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Unread 11-27-2009, 08:06 AM   #211 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jillio View Post
I agree with what you are saying to a great extent. But I can't deny that the credibility of the deaf person is often discounted simply because they are deaf. I have watched, for over 20 years now how a deaf person can relate their experience, and they are treated as if they have no clue, but let a hearing person repeat it, and it is believed all of a sudden. In fact, I have seen it happen so many times, that I now use it to an advantage. I will ask the deaf for their input, and when I am sure that I have it correct, I willsimply voice it for them, knowing that I will be considered more credible simply because I am hearing. It pisses me off, but the only thing I can do about it is turn the tables and use it to advocate for the deaf in the way they want to be advocated for. If I am unsure of something, I will go directly to the deaf to make sure that I am representing them properly. Then I use the situation to give a voice to what they have told me. It is all part of my "nothing for us without us" philosophy. And all the while, the people who won't listen to the deaf are actually being made to listen to them. I'm sure you have seen me do that right here on this forum more than once, lol.
Hearing people who discount deaf people's experiences and then turn around to believe other hearing people about the same thing do not get my respect at all. I usually end up cutting them out of my life. I dont need people like that in my life.
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Unread 11-27-2009, 07:49 PM   #212 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Lighthouse77 View Post
It take a hearing person to correct another hearing person. Rarely they ever listen to deaf people if we tell them that it isn't always true.
I don't think it's necessarily a hearing/Deaf thing. Some people just don't like being told they're wrong no matter who it's coming from.
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Unread 11-27-2009, 08:00 PM   #213 (permalink)
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that's true too but I was referring to those who refuse to listen to us, but when a hearing person pop in and speak the same thing... they are like "yeah, you're right"
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Unread 11-27-2009, 08:09 PM   #214 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
I don't think it's necessarily a hearing/Deaf thing. Some people just don't like being told they're wrong no matter who it's coming from.
Said Mountain Man, neatly proving the point in question.
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Unread 11-27-2009, 08:11 PM   #215 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
I don't think it's necessarily a hearing/Deaf thing. Some people just don't like being told they're wrong no matter who it's coming from.
I wish it was true in my experience but growing up, I was always told I was wrong by hearing people but when other hearing people tell them the same thing I say, they believe them. Like one example..I told my dad that the measurements for a curtain rod were wrong and he told me that I didnt know anything and then my hearing cousin who was a year younger than me told him the same thing and then my dad went and measured to double check. Turned out that I was right but he patted my cousin's back praising him for catching the measurement error.

That is what Lighthouse is most likely referring to.
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Unread 11-27-2009, 08:16 PM   #216 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by shel90 View Post
I wish it was true in my experience but growing up, I was always told I was wrong by hearing people but when other hearing people tell them the same thing I say, they believe them. Like one example..I told my dad that the measurements for a curtain rod were wrong and he told me that I didnt know anything and then my hearing cousin who was a year younger than me told him the same thing and then my dad went and measured to double check. Turned out that I was right but he patted my cousin's back praising him for catching the measurement error.

That is what Lighthouse is most likely referring to.

In this situation, I can't tell if it is a man thing where a man doesn't want to listen to a woman (which is very common) ... or Hearing doesn't want to listen to a deaf.
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Unread 11-27-2009, 08:26 PM   #217 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Bottesini View Post
Said Mountain Man, neatly proving the point in question.
I said that it wasn't necessarily the case, not that it was never the case.
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Unread 11-27-2009, 08:32 PM   #218 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Lighthouse77 View Post
that's true too but I was referring to those who refuse to listen to us, but when a hearing person pop in and speak the same thing... they are like "yeah, you're right"
That's unfortunate. I've not encountered that kind of thing personally, but perhaps it's because most of my interactions with Deaf are as a minority, so I'm the odd man out and they have to take time to carefully explain things to me thanks to my less than stellar but slowly improving receptive skills.
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Unread 11-27-2009, 08:33 PM   #219 (permalink)
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I said that it wasn't necessarily the case, not that it was never the case.
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Unread 11-29-2009, 10:05 AM   #220 (permalink)
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I agree with what you are saying to a great extent. But I can't deny that the credibility of the deaf person is often discounted simply because they are deaf. I have watched, for over 20 years now how a deaf person can relate their experience, and they are treated as if they have no clue, but let a hearing person repeat it, and it is believed all of a sudden. In fact, I have seen it happen so many times, that I now use it to an advantage. I will ask the deaf for their input, and when I am sure that I have it correct, I willsimply voice it for them, knowing that I will be considered more credible simply because I am hearing. It pisses me off, but the only thing I can do about it is turn the tables and use it to advocate for the deaf in the way they want to be advocated for. If I am unsure of something, I will go directly to the deaf to make sure that I am representing them properly. Then I use the situation to give a voice to what they have told me. It is all part of my "nothing for us without us" philosophy. And all the while, the people who won't listen to the deaf are actually being made to listen to them. I'm sure you have seen me do that right here on this forum more than once, lol.
I do understand what you are saying and it's not that I don't agree to some extent. My problem is that I am a bit cynical due to personal experiences and how people are. I apply reluctance to believe something to hearing people as well. It is part of who I am and part of how I learn. I am an equal opportunity skeptic. I think it is wrong for me or anyone to just believe what somebody says without further investigation and getting opinions from others. For me, it's not only part of how I learn but it's also how I make sure I am getting a balanced view.

We know in the deaf community there are far left to far right and everything in between just as there are in many walks of life. I have been here and other places long enough to where I am fairly confident that I understand the perspectives from a variety of deaf folks. It bothers me when someone comes down on me for trying to learn with the "how dare you question a deaf person" attitude. Just because somebody says something doesn't mean it's true or doesn't mean it's the experience or viewpoint of the majority. I simply can't take the opinions or experiences of a few as gospel. Especially when other deaf people don't share those views and experiences.

The deaf social which I thought was yesterday was actually the previous Saturday. They hold them on the third Sat of each month so I will be attending the one in December. Meanwhile I will be brushing up on certian ASL phrases to hopefully get me through without having to speak or write stuff down. That means I will be doing alot of observing and not so much conversing and will no doubt miss out on a lot. I know... welcome to the deaf world... right? I will be interested in how this goes and am looking forward to it.
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Unread 11-29-2009, 05:01 PM   #221 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by rockdrummer View Post
I do understand what you are saying and it's not that I don't agree to some extent. My problem is that I am a bit cynical due to personal experiences and how people are. I apply reluctance to believe something to hearing people as well. It is part of who I am and part of how I learn. I am an equal opportunity skeptic. I think it is wrong for me or anyone to just believe what somebody says without further investigation and getting opinions from others. For me, it's not only part of how I learn but it's also how I make sure I am getting a balanced view.

We know in the deaf community there are far left to far right and everything in between just as there are in many walks of life. I have been here and other places long enough to where I am fairly confident that I understand the perspectives from a variety of deaf folks. It bothers me when someone comes down on me for trying to learn with the "how dare you question a deaf person" attitude. Just because somebody says something doesn't mean it's true or doesn't mean it's the experience or viewpoint of the majority. I simply can't take the opinions or experiences of a few as gospel. Especially when other deaf people don't share those views and experiences.

The deaf social which I thought was yesterday was actually the previous Saturday. They hold them on the third Sat of each month so I will be attending the one in December. Meanwhile I will be brushing up on certian ASL phrases to hopefully get me through without having to speak or write stuff down. That means I will be doing alot of observing and not so much conversing and will no doubt miss out on a lot. I know... welcome to the deaf world... right? I will be interested in how this goes and am looking forward to it.
I understand perfectly, and actually agree with what you are saying 100%. One must always strive for balance. The problem to date has been (not you, but society in general) the view has been overbalanced per the hearing viewpoint. That makes it more difficult to achieve actual balance in getting people to accept that the deaf know what is best for them.

Sorry you missed this month's social, but hey..next month is not that far off! I can't tell you how happy it makes me to see you so insistent on reaching out.
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Unread 12-05-2009, 08:49 PM   #222 (permalink)
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That means I will be doing alot of observing and not so much conversing and will no doubt miss out on a lot. I know... welcome to the deaf world... right?
More like welcome to a hearing person in the Deaf world. I don't think Deaf people miss much of anything. I've found them to be exceptionally observant for what I think are obvious reasons.
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Unread 12-08-2009, 12:00 AM   #223 (permalink)
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Thats a good point, I am guilty of talking to hearing people and not signing what I say. However, I must admit sometimes I am torn, my reason why for whatever reason people come to deaf events who are hearing who know little to no sign. I can't understand it, my signing is anything but perfect. Now that I am getting better I try to sign what hearing people are saying if they aren't signing. This is a very good point, i have brought a hearing person to a deaf event knew no sign he still did well in understanding. The pastor from a deaf church was there really smart guy signed so my friend understood. Tell the people you are new and a hearing student some will accept that some may not! If you must speak tho sign, I learned this one the hard way at first, lost some peoples respect due to them meeting me when I was first learning and not knowledgeable on the do's and do nots.
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Unread 12-08-2009, 12:15 PM   #224 (permalink)
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More like welcome to a hearing person in the Deaf world. I don't think Deaf people miss much of anything. I've found them to be exceptionally observant for what I think are obvious reasons.
What I mean is when a deaf person is amongst hearing people. I see countless posts from deaf people that are saying they don't catch everything either becasue someone is speaking to fast, not facing them or their speechreading skills are not that great. In my case, I am not proficient in ASL so even though I will be able to see what is going on, I won't be able to follow it. Just like a deaf person trying to foloow a conversation in a room of hearing people that are speaking English.

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Unread 12-20-2009, 02:45 PM   #225 (permalink)
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Ah, I understand. Good point.
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Unread 12-21-2009, 07:20 AM   #226 (permalink)
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I think the most important thing the ASL student should remember is that he is a guest at the deaf event; therefore, should behave as a guest.
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Unread 12-21-2009, 09:36 AM   #227 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jillio View Post
I agree with what you are saying to a great extent. But I can't deny that the credibility of the deaf person is often discounted simply because they are deaf. I have watched, for over 20 years now how a deaf person can relate their experience, and they are treated as if they have no clue, but let a hearing person repeat it, and it is believed all of a sudden. In fact, I have seen it happen so many times, that I now use it to an advantage. I will ask the deaf for their input, and when I am sure that I have it correct, I willsimply voice it for them, knowing that I will be considered more credible simply because I am hearing. It pisses me off, but the only thing I can do about it is turn the tables and use it to advocate for the deaf in the way they want to be advocated for. If I am unsure of something, I will go directly to the deaf to make sure that I am representing them properly. Then I use the situation to give a voice to what they have told me. It is all part of my "nothing for us without us" philosophy. And all the while, the people who won't listen to the deaf are actually being made to listen to them. I'm sure you have seen me do that right here on this forum more than once, lol.
That is due to the hearing person thinking that they are superior to deaf people and time for them to get an ego check or just stay away from deaf people.
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Unread 12-21-2009, 10:50 AM   #228 (permalink)
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That is due to the hearing person thinking that they are superior to deaf people and time for them to get an ego check or just stay away from deaf people.
They should just meet me! I will set them straight!!
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Unread 12-21-2009, 09:21 PM   #229 (permalink)
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They should just meet me! I will set them straight!!
You go Botts!! Get the cane ready for warfare.....er.. um......instruction.
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Unread 12-21-2009, 09:40 PM   #230 (permalink)
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You go Botts!! Get the cane ready for warfare.....er.. um......instruction.
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Unread 01-04-2010, 12:14 AM   #231 (permalink)
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Simply put this is a no no, I think five pages of this forum later. Got that idea across, although I do admire the fact that you went to a deaf event, I have only gone to religious ones and ones with a deaf or hoh friend. I'm actually scared to go to a real deaf event due to my signing and because i am hearing.
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Unread 01-04-2010, 07:23 AM   #232 (permalink)
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Simply put this is a no no, I think five pages of this forum later. Got that idea across, although I do admire the fact that you went to a deaf event, I have only gone to religious ones and ones with a deaf or hoh friend. I'm actually scared to go to a real deaf event due to my signing and because i am hearing.
don't be scared!
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Unread 01-04-2010, 02:05 PM   #233 (permalink)
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Simply put this is a no no, I think five pages of this forum later. Got that idea across, although I do admire the fact that you went to a deaf event, I have only gone to religious ones and ones with a deaf or hoh friend. I'm actually scared to go to a real deaf event due to my signing and because i am hearing.
I guess I am lucky in the fact that even though in my local deaf club, none of them speak, they are happy to allow new members and visitors to speak as long as we try to sign as we learn and they will help us learn. They also suggest keeping paper and pencil available. They said a pencil is better than pen as if you make a mistake, you can erase and so they provide the paper and mechanical pencils or those ones where you can pull the used lead tip out and insert it in the bottom and the new one comes out and ready to use. They provide them if you don't have anything with you.

I was very scared to go to the deaf club since I lost my hearing and I son't know much (50 words) in ASL. I still have a problem with ASL grammar and my deaf club said they will help. Most of the people in my deaf club are older and either have already retired or had to go back to work due to the economy. They want to get "fresh blood" in so the the club can keep going, so they are willing to help us newbies.
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Unread 02-25-2010, 12:27 AM   #234 (permalink)
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Yeah, you should try to just sign. I'm not sure (bc i'm hearing) but I think as long as you are making an effort to communicate than it's okay if you mouth words occassionally bc. it's a habit and it may even aid in helping people to read your signs if you aren't completely accurate. BUT I would try to avoid it as much as possible, and you will definitely learn faster. Mouthing words is like a crutch. If you don't understand something find other ways to explain it or ask someone what the sign is.

I once had a boyfriend who's mom spoke chinese and I liked her but I really hated eating with their family because although they invited to dinner they all spoke in chinese and I felt so left out. I was also mind boggled as to why they even bothered to invite me if they weren't going to make an effort to speak to me. In contrast, I have a friend who's chinese and his parents invite me over for dinner and although I can barely understand them they try so hard to talk to me and I have a super close bond with them because of it.

I know it can be sort of scary to sign and not talk when you're new to it, but people who use sign as a language will respect you so much more for it and they are not going to be upset if you dont get ever sign right.

Good luck =)
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