A hate crime....

jillio said:
So, Blacks, women, the GLTB populations aren't marginalized?
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Yes jillio. Blacks, women, and the GLTB are VERY marginalized.

That doesn't mean that one life is more important or valuable than another. There are unintended negative consequences of well meaning legislation.
 
DaveM said:
Yes jillio. Blacks, women, and the GLTB are VERY marginalized.

That doesn't mean that one life is more important or valuable than another. There are unintended negative consequences of well meaning legislation.
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But it does mean that they are at far greater risk at being attacked or murdered just because of their marginalized status. Criminal codes and punsihment figure that in.

Hate crime laws serve to equalize that which is inherently unequal.
 
jillio said:
But it does mean that they are at far greater risk at being attacked or murdered just because of their marginalized status. Criminal codes and punsihment figure that in.

Hate crime laws serve to equalize that which is inherently unequal.
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Exactly.
 
Where is the outrage over the rest of the hate crimes against gay men? Why only this one? From (because I am lazy) Wiki: US In 2008, 17.6% of hate crimes were based on the victim's perceived sexual orientation. Of those crimes, 72.23% were violent in nature. 4,704 crimes were committed due to racial bias and 1,617 were committed due to sexual orientation.

I cannot recall one single post supporting an anti-gay hate crime coming from the OP. Only when Ann Coulter's name is mentioned do we see the real purpose of posting this article. It never ends...

And this story might have drawn more interest in the GLBT section. Just saying.
 
jillio said:
But it does mean that they are at far greater risk at being attacked or murdered just because of their marginalized status. Criminal codes and punsihment figure that in.

Hate crime laws serve to equalize that which is inherently unequal.
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And what of the elderly or weak? Criminals prey on easy targets.

When you say hate crimes serve to equalize that which is inherently equal, that's my problem with "government equalizing." Never a good thing.

Whenever government tries to equalize, the opposite tends to happen.
 
DaveM said:
And what of the elderly or weak? Criminals prey on easy targets.

When you say hate crimes serve to equalize that which is inherently equal, that's my problem with "government equalizing." Never a good thing.

Whenever government tries to equalize, the opposite tends to happen.
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What crimes, specifically, are you referring to in reference to the elderly or the weak? And please operationally define "weak". That term is far to vague to address.

Then, you support lesser sentencing for those of marginalized groups that are attacked and beaten for no other reason than the fact that they are part of a marginalized group.
 
saywhatkid said:
Where is the outrage over the rest of the hate crimes against gay men? Why only this one? From (because I am lazy) Wiki: US In 2008, 17.6% of hate crimes were based on the victim's perceived sexual orientation. Of those crimes, 72.23% were violent in nature. 4,704 crimes were committed due to racial bias and 1,617 were committed due to sexual orientation.

I cannot recall one single post supporting an anti-gay hate crime coming from the OP. Only when Ann Coulter's name is mentioned do we see the real purpose of posting this article. It never ends...

And this story might have drawn more interest in the GLBT section. Just saying.
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OP is afraid of the GLTB section.:giggle:
 
DaveM said:
And what of the elderly or weak? Criminals prey on easy targets.

When you say hate crimes serve to equalize that which is inherently equal, that's my problem with "government equalizing." Never a good thing.

Whenever government tries to equalize, the opposite tends to happen.
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Everyone is equal under the law.

The worry is the boundary of hate crime laws. What defines hate and what makes it a crime exactly? If I called you an asshole because you have blue hair, is that a hate crime? Or am I entitled to free speech?

It's a bit of a grey area that can be easily abused if not strictly defined and limited to acts of stalking , harassment, and viiolence. As in actual acts that shouldn't need to be categorized as hate crime nor require its own set of laws in order to punish the offender who is breaking the law designed to protect ALL people.

It's sad there has to be a category for hate crimes, that must indicate how prevalent it is.
 
jillio said:
What crimes, specifically, are you referring to in reference to the elderly or the weak? And please operationally define "weak". That term is far to vague to address.

Then, you support lesser sentencing for those of marginalized groups that are attacked and beaten for no other reason than the fact that they are part of a marginalized group.
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No, jillion. Of course I don't support lesser punishment, I support equal punishment for equal crimes. Murder = murder. Assault = assault.

When a husband murders his wife in a fit of rage, how is that less important than if a gay basher murders a homosexual in a fit of rage?

You feel that because gays are more marginalized that the life of a gay individual is more important than the battered wife? Therefore should be punished more?

Once you start valuing one human life as more important than another, or allowing a loose interpretation on what goes on in a criminals head, you're getting into the territory of "thought crime."

Violence against anybody is disgusting and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Always. No matter race, religion, sexuality, or age.
 
DaveM said:
No, jillion. Of course I don't support lesser punishment, I support equal punishment for equal crimes. Murder = murder. Assault = assault.

When a husband murders his wife in a fit of rage, how is that less important than if a gay basher murders a homosexual in a fit of rage?

You feel that because are more marginalized that the life of a gay individual is more important than the battered wife? Therefore should be punished more?

Once you start valuing one human life as more important than another, or allowing a loose interpretation on what goes on in a criminals head, you're getting into the territory of "thought crime."

Violence against anybody is disgusting and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Always. No matter race, religion, sexuality, or age.
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If you don't support lesser punishment then you must support hate crime laws. You are contradicting yourself.

There are special category of law for domestic violence crimes. It adds time to the sentence. There are special categories for various types of murders that increase the sentencing. You are trying to compare apples to oranges. Like I said, intent always is a factor in criminal charges. Why should that be less so for marginalized populations?
 
DaveM said:
No, jillion. Of course I don't support lesser punishment, I support equal punishment for equal crimes. Murder = murder. Assault = assault.

When a husband murders his wife in a fit of rage, how is that less important than if a gay basher murders a homosexual in a fit of rage?

You feel that because are more marginalized that the life of a gay individual is more important than the battered wife? Therefore should be punished more?

Once you start valuing one human life as more important than another, or allowing a loose interpretation on what goes on in a criminals head, you're getting into the territory of "thought crime."

Violence against anybody is disgusting and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Always. No matter race, religion, sexuality, or age.
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What jillio is saying is that punishment for offenders against gays, prostitutes, addicts and minorities tend to be less severe because of biases against them. Hate crime laws were designed to ensure they receive equal attention and justice. For example, black women getting beaten is often ignored by cops. They think it's typical ghetto behaviour. But a white woman getting beaten? They'll come to her aid, if she's not a working street girl that is.

If people were truly equal under the eyes of the law - they'd be receiving equal attention to their cases, and be given equal priority and equal right to fair counsel. But that's not the case. Because they are marginalized by society.

It's not an issue of comparing similiar crimes and saying they are equally horrible. They're horrible no matter what, the issue is the discrepancy in justice between them.
 
DaveM,

Rush wrote an article that pretty described about the problems of attaching the word "hate crime" to an event and notes how it's all skewed to one side:
"Were this a white-on-black hate crime," said Rush, "there is no escaping the fact that it would be national news for months, and every prominent black career civil rights activist in America would be calling for the death penalty."
.
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"Certainly, this crime is no more or less heinous than would be a white-on-black hate crime," said Rush,"
.
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As Rush recently said in an interview with Family Security Matters, "The Left has pretty much got the reins on the press, and a lot of the news bureau chiefs and the journalists are likeminded people who went to a lot of the same universities, they were schooled in hard Left journalism. They really have lost that concern for what the truth is."
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'Hate crime' charges filed over heinous attack

I suggest you read what Mr. Rush has to say. Very enlightening read.
 
DeafCaroline said:
What jillio is saying is that punishment for offenders against gays, prostitutes, addicts and minorities tend to be less severe because of biases against them. Hate crime laws were designed to ensure they receive equal attention and justice. For example, black women getting beaten is often ignored by cops. They think it's typical ghetto behaviour. But a white woman getting beaten? They'll come to her aid, if she's not a working street girl that is.

If people were truly equal under the eyes of the law - they'd be receiving equal attention to their cases, and be given equal priority and equal right to fair counsel. But that's not the case. Because they are marginalized by society.

It's not an issue of comparing similiar crimes and saying they are equally horrible. They're horrible no matter what, the issue is the discrepancy in justice between them.
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Discrepancy is the key word there. There's a reason why many serial killers go after prostitutes instead of socialites.
 
Rush?:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:

Now there's a source to use in the discussion of hatred. He spews enough of it to put bucks in his pocket!:laugh2:
 
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