting from the topic.

 

[whatdidyousay!]

Yes, it is.

Our family knew the White family, too. (He wrote the article that you linked.) My grandmother was housekeeper/cook/friend of the Nelson White, the patriarch of the family for several years. Very nice wealthy family, not snobs at all. My grandmother loved fine arts, so she enjoyed meeting all the artists that visited the Whites. He also generous to her in his will even after she quit working for them. He left her some stocks in public utilities, such as ATT&T.

Across the road from his estate my other grandparents lived in a humble old farm house. Every week when Nelson was at home my grandfather and he would get together for a game of chess.

Nelson also put my grandmother's family and descendants on an access list for free use of his private beach any time we wanted to go. It was only a mile from her house to the beach, so we took advantage of that.

Oops! Sorry, I just realized how far astray I'm getting from the topic.

I find what you posted to be very interested and was really getting into. You could write a book about this !

 

[Jane B.]

Oh lord.. Joy of Signing. We used that book in NSP ironically enough... but at the time there wasn't much in the way of ASL curriculum (early '80s). The teacher that I had was Deaf and did teach the class voice off (my class was the absolute beginner- zero knowledge of signs- other classes went up in levels based on the person's skills), there was a mix of hearing and Deaf teachers but ALL of them I think either worked at Gallaudet or had some connection to Gallaudet. I still have that book somewhere plus the one by Lou Fant- which is the book my aunt used when SHE took a class. No idea if her teacher was deaf or not. She promptly forgot it all lol. Sister did a better job in retaining what she learned in college (if I remember one of her homework assignments was writing about a well known/influential deaf person I think...? She called me .. lol. I suggested Laurent Clerc lol).

I also had a couple of classes (both beginning courses as I made not contacts to use it with the first time and it turned out I didn't the second time either) that used Joy of Signing in the mid 1980's. The instructor was hearing but the choice of text was not her fault. There were two different people that were teaching sign through the local community college and both were surprise when that book showed up as it was not the one they wanted. I do not know who did make that decision but wonder if it was someone in the college bookstore.

That led to some problems for me as I was already having some problems with my better ear (which I did wear a hearing aid in by then) and put sound and lip reading together to understand the best. The instructor gave a lot of exceptions and updates to what was in Joy of Signing and it is hard to take notes and lip read at the same time!