SCBassist

People reported an F-117 back in the 70's, I'll bet what they saw was a B-3 of sorts. I mean, think about it, if you were ET observing humans, would you really give evidence of your existence away?

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Deafness

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authentic

Hallucination don't always caused by drugs.

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BradB08

So what if they did see something? Who are you to tell them that they didn't?

shel90

It was all over the news in Phx and so many people I know saw it personally. I was in the hospital room and couldnt see it myself. It did eventually become international news.

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shel90

I know my mom and grandmother werent on drugs when they left after visiting me the hospital to see it.

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"Wine improves with age. The older I get, the better I like it."

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flyingace

when I was about 12, I was staying up late at night to spy on a party the guys in the house next door were having, and saw strange lights in the sky, it didn't last long but I knew it wasn't a plane, helicopter, or fireflies. Nobody believed me, but I never forgot it or the scared feeling I had.

As for why people don't see more UFOs in the daytime, perhaps there's too much air traffic-there aren't many flights late at night-or maybe, like in "Signs", UFOs have camouflage shields so we can't see them.

BradB08

Another argument as to why has to do with them being on a different wavelength/frequency to where we cannot see them. Infrared and night-vision cameras have the possibility to see UFOs during the day and even at night because they are sometimes tuned into the right light frequencies.

Steel X

I'm pretty sure the other picture with the light toward the man is a fake as well.

IndieVisible

What ever these UFO's are, they are not from alien life forces visiting our planet.

Reality Check: if we were to be visited by advanced life forces able to over come the laws of physics and energy to travel great distances quickly. I'm sure whatever space crafts they used would look a whole lot cooler and more advanced then the usual cigar shapped, suacer shaped or triangle shaped things we see photographed. lol.

I am more inclined to believe these UFO's are from this planet.

BradB08

They don't need to use much technology to wow people. The U.S military has been reverse engineering extraterrestrial technology for decades anyway.

IndieVisible

But they would need a lot of technology to get here!
I think what people are seeing are gov projects or fakes.

shel90

That is what a lot of people say. I believe the same.

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"Wine improves with age. The older I get, the better I like it."

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BradB08

There certainly are government projects, aka "black ops" but there are also sightings that do not match the descriptions typically given by NASA and other agencies.

It's not a question of how much technology, but rather how evolved they are when compared to us.

As for my comment about nightvision, infrared light and UFOs, here's two videos:


UFO Fleet Formation Filmed with Nightvision Camera Video

Keep in mind, I nor anyone else can expect to successfully persuade others that extraterrestrial life exists. That is a conclusion that can only be drawn by each individual. However, we may find out that things really aren't what we thought they were someday in the future (2012 perhaps).

IndieVisible

Pretty slow moving UFO's. Sorry I would love to believe, honest, and I keep a open mind too, but I have seen nothing remotely to suggest or hint to aliens visiting us. It's just science keeps getting in my way. If aliens were able to visit us, it would be in more advanced ships then we are seeing

BradB08

Again, as I said, they have the technology to "cloak" themselves using different radio frequencies. We have this technology too.

Let me propose a question: Do you really think that humans came up with x-rays and other types of once-exotic technologies without any help?

Again, carry on. I just refuse to believe what NASA says and can draw my own conclusions. I was a huge X-Files fan when I was younger and that kindled my interest in the paranormal and extraterrestrial stuff.

BradB08

To answer this directly, science can only explain so much. We have only a basic understanding of how our own universe works and everyday, science is being challenged by new theories and discoveries. That is why it is important to have an open mind. If we did not have an agency like NASA getting in the way, we would know more about what goes on behind the scenes. The average person has nothing to lose but ultimately, disclosure has to be done slowly in order for the general public to digest it properly and not result in panic and chaos.

IndieVisible

Please feel free to believe in what you want. i am not judging you poorly for your beliefs. I am just saying I do not believe we have seen any credible evidence yet that we have been visted by aliens. That does not mean we have not yet or will not. It just means every thing we have seen is not aliens. And yes, I believe we invented x-rays.

I am convinced if there was a alien visit it would be so much more spectacular then any of the photos or videos we have seen so far.

perhaps we will be the advanced aliens to visit another world first? In another 1000 years we might have that technology. Earth is only 3 billion years old, a mere toddler in cosmic time.

flyingace

Frankly, I wouldn't mind if this debate over whether or not there is other life in the universe went on forever, because every time some great question is answered, it's a disappointment in a way, much like finding out how magic tricks are done. It's more fun to speculate on some things.

BradB08

One of the ideas that I agree with is that we are primitive compared to other possible life forms out in the universe. Not originally my idea but I agree with it.

BradB08

NASA is usually doing the "magic tricks" and here's some food for thought:

Denver UFO Examiner: EU space official supports UFO disclosure – says NASA can’t be trusted

Byrdie714

Okay.....then what was Roswell?

Byrdie714

Also what about Area 51?

flyingace

I don't believe anything anyone in any space agency says. They're too worried that if they admitted we're not alone, people would panic.

flyingace

Area 51 is probably research of something that the government would prefer we think is alien technology because the reality would knock our socks off.

Roswell may be a myth, but like I said, it's more fun to have myths than to have them disproven.

naisho

This is gonna be a real debate clash because there's people that don't believe in it, and people that do believe, and the ones that won't believe until they actually see it.

The only things that influence my viewpoint is the history of UFO's and the timeline that they were reported in. It isn't just limited to the 20th century 1900+ and beyond. I recall reading some old books WITH credible painting by early AD authors and painters who would recall about strange lights and objects taking off super fast back like we're talking 1400 AD. Roswell aside, let's take a dive into it and see:

Let me see if I can find a few.
Here you go, off wikipedia (note, not all sources cited here should be credited, but I believe the following info is accurate enough to denote the fact that UFOs have been around for quite some time).


"The Baptism of Christ", 1710, by Aert de Gelder. Proponents say this painting depicts UFOs.


On April 14, 1561 the skies over Nuremberg, Germany were reportedly filled with a multitude of objects. Woodcut from 1566 by Hans Glaser.


Drawing of E. W. Maunder's November 17, 1882 "auroral beam" by astronomer Rand Capron, Guildown Observatory, Surrey, UK, who also observed it.


This cave painting is c.10,000 BC and is from Val Camonica, Italy.
It appears to depict two beings in protective suits holding strange implements.


Petroglyphs dating back thousands of years ago by ancient Indians in the American Southwest. According to Indian folklore, two objects collided high in the sky and one crash-landed in the region of Death Valley. Some men arrived (presumably in another ship) and spent some time repairing the damaged craft and were observed by the local Indians. The two images below may possibly depict the ship (left) used by the men who came to repair the damaged craft. In comparing the two images, the one on the right seems to depict structural damage around the edges and the bottom. Could it be the one that allegedly crashed? The images are stills taken from an old TV series entitled "In search of..." hosted by Leonard Nimoy.


Two cave paintings from Tanzania. Both are estimated to be up to 29,000 years old. The one on the left is located in Itolo and depicts several disc shaped objects. The other painting is from Kolo shows four entities surrounding a women. Notice also the entity looking down from inside some sort of box or object.


This is an old Chinese illustration from a fictional book entitled "Illustrated Survey of Weird Countries" (c.1400 A.D.) and had the following original caption: "Ji Gung Land: The people could make flying cars that travelled far with a suitable wind. In Tarng's day (c.1700 B.C.), Ji Gung people flying a car on a westerley reached Yew Jo. Tarng dismantled their car so it could not be demonstrated to the people ... Later an east wind came on which he had them fly the car back to their own country [5,000 km] west of our gateway."



Illustration depicting a sighting of a burning wheel in the year 900 over Japan.



This is a tapestry called Summer's Triumph It was created in Bruges in 1538 and presently resides at the Bayerisches National Museum. You can clearly see several disc shaped objects in the top of the tapestry.


A fourteenth century fresco of the Madonna and Child depict on the top right side the image of a UFO hovering in the distance. A blow up of this fresco reveals tremendous details about this UFO including port holes. It seems to indicate a religious involvement between UFO's and the appearance of the Christ Child.
My note: The current Original painting is in the "Loeser Collection" in italy.

This painting is called "The Madonna with Saint Giovannino". It was painted in the 15th century by Domenico Ghirlandaio (1449-1494) and hangs as part of the Loeser collection in the Palazzo Vecchio. Above Mary's right shoulder is a disk shaped object. Below is a blow up of this section and a man and his dog can clearly be seen looking up at the object.



The painting above was done by Carlo Crivelli (1430-1495) and is called "The Annunciation with Saint Emidius" (1486) and hangs in the National Gallery, London. A disk shaped object is shining a pencil beam of light down into Mary's crown chakra. A blow up of the object is next to the painting.

With these few examples above, note that this isn't all the collection of UFOs in ancient history.. We can assume, fast and quick flying objects should not have been available as early as those times. Therefore, how did they get there?

Looking at wikipedia - CLAIMS, note CLAIMS of the first seen flying man-made objects:
First flying machine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
11th entry, most realistic:
Pilâtre de Rozier, Paris, France, first trip by a human in a free-flying balloon (the Montgolfière). 9 km covered in 25 minutes. October 15, 1783
We all know that the first "real" airplane was made by the Wright Brothers during the 1900s. Early stages of their flight models were depicted by glider type aircrafts, NOT round things.

There are only 3 grand logical assumptions we can draw:
1. The artists have lied or these were imaginary (albeit kind of doesn't make sense, due to the fact that we have MANY many early paintings depicting UFOs pre-Wright Brothers)
2. The artists have actually seen them
2a. The artists mistook it for something else
2b. The artists were under the effect of drugs
2c. The artists were influenced by something else to draw them
3. These paintings are fake
(4.) Someone took a time machine back from the future and did these to these guys.

I find it hard to argue with Logical Reasoning, which is my approach to the whole UFO situation. If A occurred, then B and C have to occur subsequently otherwise it doesn't make sense how A got to C in the first place. I have my thoughts and doubts that some of the incidents out there today are hoaxes, but not all.
If enough supporting evidence in the past suggests that UFO's exist, then why can today's evidence be shunned?

So, what's everyone's take now?

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flyingace

first off, I never take anything in Wikipedia as gospel truth. Second of all, if these objects have appeared in artworks all along, they'd be more widely known, and I've never heard about strange objects in any artworks before. It looks to me like someone Photoshopped UFO's in old artworks.

Byrdie714

And there is usually some basis of truth in myths as well.

flyingace

There always is a basis of truth in myths. I think myths are like the "telephone game", where something true is passed along, acquiring the tellers' version of it as it gets passed along, until you can't tell what the truth is and what the various tellers' perception of the truth is. Figuring out what's the true part and what's gotten made up is what's fun about myths.

naisho

I know, I don't believe in everything wikipedia says, and that is why I stated it in early on. As a matter of fact, only the first 3 photos are from wikipedia, and the rest are a collection off a site.

Isn't the skepticism a little bit extreme however, as to say these are photoshopped? If you try googling for the actual names, or if you don't believe me and visited the art galleries stated in the descriptions - they are available on display to see. Yes, myself honestly I have never visited them in reality to view it so I cannot say for sure - but the logic is, if they cited where it is located, what do they have to lose? Why photoshop them and then say it is located here? Wouldn't it be better to keep it a secret? If some UFO-buster guy were to actually visit and find the whole thing a hoax and the paintings are photoshopped, shouldn't it be all over in the news and the people who have the fake "photoshopped" pictures get busted for all forms of credibility?

First one is called "Baptism of christ" by Aert De Gelder - it is located in the Fitzwilliam Museum, Cambridge - sources everywhere state this, both non ufo and ufo sites.

Ninth is called Summer's Triumph and in the description, it resides in Bayerisches National Museum.

Last is called The Annunciation with Saint Emidius. In the National Gallery, London. Maybe someone who lives in UK can testify this for us?

What I'm trying to say is - not to bash your ideas in, not at all. The level of information available on these paintings are all out there, both NON-ufo and UFO sites and they both have the same pictures. Now with the locations depicted in their paintings - one can simply go to those sites listed, or go google them if they are still skeptical of these presented.

I'd rather save a few bucks and believe that they (the paintings) are actually around the way they are shown here- because enough credible sources on the net are already sharing the same information. Note that none of these sources are from wikipedia.

You may have never seen these because you were not exposed to enough of the media to get an idea of the history of UFO's. It is a touchy subject, and as you can see there is a lot of religion in these paintings as well. Like I said, I personally had to read it off a book/magazines.

flyingace

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to shoot down your theories. I'm not saying I don't believe it- I just like to see for myself before I believe anything. And if an alien landed in my back yard, I'd be scared but I'd also be fascinated.

I bet people who post those things bank on people accepting that they say it's true and don't bother to investigate for themselves. I'll look them up when I have the time because when I research stuff I tend to lose myself in Googleland for hours.

And, people tend to see what they want to see. The objects purported to be UFO's could be an artist's imagination, representing something that might have made sense to people in the artist's lifetime, but what we interpret as UFO's.