jillio

I think you making coffee would be far less tedious and boring.

Deafness

__________________
This advertising will not be shown in this way to registered members.
Register your free account today and become a member on AllDeaf.com

posts from hell

If even 5.

Oceanbreeze

Shiii... You'd lose me!

__________________
"There comes a time in your life, when you walk away from all the drama and people who create it. You surround yourself with people who make you laugh. Forget the bad, and focus on the good. Love the people who treat you right, pray for the ones who don't. Life is too short to be anything but happy. Falling down is a part of life, getting back up is living."

deafskeptic

Lol yep.

__________________
Left ear implanted with Med-El on April 24 2007.
Activated on May 9th.
Upgraded to Opus 2 9/10/2010
Think Pink.
FREE JILLIO!

Jiro

that is wonderful that whatever the tool you used to help him achieved the proficiency in English.

But... it's funny that you stated that it is sad for people to shut down something that can be an effective tool for teaching English. Don't you think you are shutting down too? Don't you realize that majority of ADers here who replied to your thread do know SEE? They're telling you from firsthand experience that SEE does not work as good as you think. Your son will go down exactly same path as ADers and he will soon denounce TC/SEE.

__________________
- Don't forget to buy Jiro's Special Edition Sunglasses for $19.95

Reba

Are you saying that he signs ASL fluently, expressively and receptively, with Deaf ASL signers?

deafbajagal

Just sign my name to this. I couldn't have said it any better.

CSign

It has always been my intention to transition to ASL after his foundation in the English language was established.
In terms of past tense, where appropriate you w

CSign

Woops, pressed wrong button.
Depending on the word you would either add the "d" ending, or a small movement palm backwards towards your body.
"The" can be signed two different ways, I prefer palm in "t" twisting out.
In terms of his ability to sign expressively in ASL, we are w

deafbajagal

Many people point out to me that there's no way to indicate "past tense" such as in verbs when using ASL. Actually you can...by using signing space, mouth movement, and using the orientation of your hands to indicate. In a true bi-bi classroom, the teacher (in this case, me) would model both languages to the students.

Now when I sign a verb, my students (from two months of practice) can tell you which ending to add to the verb (if it's a regular verb)...-ed, -s/-es/-ies, or -ing. How? They now are more aware of the elements of ASL.

I need to learn how to upload a video on here, and I'll be happy to show you.

I will say this...I DO use S.E.E. for specific lessons in the classroom, but always accompanied with ASL. And I do share your view, but in a different way. If I had a deaf child, she would use Cued Speech in conjunction with ASL. Cued Speech was designed to teach literacy (especially those little -ed and -ing stuff) while supporting ASL users. Many people are quick to disregard Cued Speech. From what I've read and seen, I'm shocked it isn't popular...especially in the bi-bi education classroom.

CSign

Working on That. However, he can make himself understood to those that use ASL. Receptively he understands most of what's said in ASL, and if he misses something he will usually ask for clarification.
In terms of what your Avatar says PFH, you've got me! I've tried to figure that out for some time and I can't. I must say though, that is not slower than how people speak ;-)
Jiro, I don't see how I've shut anything down. As I stated in the OP, I place high value on ASL. I have always intended on switching to ASL as he got older. I understand it's value and effectiveness. My goal was to communicate, and provide my son with complete access to language and communication. That has been achieved through TC and SEE.

Sorry about the incomplete posts, new phone and getting used to this forum.

CSign

To reiterate, I am not disagreeing that SEE in and of itself is not a "language." maybe I should have titled the thread differently. However, English is a language which I value just as I value ASL as a language. I have been well aware that SEE is MCE, just don't understand why it seems people here seem to dislike English. I'm trying to bridge the gap. Both are valuable and both serve a purpose.

Beowulf

I knew someone who had personalized car plates that read "KELLY THE" because of her fascination with the latter word in SEE.

deafbajagal

I'm thrilled he knows how to ask for clarification...many deaf kids don't have that skill, and that is a big factor in language delays for them.

It sounds like he is allowed to socialize with other deaf people...that's GREAT!!! It's really crucial he has that exposure.

deafbajagal

I am curious, though...why is it not possible for him to learn both languages at the same time? Have you considered using the bilingual approach with him? I'm a teacher at a residential school for the deaf, and I'm using the bilingual approach in some of my classes...

GrendelQ

My family doesn't use SEE conversationally--except that we approximate it when reading books aloud and encouraging reading and want to match sign for written word. Our preference is that our child have fluent grasp of two different languages: English and ASL, and as many modes as possible. I'm intrigued by the description of SEE as a mode of English.

A couple of questions:
If someone is expert in signed English, would he or she be considered fluent in English, just as is someone expert in another mode, such as written English or spoken English? If not, why would a signed mode not "count" just as a written code would? If so, why would you say that having expertise in this mode (signed English) is not considered knowing a language? Just as knowing the written code for English is considered knowing a language, isn't knowing the signed code also knowing a language, where only the form differs?

__________________

posts from hell

Well. It is only "Pain in the ass" and is 1.6 seconds long. Normally people speak 120-150 words a minute - thus translating into 2-2.5 words per second.

That is how fast spoken English is if you had to spell it out. Thus my point is, SEE/Rochester method is never as fast as spoken English. Which reinforces the fact we have this great doubt that you are signing SEE as fast as you're speaking.

Reba

Maybe she speaks slowly, like Al Gore.

jillio

Then he isn't doing the code switching. The signers that are communicating with him are doing the code switching.

Why when he gets older? It has been shown through volumes of research that ASL facilitates the learning of another language.

deafbajagal

He is only considered fluent in English if he can write English fluently.
Written English is a language. Signed English is only a representation of the language. Personally I would consider a fluent signer in M.C.E to be fluent in English, but according to the linguistics field, they do not recognize M.C.E. of any form to be a language, thus using that system would not 'count.' M.C.E does not meet all of the criteria of what makes a language a language.

jillio

I don't know. My husband was from TN., and he spoke so slowly I wanted to finish his sentences. And he still couldn't speak slowly enough to coordinate speech with SEE.

jillio

When my son was small, I used some Signed English books put out by Gally. Popular kids stories. He used them, but if you tested him for comprehension afterward, he always re-told the story in ASL. So even with the presentation, kids often are interpreting in their head. In my experience, anyway.

Beowulf

In front of large groups, I used to sign and speak at the same time. For many reasons, I quit doing that. I MUST have my speech interpreted in that situtation. That is also why I quit standup comedy: it is impossible to match my words' meanings and nuances to the signs, etcetera.

GrendelQ

Written English is a mode. Spoken English is a mode. Signed English is a mode. You are literate if you can read and write. You are fluent if you can speak/comprehend OR read/write. Wouldn't fluency apply to all 3 modes?

__________________

jillio

No one in here dislikes English. What gives you that impression? We simply don't see the need to re-invent the wheel. You have English in all it's forms, and you have ASL, which has evolved to address the communication needs of a deaf population. Why re-invent something that already works just to try and make it appear closer to a different language that evolved to adress the needs of the hearing?

jillio

Exactly. In any language there are concepts and nuances which cannot be literally translated. I always use the following example:

Sign **my nose is running** in an MCE and visually it is processed as if the nose has gotten down off the face and is running across the room. Sign the same thing in ASL, and there is no mistake what is being communicated.

CSign

You're funny Reba ;-) actually I don't speak slowly, I speak and sign at a natural pace. Being a hearing person with no experience with sign language when my child was born, I had to make a choice. Stumble through ASL and not provide a complete and good language model, or use SEE to support the language I already knew. I was proficient in English, and I had familiarized myself with the linguistic ramifications of being DHH. I wanted to provide him with clear access to language, and I wanted him to obtain a mastery if English which is expected of those going to school in the U.S. I also knew it would be easier for me to learn SEE rather than ASL since I was already proficient. I want to be clear though, I didn't take the easy way out. I attended classes, skillshops, and practiced everyday. I made the effort, just as I am continuing in my efforts to become fluent in ASL. It comes down to bring able to provide a clear and accurate language model, and I knew I would be most effective doing that through SEE. I would have been a poor ASL model for him in the beginning, however I could be a great model for him with English. I love reading, I love writing... I wanted my son to be able to appreciate the same thing. I wanted my son to go to college and be able to read the text books with a clear understanding of what's written on the page. I love English, and all the words that make up the language.
In terms of waiting until he was older, I wanted him to have a solid base in English so he could obtain all these things. As I mentioned before, there are different ways to achieve the same end. This was the road I chose, and I don't regret it for a second. ;-) I must say that our public education system does not really support much of anything when it comes to educating DHH children, nor supporting the families. That is a for a different thread though...

CSign

Jillio, I've heard that example before. What I take issue with is that implies a DHH child lacks the ability to comprehend that one word can have multiple meanings. Hearing children get it, why wouldn't deaf children? They are able to understand if you take the time to explain to them the differences. With SEE, you would use modification/and or placement to convey the sentence. You would sign, "my nose is running" and the running would come from your nose. I know that DHH children can grasp the difference if someone initially takes the time to explain it to them. I don't usually need to tell my son more than once or twice before he gets it. Just like "right" is another word for correct, or it can be turning right. Depending on the context of the sentence, and the placement of the sign understanding us achieved.

jillio

Same here. My son is now a grad student in psychology...and he, myself, and his professors credit ASL with his successes.

The question to be asked is not what is easier for the parent, but what is in the best interest of the child.

jillio

Who said that a deaf child has an inability to understand that a word has different meanings? I am talking about cognitive processing functions. If you are using ASL, you don't need to take the added time to explain it in detail. The explanation is contained in the language. It would intrepret into the same English sentence. That is how the child learns contextual meaning. For a child to acquire language appropriately...the only way they will achieve fluency and transfer the skills to learning another language is to have unimpeded access. If you have to continually explain and clarify, you are impeding the natural acquisition process.