blondon704

I am currently learning and teaching my family ASL. Ultimately that is what I would like for them all to pick up, however, I am still very beginnerish at it, very slow, terrible at sentence structure and so on. So when I do story time at night with my kids I do the stories in SEE. My question is, since everyone is still so small will it be ok to continue to do SEE or should I stop? I don't want things to get confusing and I kind of feel like it might, but I love our story time and I feel like the more I enforce my own SEE it may help out in the long run with ASL... I found a really awesome website that does stories in ASL but bed time is a little ritual thing for us to do together and I would like to keep it that way not just plopping everyone in front of the computer to watch a story.
any thoughts or suggestions?

Deafness

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kellycat

Are you voicing the stories while you sign them? It is really difficult, if not impossible for most people to voice English while signing in ASL. You have to express yourself in two languages with different grammar and word order at the same time. Most brains don't work well that way. If you do voice and sign, PSE might be as close as you can get.

CSign

If you are reading books verbally and signing at the same time, SEE (Signing Exact English) would be the most appropriate. PSE isn't a complete language and won't be beneficial for any child in terms of developing a complete language.

You can also tell the stories in ASL; but you shouldn't voice in English because as Kellycat was mentioning, it would be confusing as ASL and English are two distinct languages.

I think it depends on what your goals are for your child, but I don't think it would be confusing for your child to use both as long as you keep the two separate. I am inferring from your post that you want your child to be proficient in English and ASL. If you are more comfortable at this point reading and using SEE during storytime I don't see anything wrong with that.

Maybe you could dedicate one or two nights a week where you read/tell one
story in ASL, to start building your confidence with it. That way your skills will
be improving, and your child will have (perhaps?) a more complete language
model majority of the time.

I would just say that when you read books (as in your example) either tell the
story in ASL, or read the book in English/SEE.

How old is your child?

We used SEE with my son and also use ASL. SEE was created with a specific
purpose, and when used appropriately can be an effective tool in developing
English proficiency. ASL is an integral part of the picture, and I'm happy to
read that you and your family are learning ASL too.

shel90

I would start off with ASL for language development instead of SEE because ASL is able to include all the story elements while SEE doesnt.

I am a teacher of deaf children in a Bilingual/Bicultural deaf program. Our young ones are exposed to ASL when using sign language or English in the spoken form. We dont use SEE as it is linguistically confusing for the little ones.

I know it is hard to master ASL in such a short time but it is not impossible.

Good luck!

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CSign

Shel- do you mean that teachers at your school use spoken English and ASL simultaneously? I got the impression from BLondon that she was reading the books out loud. I could have misinterpreted what she wrote though...

Bottesini

Oh dear. I don't want to have to take on the mantle of others who can't be here right now.

But you know very well Shel didn't mean that.

It's a bad idea for you to start giving people advice that will mess their kids up.

There's still enough of us who will say something if we need to.

blondon704

I am reading out loud. Bed time consists of me and all four of the babies :-) my oldest daughter is 6, oldest son the one with hearing loss is 3, youngest daughter is 2 and then the baby, another possible hearing loss we find out friday is 9 months, he doesn't do much with story time just sits and drools haha. It's kind of like our own circle time complete with rug and all. *Thank you all for your responses. I have been trying really hard and I am finding it difficult with little resources. The internet has been wonderful I have learned very much but I would prefer to take face to face classes. One day.

Reba

Since all your kids are young, it would be fairly easy and quick for them to all pick up the ASL story telling. If you aren't yet ready to fluently produce ASL story telling, then maybe you could try consecutive spoken/signing story telling, not simultaneous (which is impossible anyway). Be sure to add lots of facial expression and interaction. Let the kids fill in what you don't know.

In the beginning, stick with stories that the kids already know, so they can fill in your gaps.

Since it's family time, not school time, keep it fun, not serious.

Just my personal opinion.

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Smithtr

I am experience ASL and SEE

because I was experience complication blocked

interpreter blocked SEE blocked me misunderstand long grammer complication confused hard to understand too many!
I am manually to ASL I do transfer to accept to offer to understand to clear ASL clear fast to short abbreviation pretty! I am aware it on lots of worst to bad misunderstand blocked barries on communication to SEE sound look! I understand! i understand

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CSign

Bott- I didn't think that's what she meant, but I wasn't sure. That's why I asked for clarification.

I certainly wouldn't give advice that would "mess their kids up". That's not my intention at all. My son came out on the other end just fine and proficient in English and working on his mastery of ASL. BLondon asked for opinions and I gave mine. That's all.

I appreciated the way Shel expressed her point of view which is a bit different from mine, but without turning it into an argument. We don't all have to agree on things- everyone has an opinion. That's it. BLondon can make whatever determination feels most appropriate and effective for her and her child.

If you'll note, my OP in this thread supported the use of ASL. I am well aware of the great value ASL provides for individuals who are DHH.

Smithtr

Really interesting!!, my opinion, your decision your choices your reason choices up to your reason I understand my opinion! my perpective notice possibles another people lots of people worlds the dhh and of hearing people have problem not aware!

interesting!

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Bottesini

THe bolded is the part I am most worried about.

I may feel it's appropriate and effective to use a pack of Huskies as caregivers for my child, but I may be wrong, and my child may not develop very well.

So if I jump in advising new parents to use sled dogs as nannies, someone who knows the deleterious effects should probably jump in to say it isn't in the child's best interest.

Just as SEE used in place of a language is not in the child's best interest.

If it is an HOH child who also benefits from spoken language, Reba's suggestion is best here so far.

ASL for the sign language, here in the US, no matter whether deaf or HOH.

CSign

Bott- I wasn't referring to SEE in place of language. I was referring to it as a supplement to spoken English. I agree Reba had a good suggestion.

dogmom

but...why supplement at all? I'm wondering if that muddies things up....

AlleyCat

And, for story-telling, it would be so much better told in ASL. Sorry, no criticism meant to Blondon. I understand what Blondon was getting at. Stories are often told best in pictures, rather than specific words, as far as sign language. All the animation, everything.

CSign

In my OP, I made reference to "it depends on what your goals are". If she wants to provide her child with face to face exposure to English to help develop proficiency, and an opportunity to develop speech and work on auditory skills it would need to be done in English. Using SEE would provide her child with access to English visually, if it wasn't auditorily accessible (or misunderstood). I think the other important consideration is that she has 3 other children who are hearing (or maybe 2) who need to develop a mastery of English- and ASL.

This parent needs to find the balance that will meet the needs of all her children. It's a balancing act that eventually figures itself out.

It would only get muddled if the OP uses ASL and spoken English simultaneously. So long as she keeps the two separate, there wouldn't be any confusion.

KristinaB

My son, who knows about 10 words in ASL and no ASL grammar, was trying to practice telling a story with hand shapes for a visual story. He told a simple story (Goldilocks & the 3 bears) using nothing but hand shapes and such to a teddy bear. I got a quick video of it and showed it to someone at my Deaf church. They said he actually did a good job and was able to tell exactly what he was saying. He got a lot of the actual signs done correctly that he didn't even know. Sadly, I no longer have the video as hubby deleted by mistake.

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AlleyCat

The bolded - NOT TRUE. Please don't put out non-truths. You know this as well as I do. Too many of us were raised with ASL (such as I) and still maintain proficiency in English. These are two entirely separate languages, and SEE is not a requirement for learning English.

CSign

In reference to the bolded portion above, I never stated that SEE was a requirement of learning English. I stated that it can be an effective tool.

"Signing Exact English is a sign language system that represents literal English. *To make visible everything that is not heard, S.E.E. supplements what a child can get from hearing and speechreading. *Since American Sign Language (ASL) has different vocabulary, idioms and syntax from English, SEE modifies and supplements the vocabulary of ASL so children can see clearly what is said in English. *****This system was first made available in 1972."

Home


If you'll re-read what I posted, I made reference at least two times to the fact that ASL and English are two distinct languages and shouldn't be used together when communicating with a child who is developing language.

AlleyCat

But that's just it. SEE is entirely unnecessary even for those who can't access English auditorily.

Not doing this same old fight again. Good luck pressing your non-truths about SEE being necessary to access English. I don't go by reading excerpts from a book. I go by exactly how many of us were raised without SEE and we have perfect English, thank you very much.

AlleyCat

Which, in your book, is about the same thing. Whether it's a requirement or a tool. That was just a paragraph full of semantics. You still think it's needed to learn English.

Smithtr

I aware it SEE already once time SEE sign languague translarte I am development I already experience to SEE development grammar strutence to grammar because

ASL limit because missing to sentence on reason I tell you
no full grammar

SEE I was already grow up school deaf community! teach me control out reason I see notice book already!

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Smithtr

I suggest to Reba is better recommmand to answer to question , my opinion preception but

Reba good advise to ASL otherwise good points more skill experience than I do!

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shel90

Are there any ASL programs in your area?

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blondon704

They used to offer ASL at our vocational school but that was forever ago. I have looked in to doing classes on-line but I never know what is real and what is a scam. I am sure there are some legitimate ones out there but I don't want to pay all kinds of money to be let down. I have done a lot on lifeprint.com that has been really helpful.

Bottesini

Isn't there one through early intervention for your son?

Smithtr

@blondon704 want to education to search find to match ASL course because won't to pay because offer to education to asl real,want to practice to education to ASL reason, improve ASL education! that is reason not none school! I think so private not sure

I guess private school or something specially privates

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blondon704

We had him in a program called birth to three, basically we had a speech therapist (among other therapists) come to our home weekly and teach him basic signs they weren't teachers or anything they just brought what they knew. There is a program offered through the WVDB is a program called ski hi. Another in home program that came 2 a month doing the same, offering the same thing, but honestly, not due to the instructor case worker girl she was awesome, the program was just lacking. I did get a really nice book from them. The birth to three program is the ones who set up everything for him to go to the school that he is at now, because their resources are tapped after 3 years of age, apparently. They do no continuing services, same for the ski hi program they stop at 5. We opted to go ahead and cancel ski hi because they weren't going to be able to work around his school schedule, and because they just weren't really doing anything.
*Does any of this make sense?
We have looked in to the surrounding counties for more resources but they all have the same. It's the whole bottom part of this state that is lacking resources.

CSign

Generally speaking, birth-3 the child is served by the county office. From 3-5 it is still considered early intervention, but it's your local school district that is responsible for providing services.

You just have to be assertive on what he needs, because regardless of the location they are responsible for providing him with a Free and Appropriate Public Education (FAPE). School districts are notorious for providing minimal and/or inappropriate services. Sometimes it's due to them having a lack of true knowledge and understanding when it comes to the needs of DHH students. Often times you have to educate them. It shouldn't be that way, but often times it is.

At your next IEP definitely request an FM system and make sure it's documented in the notes and/or service page. Are you happy with his morning placement? Do you feel he is benefitting from what they have to offer?

blondon704

The fm system is first on my list. Right now for the first of the year however I have all kinds of things lined up. I still want to be allowed to observe some of his class that has to be approved but I am going to keep pushing for that. And I think I am going to change audiologists... again.

... o/t but I don't know if any of you had read the other thread someone had posted about ha's itching?? Well I had posted that I kept getting phone calls from the school telling me to come get him that he was scratching at his ears and so forth. Well he has been home the past 5 days has been wearing his ha's and not shown any problem. they don't look red or irritated. Is it rude of me to think they were just looking for reasons to send him home? I don't know what else since when he has been home he has been fine. I am still going to look in to whether or not it is the color dye in the ha's just in case but I just thought that was odd.