Kitten

Hello everyone on AD. Maybe you can help me with a few problems I'm having.

I'm taking ASL Level 5 at a university (Continuing Education). I'm the only person in the class who is taking learning ASL so seriously that I practice 2 hours a day (by myself with a camera so I can watch and get depressed at my signing later). The problem is, we're not really learning ASL. We're learning SEE and I don't want to learn SEE. I've taken other classes at the university and they were in ASL. I think the problem is the instructor who, to make life easier for the other students, signs in SEE.

That leads me to the fact that only one other person in the class has the vocabulary of Level 5 and that's because she works at a school for the Deaf. Unfortunately, she also signs SEE and not ASL. Everyone else in the class uses their voices when they don't understand. By this time, they should know the signs for words like "vocabulary" and "lights", but they don't.

Also, as much as I like my instructor, we aren't really learning anything. She tells us all about her life, while interesting, does nothing to help further my knowledge of this beautiful language. Although, her 10 minute stories have assisted in my comprehension of ASL, I'm not quite sure I'll be able to go to the next level. Assignments are given and we do go over them but most of the class is spent being told about her life. It's a 2 hour class; 1 1/2 hours are my instructor's life story.

I don't want to complain to the chair of the department because I don't want anyone to lose their job, but learning ASL is so important to me that I'm taking classes elsewhere as well. That school is fine, but the university hold more weight when applying to the Interpreter Program.

What should I do?

Thanks.
Kitten

Deafness

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TWA

I can't believe voice would be allowed in an ASL class. Is the teacher Deaf? Even if she isn't Deaf, she really ought to know better than to allow talking. That is pretty much unforgivable in an ASL class, and you really should report it. Who cares about not getting her in trouble? You're not doing her or anyone in the class favors by keeping quiet about this.

Also, I assume you mean PSE (pidgin signed English), and not SEE (SEE would require more complex and tedious signing than ASL, so it would not be easier for the class). I wouldn't worry too much about this at long as you are also getting some instruction about ASL grammar and idioms. It's not right, but the voice-on thing would be much more concerning to me.

Frisky Feline

tell the truth to the teacher that you did not learn anything but in a nice way.

Kitten

You are right, it is PSE not SEE (I'm writing this at work, on the QT...)

My teacher is Deaf and I have told her that people are using their voices; I don't know if she cares. There is one girl in the class (she's in high school) who does her homework for her HS classes during my ASL class. When she's called on, she looks around, says "What?" and then asks someone next to her what just happened. There's only six people in the class. (And don't get me started with everyone chewing gum...) All the HS girl does is point to things. I always have to guess what she's talking about. I'm the only person who always shows up on time, we always start 10 minutes late... I could go on.

As for learning grammar and idioms... nope, not learning that, at least not in this class.

I'm just so frustrated because my other class (ASL Conversation) was canceled because I was the only person who signed up for it. Thank goodness for the class I take at the other school otherwise I'd be drowning.

There is a problem with a student in that class, but my instructor has told her if she doesn't stop talking, she'll be asked to leave. Period.

I just want to learn everything and I end up driving home from class frustrated and sad. My other classmates think my word order is wrong and the woman who works at the School for the Deaf has it right. When I tell them she's signing PSE, not ASL, they tell me I'm wrong.

I'm not trying to make myself sound like I'm wonderful or an expert. I just want to learn as much as I can. Time is a thief and it's slipping away for me. I hate to have my time wasted, and I feel that this class is wasting my time (to say nothing about my money!).

Most days I just want to cry. Or scream. It varies.

naisho

Since you're at level 5 now it sounds like you have a decent belt's worth of experience. Are you aiming to be an interpreter, TOD or something along there?

The anecdotes you're typing sounds like you dislike many aspects of environmental issues that can't be wholly controlled. With 2 year's worth of semesters and classes it sounds like you are proficient enough to go converse with local deafies on a daily or frequent basis, it's a given you'd learn much quicker than the pace given in class.

Kitten

Yes, I am aiming to be an interpreter. I'm just afraid I won't know enough to get into the program as there is only one here in NYC and they only take 20 students.

I am still trying to meet more Deaf people, other than the instructors at school. I've gotten quite lost trying to get to Deaf Events, but I go. I wish there were more events in NYC, but strangely, there aren't.

Since I can't get my money back for my class, I'll just keep on. Thank you all for letting me vent. Hope I wasn't too much of a pest.

TWA

I'm having a hard time believing this is a level 5 class. At that stage, only serious learners would still be in the class, and the teacher should be good at disciplining, which your teacher obviously is not.

Seems to me like you've just got a lousy teacher. I had an ASL III teacher that was similar to this a couple years ago, but not as bad. He was Deaf, but he allowed people to voice in class and we just did the same activities over and over. I complained about him to the head of the ASL department and I also wrote him a scathing evaluation at the end of the semester. It was too bad because he was nice to me, and I wanted to like him, but I had to put academic considerations first.

In contrast, my other ASL teacher would keep a very tight watch over everyone's mouths to make sure there was no talking. Same with cell phones. She kicked out several students for talking. These students were also the laziest, least proficient in the class. The dismissal was embarrassing for them, but it worked. The students didn't talk after that and they started to improve. The key for the teacher is to follow through with threats to kick out students who talk. If the rule isn't enforced, the students will lose respect for the teacher, the class, and ultimately the language.

You should bring all your concerns to the attention of appropriate individuals. Like you said, your time and money is being wasted. You have a right to complain--in fact, I would say you have an obligation to future students of this teacher to ensure that she takes steps to rectify her poor pedagogy.

sallylou

Have you considered going to another place for a program? There are a couple of good programs where I live and plenty of openings.

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echobutterfly

I'm in ASL1 and we speak because we dont know enough of the language quite yet. But sometimes he'll just say "sign this" and you'll have to sign what he tells you. Your in level 5 Kitten? Oh my that sounds very...unprofessional. Best thing i can say is skype with Deaf and other ASL students who are as serious as you. There is no better way to learn a language than be surrounded by it.

VacationGuy234

If the name of the class is ASL 5 and you are not learning what was explicitly implied by the class title, you need to at to the principle about it, it's important.

If the class is included for your certificate or degree you may still need to take it, but they cannot present a class, teach something else and charge you for it. In addition, the class may be a prereq for another class and you need to know that as well.

As far as learning about the teachers life, the ASL class I took (which was very good) did focus on the teacher signing about his life. However, I would think that was partially because it was a beginners class and one of the things I was taught about deaf culture is that they love to tell stories so it seemed to fit.

One thing, I believe, all real knowledge is good so I wouldn't write off what you are learning if it is something you might come across later in life.

P.S. talking was not allowed in my class.

purplewowies

This is ASL FIVE?!?! From your description, it sounds like the students that are halfway through ASL 1 here know more than most of those students.

If it were me, I would stand up in the middle of class and sign in as close to perfect ASL as I could muster (voice-off), how every student in that class is atrocious, they really should be better, and the class is a farce. Then if one of the incompetent students asks you what you said, sign to them that they should know, since this IS ASL 5, after all.

Of course, I probably wouldn't be brave enough to do that, but it would be what I would WANT to do.

dereksbicycles

If this is actually Level 5, then that would explain poor quality of interpreting service in many places!!

Kitten

You all make very valid points and have excellent suggestions. I will speak to the head of the program about the class not being what was advertised. There is an open house for the program next Thursday, but I'll be away and won't be able to attend. Wish I could go to the open house; I'd have quite a few things to say.

Sadly this IS ASL5. I think the other students got away with things in ASL 3-4. I was exempt from 3-4 after an evaluation of my skills and was placed in ASL 5. Maybe it's because I practice daily and spend my free time studying (even in the gym, and I've fallen off a treadmill because of it! ) but I just feel that the skill level should be higher.

I don't mind learning about my instructor's life; I've learned a bunch of new signs. And her stories have increased my receptive skills. Maybe I'm upset because there is so little back-and-forth and no lessons in grammar or idioms at all.

As I stated, this is one of the few programs in the area. There's only one Interpreter Program in the city, which I know I'm not ready for (although I would love to give it a shot in May...).

Happily, the other school where I take ASL starts on Saturday. And no voicing is allowed; actually the other students will rat you out. Also, I have volunteered to help with one of the teachers there with a project she's doing. I help her paint; she helps me sign. Win-win!

I will continue to sign as close to ASL as I can and not PSE in the university class, using directional verbs, idioms (the few I know), facial expressions (which we haven't even touched on) and vocabulary. Maybe you're right Purplewowies. Maybe I should tell the class how I think and see if they know what I'm saying. Chances are the answer would be no.

Thank you all. I give you all a big, big hug for letting me vent.

Kitten

It is a Continuing Education course. I'd like to think that this particular class is an exception to the rule. I've spoken to other level 5 students and they are much, much more advanced than the people in my class.

society's_child

This. Right. Here. I took ASL III at Gally almost 3 years ago and I didn't use my voice for the duration of the class. Our teacher (deaf) didn't permit it and none of us had any problem with it, whatsoever.

The teacher is lax and the OP is paying the price.

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Reba

Just some observations:

This is the difference between continuing ed ASL classes and college credit ASL classes--accountability.

Were the previous levels taught the same way? If so, why complain now?

It's normal for ASL instructors to incorporate their life stories in the course. That's how hearing students learn about Deaf culture and the Deaf experience.

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rebeccalj

Yeah, and do in ASL. See if she understand.

Jazzberry

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I was a mainstreamed "solitaire". I'm currently learning ASL. My hearing loss ranges from moderate to profound; my audiogram and speech discrimination are posted here.

Kitten

Just thought I'd give you all a follow-up.

The high school girl in my University class who knows nothing and does her HS homework will not be going on to the next level. The instructor isn't going to pass her. I am annoyed that she got to this level because the other instructors thought she was cute. I am not kidding. When I asked another instructor why he passed her, he said because she was cute. And here I am busting my butt and all I had to do was be cute and 15??

Anyway my other school started classes and the woman who talked is in my new class there too. The owner of the school told her NOT to go to the next level, so she paid for level 4 and attends level 6. She still can't sign, but she is slightly better than a woman who was at a Deaf Event I attended. She voiced all the time. She was in level 4 at a school I was interested in, but is too far away from my home and she couldn't fingerspell at all. All she did was voice and complain. I had to walk away because I was about to scream.

I know the University classes are Continuing Ed and I shouldn't have such high expectations. However, I expect people to work because I work so hard. I don't expect anyone to practice everyday, but it would be nice if they did. And paid attention in class. And stopped talking. And learned to fingerspell.

Maybe I AM expecting too much... from them. From me? I expect more. I don't want to be one of those bad terps Dereksbicycles mentioned.

Reba

You're stuck in a really horrendous situation. I don't know what to say other than keep looking for a better class, complain to whomever is in charge of continuing ed, focus on what you do and try to ignore what others do or don't do.

No, you're not expecting too much.

If you want to go on to an ITP, you'll have to find better ASL training. That means, better formal courses, and more real life exposure and practice. Keep watching DVD's and youtubes that are recommended by our trusted AD members to see better examples of ASL. You want to be adequately prepared for ITP.

Reba

Have you joined your local chapters of RID and NAD? They often provide training opportunities and networking.

Kitten

I haven't joined yet; was waiting until after the holidays. Or at least until payday. Next week, I'll be attending my first NYCBDA meeting (NYC Black Deaf Advocates). Looking forward to it.

What I find even sadder than the two from school was the woman at the Deaf Event who was in level 4 at another school and couldn't sign at all. They have a terp program there too and I can just imagine what it's like. Maybe she was the exception to the rule.

Thanks!

DeafCaroline

worry about yourself and how you are doing in the class - you can't control how other people behave or study so forget about them.

In my ASL class, we get deductions from our grades if we use our voice and our teacher is very strict about that.

Kitten

To everyone who has responded....
You guys are the best!

Smithtr

sorry i adjust for experience lots of study PSE and ASL I am translate ASL and ESL! I am very support ASL and ESL I am offer ASL and ESL Dont worry i edit PSL and I expect for you I suggest to you best work for you improve you!I think structure missing to English issues! I think ESL is very full , I Notice on ASL is very structure!

ASL : what doing you (simply short)

ESL : what are doing you (full exmaple)

I am example study lots of reading more language

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Mountain Man

I'm not sure how continuing education courses work, but many colleges and universities have an anonymous evaluation form for students to fill out at the end of the quarter/semester.

Kitten

I have another update:

Last night was my last class (this level anyway) and I was told that the same teacher will be teaching level 6.

But it gets worse. The school needs 4 people to hold a class. Without the HS student, we only have 3. Miss HS Student gladly waved her hand and announced (voiced) that she would be taking level 6 Two other students just laughed. However, if the class is changed to a different day, Miss HS Student can't make it as she has another class she's probably doing poorly in. We would have the necessary 4 because another student will be joining us.

Usually, there is an evaluation form to fill out, but my teacher didn't give them out. Wonder if she knew we'd all say we didn't learn anything, because we didn't. I hope there's a lesson plan for the next level. I just want to learn as much as I can; I am paying for it.

I was hoping to apply to the Interp Program in May, but after this class, I don't think I'm ready.

Someone pass the bottle, mama needs a cocktail.

Jazzberry

Wow, I'm really surprised that NYC has so few options. What about contacting the Deaf owned interpreting service in NYC and see if they can hook you up with a Deaf tutor instead?

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I was a mainstreamed "solitaire". I'm currently learning ASL. My hearing loss ranges from moderate to profound; my audiogram and speech discrimination are posted here.

Kitten

Two cosmopolitans and one figure skating session later and I'm feeling much better now.

Thank you everyone for the suggestions. Jazzberry, I too am surprised at the limited resources in NYC. It's New York City; you'd think there would be more choices. Westchester and upstate NY have more choices, but I live in the city and I'd rather not move right now.

I only have two more levels of ASL classes (goes up to 7) and four more electives and I obtain my certificate. Thank goodness for the other school I'm attending, otherwise I'd be totally lost.

Thanks again!

Mountain Man

I suppose you could take it up with your department head, but that could have its own problems -- for instance if the instructor presents herself as an expert in ASL and the department head doesn't know any better, it might be perceived as an attack on a qualified staff member.

Dunno what to tell you. It's a tough situation.