And he was cued...

My problem with Cued speech is that it is a rigid way of developing language..while ASL and English are more natural languages. If hearing children are taught using language, why not deaf children too? Why should deaf children be taught by several invented systems rather than a true language which is either English (or any other spoken language) or ASL (or other signed languages)?
Click to expand...

What do you mean by "rigid?"
 
netrox said:
What do you mean by "rigid?"
Click to expand...

means that kids are not learning nor acquiring language like their hearing counterparts or like their deaf counterparts who learn ASL thru association rather than direct instruction. That's why it doesnt work for all deaf kids...
 
Ignorance is Bliss?

"I would wake up at night dreaming about that awful problem – the tragedy that deaf kids don't read." - Dr. R. Orin Cornett

Dr. R. Orin Cornett

Why isn't cued speech more widespread if it's so successful? I never came across it in UK or Australia, although I'm sure there are branches somewhere
Click to expand...



R2D2 - The CS center was closed at Gally in 1995 by I.King Jordan. The reason stated was "lack of funds". You may wish to believe that, but quite frankly it comes down to politics. Dr. Cornett's successful contribution to Gally and literacy issues for deaf children has yet to be duplicated.

NCSA, which is the association created with Dr. Cornett, is a charitable not for profit organzation.

Better yet R2D2.... take a good look at the Deaf community, at least in North America, you will find your answer.

I find it very sad that the same people, for which Dr. Cornett cared for emensely, would "trash" a system with a 40 year history, which has provided and will continue to provide an important tool for literacy.
 
netrox said:
I just wish that people should take cued speech much more seriously than SEE/PSE/LOVE.

None of the MCE's are linguistically sound - only Cued English is truly a complete language capable of conveying all the phonemes of languages visually.

People have been wasting so much time trying to teach deaf kids English with modified signs when all they needed to do is to *cue* to them like they would *speak* to the hearing!

Cueing is a visual counterpart of speaking. Cueing and speaking are separate processes and independent of each other BUT they co-exist perfectly. Cueing does not depend on speech and speaking does not depend on cuem (cues plus mouthshapes).

Studies have consistently find that deaf kids who are exposed to cued languages acquire them the same way as the hearing who are exposed to spoken languages.

Just think... if you can't hear, you need to see phonemes that are visual. Each cue represents a phoneme just like each speech sound represents a phoneme.

If teachers use cued English in deaf schools, I can tell you that their English language will FINALLY get on the par with the hearing but deaf politics, past bitterness, and ignorance are preventing deaf kids from having equal access to English. Remember, speech is NOT required. Deaf cuers can have terrible speech yet can cue perfect English!

By the way, I am a deaf cuer. Have been cueing since I was 8 years old. :)
Click to expand...

One question regarding to that statement..if deaf cuers dont need to develop good speech skills then who will they communicate socially if they dont know ASL nor able to use spoken English?

Can Spanish, French, Chinese, or any other languages be cued?
 
I never run into deafies with CS.. at all... I had looked at the video.. I could not undersand their cued sign langauges.at all... they kept covering their lips.. i could not understand one bit at all....
I rather to have ASL or English langauges...also PSE.. in which i am using ..
 
shel90 said:
One question regarding to that statement..if deaf cuers dont need to develop good speech skills then who will they communicate socially if they dont know ASL nor able to use spoken English?

Can Spanish, French, Chinese, or any other languages be cued?
Click to expand...

BINGO! Right back to the limited usefulness.
 
loml said:
"I would wake up at night dreaming about that awful problem – the tragedy that deaf kids don't read." - Dr. R. Orin Cornett

Dr. R. Orin Cornett





R2D2 - The CS center was closed at Gally in 1995 by I.King Jordan. The reason stated was "lack of funds". You may wish to believe that, but quite frankly it comes down to politics. Dr. Cornett's successful contribution to Gally and literacy issues for deaf children has yet to be duplicated.

NCSA, which is the association created with Dr. Cornett, is a charitable not for profit organzation.

Better yet R2D2.... take a good look at the Deaf community, at least in North America, you will find your answer.

I find it very sad that the same people, for which Dr. Cornett cared for emensely, would "trash" a system with a 40 year history, which has provided and will continue to provide an important tool for literacy.
Click to expand...

It has a 40 year history, but it is a 40 year history of unsucessful results in language acquisition issues that lead to literacy problems. You don't seem to understand that if you don't address the language aquisition issues you will never be able to devise any sort of a band-aid that will increase literacy scores. That is what CS is....a band aid for acquisition problems created by oralism.
 
SxyPorkie said:
I never run into deafies with CS.. at all... I had looked at the video.. I could not undersand their cued sign langauges.at all... they kept covering their lips.. i could not understand one bit at all....
I rather to have ASL or English langauges...also PSE.. in which i am using ..
Click to expand...

And chances are, you will never meet one.
 
I guess it's different strokes, different folks.

Hey Jeff (Netrox), what happened to your blog? It's so dormant.
 
jillio said:
And chances are, you will never meet one.
Click to expand...

As I mentioned in another thread, I met a CS transliterator once. In an area, Southern California, with a large and active deaf community, she told me she was one of the three or four CS transliterators in the area. I did not have a chance to observe her in action but I did think it was interesting that there was so little demand for it with such a large deaf population.
 
**nodding agreement** And in an area with fewer deaf, I don't imagine you will find even one. In the 21 years that I have been involved in the deaf community, I have never met one cuer.
 
jillo, do you mean someone who primarly cues? It's hard to believe that you would not have run into someone with SOME cueing experiance. It just seems to be such a good "tool" to have. Like it would be a good idear to use it in English classes, the way that hearing kids are taught phonetics. I gotta admit I think it would have been neat to use. I remember sitting in my secondgrade classroom being puzzled as heck as to what syllabels were, and what vowels were as well. SEEING the concept (thru CS) would have clarified some concepts like those. I also know that CS has evolved. Its basicly a "communication methodology", but other people have "invented" new methods to change it to a teaching tool.
 
I still use cued speech with deaf cuers even though I sign. Sometimes, I sign, sometimes I cue. It's the freedom of communication that I am fortunate to have.

"It has a 40 year history, but it is a 40 year history of unsucessful results in language acquisition issues that lead to literacy problems."

You really don't know what you are talking about. I am fluent in ASL and Cued English, and considering that I am familiar with linguistics, I know exactly what I am talking about.

"if deaf cuers dont need to develop good speech skills then who will they communicate socially if they dont know ASL nor able to use spoken English?"

They can only cue with other cuers. If they want to learn to speak, they need speech therapy. I speak okay but I definitely cue clearly. :)

"Can Spanish, French, Chinese, or any other languages be cued?"

Yes, of course.
 
deafdyke said:
jillo, do you mean someone who primarly cues? It's hard to believe that you would not have run into someone with SOME cueing experiance. It just seems to be such a good "tool" to have. Like it would be a good idear to use it in English classes, the way that hearing kids are taught phonetics. I gotta admit I think it would have been neat to use. I remember sitting in my secondgrade classroom being puzzled as heck as to what syllabels were, and what vowels were as well. SEEING the concept (thru CS) would have clarified some concepts like those. I also know that CS has evolved. Its basicly a "communication methodology", but other people have "invented" new methods to change it to a teaching tool.
Click to expand...

Nope, never met anyone who uses cues, even on a limited basis.
 
netrox said:
I still use cued speech with deaf cuers even though I sign. Sometimes, I sign, sometimes I cue. It's the freedom of communication that I am fortunate to have.

"It has a 40 year history, but it is a 40 year history of unsucessful results in language acquisition issues that lead to literacy problems."

You really don't know what you are talking about. I am fluent in ASL and Cued English, and considering that I am familiar with linguistics, I know exactly what I am talking about.

"if deaf cuers dont need to develop good speech skills then who will they communicate socially if they dont know ASL nor able to use spoken English?"

They can only cue with other cuers. If they want to learn to speak, they need speech therapy. I speak okay but I definitely cue clearly. :)

"Can Spanish, French, Chinese, or any other languages be cued?"

Yes, of course.
Click to expand...


Yes, I do know what I am talking about. I too am fluent in ASL and English, have studied linguistics extensively, as well as cognitive and educational psychology.
 
There's one in my town.(small town) I have never met her, but know of her. But then MIT has a HUGE HUGE Cued Speech program.
Netrox, didn't you once mention about a Deaf School or program that was using Cued speech for their English classes?
I think Cued Speech can and should be used as a tool. Exactly like the way phonetics is used to teach hearing kids to read. Phonetics aren't primarly used for the majority of the curriculm, but it does prove helpful in learning to read.
Why couldn't it be used as kind of a "bridge" from Sign to getting the concept of a sound based language through a visual system?
 
deafdyke said:
There's one in my town.(small town) I have never met her, but know of her. But then MIT has a HUGE HUGE Cued Speech program.
Netrox, didn't you once mention about a Deaf School or program that was using Cued speech for their English classes?
I think Cued Speech can and should be used as a tool. Exactly like the way phonetics is used to teach hearing kids to read. Phonetics aren't primarly used for the majority of the curriculm, but it does prove helpful in learning to read.
Why couldn't it be used as kind of a "bridge" from Sign to getting the concept of a sound based language through a visual system?
Click to expand...

MIT has a huge cued speech program? Not really ... we have one grad student who cues, and quite a few people (hearing) in his dept have learned, but I haven't seen any sign of a CS program in the sense of research.
 
Its not academic/research. Noam Chomsky isn't doing research on it lol. BUT they do have a CS center located there to push and promote CS to the public.
 
Back
Top