Accommodations At A Technical College

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HappinessCounts

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Hello,

Has anyone been to a technical college or vocational technical school? How is the process of accommodations in those schools?

I know college has a disability office for accommodations. I have used CART in college.

I am enrolled in a vocational type school but is now considered a technical college because some credits can be transferred to college.

I tried to set up accommodations a few weeks before but I was not reached until the day of orientation. I was told that none of the K-12 schools provide CART so that they can't provide it. They wondered if VR would provide the service. I am thinking it is the school's responsibility, but I have contacted VR to see what they say.

I really don't see the reason why they cannot provide CART. I am in one classroom all day at the same desk/computer. It is the perfect setting to have a CART provider. It will not be a problem. I am wondering if they think it's expensive, but I don't think they have a clue.

I am thinking that they are ignorant and don't know how easy this is once they have the right information. They thought it was some equipment that converts from speech to text. I explained it's a person that comes in and types like those at the court house and words are converted into a laptop. I asked for a note taker, but I don't even know if I have one.

Right now, I am doing the best with lipreading, but I am not used to this and the class is still new. The teacher is trying to be aware to face me. They keep saying they will work on trying to find speech to text software. I have no idea if they will find something. It's just words they say. The classes started two days ago. I am really nervous/concerned about it. They told me they want me to stay.

Also, one thing I did not notice is a formal writing of accommodations. Should there have been one? I feel some of the office staff are acting on edge about it because it looks like they know the situation.

I was told by VR that they send students there all the time. I did see an article of a deaf girl at the school in a program, so I believe she had an interpreter. They just aren't familiar with CART.

I feel defenseless. I have no idea what to expect from a vo tech/technical college type. It is a public school. College was easy to get accommodations. Does anyone know about the process in a vocational technical school? They don't have an office like in college.
 
If I recall right, ADA law specifies that the school has the right to determine what is "reasonable" accommodation, but you have the right to determine if the accommodation is working or not, and they have to follow suit.

It sounds like they're dragging their feet. If this were me, I would consider their conduct lackluster, and more importantly, negligent.
 
Does your school receive funding from the government?

Also, consider escalating. Who is the person above the people handling your situation?
 
I talked with VR counselor and she spoke with them. They say they do not have the funding. It's too expensive. I don't know how much CART cost. She said they say they are trying to work on a speech to text program. VR won't fund CART.

I feel really odd about this and alone in this. It doesn't seem normal to me but I don't know every situation about the ADA. I would think they receive funding from government. It's not a private school. It's part of the county schools.

I will get an FM system through VR as far as I know. I have no idea who is above the director at the school. The director is the one who personally spoke to me about this.

Anyone know how much CART vs an interpreter cost?
 
http://www.disabilityrightsca.org/pubs/530901.pdf I guess they can do whatever they want if they cannot afford it and looking for an alternative that is affordable.

"May my college or university ever refuse to provide me with an accommodation that I need?
Yes, but only under limited circumstances. The ADA and Section 504 only require schools to provide accommodations that are reasonable. Your school should not refuse to provide you with an accommodation, unless it can show that:
A. Providing the accommodation would create an undue financial or administrative burden for the school;
B. Providing the accommodation would fundamentally alter the school's academic program;
C. The requested accommodation is of a personal nature (for example, assistance with eating or help with toileting).
In response to your request for a specific accommodation, your school may suggest an alternative accommodation or way to provide equal access. You do not have to accept the school’s suggested accommodation, but you should keep in mind that you are not entitled to "the best" accommodation – just an accommodation that is effective and reasonable. "
 
HC, I'm sorry this situation's getting messy for you. :( For what it's worth, you've got a team here at AD rooting for you. I'll share what I know and do hope it helps. Please also feel free to send me a message on AD if you need anything. I also have to run to a meet, so I'm keeping this short and fast as I can.

I love how you do your research :) Mad props to you. You've clearly shown that the costs are similar for ASL interpreting and CART.

Also, I do very distinctly remember a clause that says if an option is not solving your communication access issue, it is not acceptable for them to implement that option. I would look through the documents if I had more time right now.

It's good news if they're public. If you have persistent problems with them, they are accountable to the US Department of Education's Office for Civil Rights, under which you are protected. You can file a complaint with them and they will send someone to investigate.

http://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/index.html
 
I asked the teacher about a note taker and she said that they are going over it at the meeting tomorrow. They have meetings and she said they are talking about this. I just don't get it, why do they have to go over this at the meeting to provide a note taker? Tomorrow, they will have a meeting and she mentioned the possibility of providing CART. I know she's not familiar about this, so I don't blame the teacher and it's really not her sole responsibility to approve of things and make changes. I told the teacher that I don't know what's going on, but she will tell me tomorrow.

I am not going to tell them it's okay and to take their time because that's not fair. I am emotionally stressed out and get internally upset. Discussions sucks. The teacher is understanding, but a CART will solve the problem. I have no way of knowing when they will resolve this...tomorrow, next week, several weeks?

So frustrating. Even VR can't do anything about it, which I find odd. I will ask the supervisor since my counselor may not know all of the facts.

How long will it take after I file a complaint for them to reach the school?

I don't think that this is fair. It's not like they get CART all throughout the year that they are going to go broke. They have obviously not had it before and is just new.

So weird and you think that the world has caught up with disability rights, but just because there are laws it doesn't mean there aren't problems.

Thanks for your input and encouragement.
 
I totally resonate with you. I've been down this road before and the first time around usually is all about fumbling around in the dark and being stressed out. Your persistence and your self-determination are admirable. You get badass props from me.

And you're welcome too :) Glad to help out what little I can :)

So I had a little extra time, and here are some things right off the bat:

1. OCR *may* take some time. I've never filed a complaint with them and can't account for the process from experience. It does, however, help enormously to have a bunch of documentation and proof. So if you go this route, save emails, record notes from all phone calls and meetings, etc. Document religiously. You'll need it to build a case.

Sometimes just having OCR make initial contact might get people to right the ship quickly.

If you want to achieve an accelerated solution, and probably one more diplomatic (also, one I recommend trying before going OCR), I offer some more advice later on in this post.


2. In the PDF you shared, look at page 24 of 41. I quote:

May my college or university ever refuse to provide me with an accommodation that I need?

Yes, but only under limited circumstances. The ADA and Section 504 only require schools to provide accommodations that are reasonable. Your school should not refuse to provide you with an accommodation, unless it can show that:

A. Providing the accommodation would create an undue financial or administrative burden for the school;
Click to expand...

By your comparison of interpreting vs CART fees, you have clearly shown that condition A does not apply. Further, even if A did apply, the burden of proof is on them, and my understanding is that they have not made any substantial effort to provide this such proof.

3. From what I understand you are in the right, and some arguments they give will have the effect of incorrectly confusing you. This is a confusing time, and you're going to be told messages like, "But interpreting works for other people. Why not you?" Disregard the content of these messages if your school is not clearly demonstrating effort in good faith to meet you halfway and find a win-win solution. Just because they're 'trying' does not mean that they may be demonstrating good effort.

You know what's best for you. They don't.

4. Advocates for you employed by the school are still representing the school's interest before yours. Be aware of this while you work with them. In a larger conflict, they will automatically default to protecting the interest of the school over yours. This includes teachers, disability services, and so forth.

This does not mean they are bad people, or that you have to protect yourself from them. Often they are really good people and they may just be trying to genuinely find a win-win solution. Sometimes they get confused or misguided too based on what they've done in the past.

5. Escalation sounds like the best strategy here. Instead of going to OCR first, I would escalate and try to make some friends along the way.

Find out who is in charge of authorizing accommodations. Find their boss. Call or e-mail to set up a meeting. Be direct and clear, but brief in your effort to engage. They will often defer you to someone under them (upper tier administration at schools are generally aversive to dealing with student issues). Don't let this happen. Redirect them and clarify that the individual they defer you to is unsuited to resolve the issue and explain briefly why (unless they actually are, in which case, go to that person and then re-escalate back up if the issue is not resolved. This way you show you're actually trying to work with them in good faith).

If the issue isn't resolved after dealing with the boss, find their boss and escalate up again. Repeat until the problem is solved or you end up talking to the President.

For the meeting(s), I would put everything into a quick sheet of paper that they can read. Print it on expensive paper, laminate it, put it in a plastic sleeve, or do something that makes it look nice. The sheet should quickly and clearly articulate your position, demonstrate the evidence, grant you credibility ("My 9999.0 GPA clearly shows I am not a student asking for an easy way out.", or whatever argument sets you apart), and give them an easy button to push to solve the problem. Dress to impress too. You want to give the feeling that you're all about business.

The easy button should be a straight request. "All I need is CART authorized and this will solve the problem." (I would write something more diplomatic and empathic, but I think you get the idea). The person you're talking with is likely busy, so if they can just push a button and move on, they're much more likely to solve the problem for you.

You want to leave the kind of impression where two years later when you graduate, they'll say, "You know, that student came to me a few years back and really impressed me with how intelligent and genuine they were." You made it a positive experience for them too. :)

Give them the sheet to keep when you leave the meeting. Make the whole thing short, sweet, effective, genuine, and respectful.

I hope that helps some.
 
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So weird and you think that the world has caught up with disability rights, but just because there are laws it doesn't mean there aren't problems.
Click to expand...

Hahahahahahaha! THAT :)
 
I found out that they know about VR funding for a new FM System, so now they are hanging on to that. They want me to try that and see how it goes for a few weeks. Nothing was mentioned about the speech-to-text software that they said they were working on. Nothing was mentioned regarding the note taker according to the teacher. I believe I will be dropping out due to lack of proper accommodations, and I don't want to owe money if for some reason it's not working later because I am using grants. If I decide to return later, obviously I will have to formally complain. I will think about it. I tried to solve this as quickly as I could. They were at fault for not responding to me before the start of school.
 
Man, I am REALLY sorry to hear about that. Inside, it makes me every bit livid that you had to go through all this and just to end up at that outcome.

If you're set on leaving, I would file the OCR complaint as I leave. It creates accountability and it may benefit you later on somehow. At the worst, you're leaving footprints that may benefit another person.

Also, if you contact the National Association of the Deaf, they may have more options for you (both legal and not). I had a friend once who got her master's degree, except the school wouldn't let her receive it (after taking all her courses!) because she was Deaf. NAD backed her and she won a landmark lawsuit.
 
Wow, Muse that was some amazingly thorough advice that is applicable in a variety of situations. I liked the emphasis of remaining positive and mutual good vibes. It is a bummer it didn't work out as a happy ending in this case.
 
HappinessCounts said:
I talked with VR counselor and she spoke with them. They say they do not have the funding. It's too expensive. I don't know how much CART cost. She said they say they are trying to work on a speech to text program. VR won't fund CART.

I feel really odd about this and alone in this. It doesn't seem normal to me but I don't know every situation about the ADA. I would think they receive funding from government. It's not a private school. It's part of the county schools.

I will get an FM system through VR as far as I know. I have no idea who is above the director at the school. The director is the one who personally spoke to me about this.

Anyone know how much CART vs an interpreter cost?
Click to expand...

They should be able to give you a note-taker. I had a note-taker for all 4 years of college.

CART may be out of their price range but they should be able to pay someone mini wage to take notes for you.

File the complaint now.
 
Just a story you may find interesting in that it involves using someone else's notes.

Back when I was in HS I took a civics course just in case because I was struggling with 2nd yr. shorthand. The instructor also taught for the community college that shared the campus. He told us right at the beginning that he was going to do it like his college class because those going on were going to have to get used to lecture courses. Another gal that was in that class was in his collage class later. She had struggled with it and I had not. She knew about the notes I had taken using a combination of shorthand and longhand that I then transcribed for myself. She then borrowed my HS notes to use in college and found them very helpful.

At the time my left ear had been gone since the age of 5 but my right ear was excellent.
 
I was never involved but have heard of getting together with a student with a reputation for good notes for that person to simply put a piece of carbon under the sheet they are writing on and make another copy to pass along.
 
Jane B. said:
I was never involved but have heard of getting together with a student with a reputation for good notes for that person to simply put a piece of carbon under the sheet they are writing on and make another copy to pass along.
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I told them about the carbon copy notes. I have not been up to fighting this. I feel embarrassed enough.
 
HappinessCounts said:
I told them about the carbon copy notes. I have not been up to fighting this. I feel embarrassed enough.
Click to expand...

I don't know who you told but that is something you could do on your own. If you know someone in the class that takes good notes, just ask that person if they would give you a copy and suggest the carbon method as something that would not be more work.
 
You don't have to officially have this written on paper? Colleges have a formal accommodations paper for students to sign and give to instructors. This technical school had nothing. I spoke to the director. They don't have an official person that handles disability needs.
 
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