Ambien makes "vegetitive" people aware

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netrox

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This is just weird.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7-MDIml5GI&feature=related]YouTube - Effect of AMBIEN on a person with brain damage[/ame]

"We have a son of 36 who has been "minimally conscious" since he suffered brain damage due to a lack of oxygen twelve years ago.
Having seen the BBC documentary about the waking pill on the 04th of march 2008, we administered a Zolpidem pill to our son. Miraculously, after 30 minutes he seemed to come out of his "minimally conscious" state and began to act almost normally, he tried to speak, in what he succeeded, he took his food himself chewed well and swallowed, he took his drinking glass himself and started to drink, he laughed and was very alert something we hadn't seen in eleven years. We contiued to give him one pill of 10 mg every day. The outcome was the same every time, the pill worked during max six hours. On the sixth day the pill had no effect anymore. We waited four days and started again with the same results. Now we are trying to give one pill every two days to see if this works."

I've heard about cases of people who were minimally conscious and when they took Ambien, they become "normal" and seem to be aware of what's going on. It's a miracle but how the heck does Ambien wake them up?!?!

Ambien normally makes people sleep or do weird things and never remember the next day.

More on evidence that Ambien makes minimally conscious people wake up

Awakenings: Return To Life - 60 Minutes - CBS News
 
If this was Terri S. would they still withhold food and water?
 
A said:
If this was Terri S. would they still withhold food and water?
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Dispelled already in the article. Someone like Terri would not be able to benefit from the drug.

CBS said:
"Someone like Terri Schiavo would not have had brain activity that would have shown up in a functional MRI?" Cooper asks.

"No. There are many differences between a patient like Terri Schiavo and the patient that we scanned. The first thing is the type of brain damage," Owen says.
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CBS said:
There are several clinical trials of Ambien underway, but progress is slow, in part because minimally conscious people are scattered around the country in homes and nursing facilities, often far from research centers.

Another obstacle to treating these people is that they're frequently misdiagnosed -- said to be in a vegetative state, a more severe condition, considered hopeless after the first year.

"There have been some recent studies looking to see what the misdiagnosis rate was and they come up with a number of 40 percent," Dr. Schiff says.

"So the number of patients who are said to be in a vegetative state, who may actually be in a minimally conscious state, could be as high as 40 percent, 20, 30, 40 percent?" Cooper asks.

"In some context," Schiff says.

Why were people misdiagnosed?

Says Schiff, "You have to examine them repeatedly and at different times of the day, and sometimes just changing a patient’s posture, or giving them a tendon massage, may change their level sufficiently to elicit some response. So yeah, this is an evolving area of understanding."
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If you want to read how extensive Terri's brain damage was:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/HEALTH/06/15/schiavo.autopsy/
 
Similar to the case studies reported by Oliver Saks in "Awakenings". Dopamine was used to bring catatonic individuals out of their catatonia. Some had been catatonic for as long as 35-40 years. Unfortunately, the effects were not long lasting, and all eventually had to have meds withdrawn and slipped back into catatonia.

One of the most beneficial things that came out of these cases, however,was that those formerly in a catatonic state were able to describe the catatonia. We now know much, much more about what a patient who is catatonic is experiencing during that state.
 
jillio said:
Similar to the case studies reported by Oliver Saks in "Awakenings". Dopamine was used to bring catatonic individuals out of their catatonia. Some had been catatonic for as long as 35-40 years. Unfortunately, the effects were not long lasting, and all eventually had to have meds withdrawn and slipped back into catatonia.

One of the most beneficial things that came out of these cases, however,was that those formerly in a catatonic state were able to describe the catatonia. We now know much, much more about what a patient who is catatonic is experiencing during that state.
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I really liked the movie, Awakenings. It was somewhat sad though.
 
souggy said:
Dispelled already in the article. Someone like Terri would not be able to benefit from the drug.





If you want to read how extensive Terri's brain damage was:

CNN.com - Autopsy: No sign Schiavo was abused - Jun 15, 2005
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I'm aware of that. I was a nurse aide for a while and have cared for people on feeding tube. There's no response out of them. The only thing I see them do is wake up and sleep. I've seen people who are do know how to eat and drink but you have to feed them. They can't walk or respond to you though. They just seem to be aware it is time to eat so I know they are alert. And I also cared for comatose people who never wake up for anything. I was talking about WHAT IF.

I'm sure these people are on feeding tube if they can't feed themselves, no matter how alert they seem. If they can wake up like that, then it make it harder for some people turn off feeding tubes. Not that I agree with it (I only agree with it if the person is near her death, food make dying alittle more painful) , but I can see how it will complicate things.
 
Banjo said:
I really liked the movie, Awakenings. It was somewhat sad though.
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Yeah, I found it sad, as well. Especially since the movie was all based on real life case studies. The sadness lie in the fact that the results were only temporary, and eventually all patients returned to their catatonic state. But, reality is that they actually were happier there, so it really isn't as sad as we perceive it to be.
 
Babyblue said:
Interesting.... how sleeping pills are used to "wake" people up.
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Kind of like Ritalin and Adderall being used to calm the ADHD. Differences in brain chemistry create an opposite reaction.
 
I remember that movie, I would be interested to know where I could find the descriptions that temporarily-awakened patients had of their catatonia states?
 
*waiting for someone's accusation*
 
I knew Terri would be brought up. There's a huge difference - Terri's brain was severely damaged that no amount of drugs would "wake" her up... she's blind, her brain is less than half the normal weight, and there's massive destruction of neurons - she's a vegetable, sadly. They also found no evidence of abuse - she was well cared. It's a tragic story and we have no right to intervene their decisions that are based on solid facts and sound reasons.

I am sure she had anorexia which often leads to cardiac arrest and brain damage.
 
My late uncle had suffered a major stroke in his 40s. He did die, but I cannot recall how long he was dead. His brain had damaged badly. He could not talk at all except he had the ability to form his own sign language like shaking his head, nodding his head, waving his hands and arms. He could lift his glass to drink, but he depended on straw to make it easier for him to drink. He could read, but it was too much for him. He could not walk without someone guiding him. He had lived for another 15 years until he passed away in his sleep. His two sons had to take care of him full time, and did not regret it at all.
 
jillio said:
Kind of like Ritalin and Adderall being used to calm the ADHD. Differences in brain chemistry create an opposite reaction.
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That's not true actually. They do stimulate ADHD kids - they suffer insomnia and appetite loss. What the drugs do is that they increase blood flow to parts of the brain that were not well circulated. As a result, the inactive parts become active and are able to regulate their impulses.

I do think it's over-prescribed for many kids and adults.

Stimulants work well if taken in therapeutic doses for mental performance, even for people who do not have ADHD/ADD. The big danger is the risk of cardiovascular disease (leading to death in rare cases), psychosis (usually temporary), and addiction.
 
My uncle had a massive stroke and we pulled a plug on him and he died the next day. Absolutely no regret on our decision - we know it's what he wanted as well. Imagine how the government would butt in and tell us we cannot pull a plug on him?!?!
 
His son is a psychologist, and is involved with doctors who help people cope with a family member who suffered from any type of brain damage. They are currently working on publishing it. His other son is a doctor in physical therapy. My late uncle liked going to watch sport games, concerts, eating at restaurants, playing with his dogs, etc.

Every situation is different, you know.
 
My uncle did not respond to any stimuli at all. Only way to keep him alive is life support and it's pointless because the MRI revealed massive bleeding and doctors said the odds of recovering is virtually none - in other words, he was brain-dead.

If he could respond to stimuli then it would be a different story.
 
netrox said:
That's not true actually. They do stimulate ADHD kids - they suffer insomnia and appetite loss. What the drugs do is that they increase blood flow to parts of the brain that were not well circulated. As a result, the inactive parts become active and are able to regulate their impulses.

I do think it's over-prescribed for many kids and adults.

Stimulants work well if taken in therapeutic doses for mental performance, even for people who do not have ADHD/ADD. The big danger is the risk of cardiovascular disease (leading to death in rare cases), psychosis (usually temporary), and addiction.
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Let me clarify. Ritalin and Aderall are stimulants. In the normal brain, they are metabolized as such, and the individual gets a stimulant effect from them. In the ADHD brain, the chemicals that are deficient are stimulated, thus providing a calming effect in the brain that allows for greater ability to focus and less distractability.

If an individual is getting stimulant effects from an ADHD medication, then they are not neurologically ADHD and should not be on the meds.
 
jillio said:
Let me clarify. Ritalin and Aderall are stimulants. In the normal brain, they are metabolized as such, and the individual gets a stimulant effect from them. In the ADHD brain, the chemicals that are deficient are stimulated, thus providing a calming effect in the brain that allows for greater ability to focus and less distractability.

If an individual is getting stimulant effects from an ADHD medication, then they are not neurologically ADHD and should not be on the meds.
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Yup, a true ADHD child can be given coffee.... It calms them down.. seriously!!



Benadryl, will knock some people out while giving others adverse affects, such as hyperactivity.
 
Babyblue said:
Yup, a true ADHD child can be given coffee.... It calms them down.. seriously!!



Benadryl, will knock some people out while giving others adverse affects, such as hyperactivity.
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Exactly. Depends on the individual brain chemistry. People who have ADHD have a brain chemistry different than the population without it.
 
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