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Unread 11-25-2009, 01:51 PM   #121 (permalink)
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I agree. I told people with my baby sign that "My daughter (is) deaf. We (are)hearing. We (are) learning sign." They will help you out. You might even want to bring the little one. Deaf people LOVE deaf kids!
Yeah I would like to but this social is held at a bar/night club. They will not allow my son in there.
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Unread 11-25-2009, 01:53 PM   #122 (permalink)
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I don't agree that "double standard" carries negative connotations, or means hypocricy or injustice. To me a double standard is
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a set of principles that applies differently and usually more rigorously to one group of people or circumstances than to another
You've also criticized the Deaf perspective as "unfair" which shows that you view the issue from a perspective other than the sanitized definition of "double standard" you've provided above.

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But I am willing to agree to disagree on that and will use your term of cultural differences.
It's not "my" term, it is an objectively more accurate way of describing the disconnect between your perspective and that of the Deaf culture.

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Since I am not a fluent signer I would have to fall back on English and spoken language in order to communicate. I'm sorry but I don't think its fair for anyone to feel offended if I have to rely on my voice. And I don't think it's fair for deaf folks at deaf events to not accept me and not let me use my voice when I am not fluent in ASL.
Again you complain that it's unfair. Like I've said already, it's not an issue of fairness but simply differing cultural perspectives. It's all in how you look at the situation, and my impression is you're coming into this with a negative mindset.

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To take that a step further I think it is wrong to deprive anyone of using their natural language to communicate when they need to.
And nobody is advocating that. What we are saying, and what has been said several times already, is that you can use your voice, just make sure you sign at the same time. You'll make a much better impression at social gatherings if you at least try to sign rather than "clam up" and start using your voice exclusively.
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Unread 11-25-2009, 01:53 PM   #123 (permalink)
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Yeah I would like to but this social is held at a bar/night club. They will not allow my son in there.
Ah, well, nevermind then!
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Unread 11-25-2009, 01:54 PM   #124 (permalink)
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I agree. I told people with my baby sign that "My daughter (is) deaf. We (are)hearing. We (are) learning sign." They will help you out. You might even want to bring the little one. Deaf people LOVE deaf kids!
I know Deaf people that even love hearing kids. The point is respecting the culture you are attempting to boach.
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Unread 11-25-2009, 01:55 PM   #125 (permalink)
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Thanks FJ. And despite what Mountian man says I don't believe that the few people that have responded to my posts negativly represent the majority in the deaf community. At least I hope they don't. I do respect their opinions and positions but it doesn't mean I have to agree with them.
For the record, I am hearing.
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Unread 11-25-2009, 01:56 PM   #126 (permalink)
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Yeah I would like to but this social is held at a bar/night club. They will not allow my son in there.
Still a good place for you to develop life long friendships with Deaf individuals. While exposing my son to Deaf culture was a priority, it would never have worked had I not been willing to make that Culture a part of my life, as well. My son and I share some friendships with some Deaf people, but we both also have friendships with Deaf people that are completely our own. It is an enriching experience.
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Unread 11-25-2009, 01:58 PM   #127 (permalink)
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I know Deaf people that even love hearing kids. The point is respecting the culture you are attempting to boach.
I meant that since 90% of deaf kids are born to hearing parents, Deaf people rarely get the chance to see and interact with and play with little deaf kids.
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Unread 11-25-2009, 01:59 PM   #128 (permalink)
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I say attend the event, tell them you are the father of a deaf son, and would like to learn more about what it is to grow up as a deaf child, and what his needs are from a deaf perspective. It worked for me over 20 years ago, and I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work for you now.

The OP asked if he needed to sign if he was talking to a hearing friend, so that could be interpreted as refusing to sign. Even if he is talking to a hearing friend, he needs to be using what sign he knows. To do otherwise is exclusion.
good advice. If the intent is not to refuse to sign and someone takes it that way then they have misinterpreted the person as refusing to sign when in fact that is not the case. It's why I never make assumptions. I know not everyone is like me but if I was ever in doubt I would simply ask. Why are you speaking instead of signing. And if it offended me I would add that it offends me and then let the person explain their position. Again that is just me and I know not everyone is like me.
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Unread 11-25-2009, 02:02 PM   #129 (permalink)
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I meant that since 90% of deaf kids are born to hearing parents, Deaf people rarely get the chance to see and interact with and play with little deaf kids.
more the reason why you shouldn't go to deaf events to have a spoken conversation with each other.Because more likely majority of them ARE hearing. If one person thinks it is ok, then everyone would do it.
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Unread 11-25-2009, 02:04 PM   #130 (permalink)
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Just go easy on your comments toward to whoever's posts you disagree with. They are here to understand better about the deaf culture because they don't raise in the deaf culture but they have someone who are deaf who are close to them.
I just have little patience for people who receive an explanation and then keep asking, "But why?" over and over again. But you're right, I might have come down a little hard on him.
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Unread 11-25-2009, 02:05 PM   #131 (permalink)
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I meant that since 90% of deaf kids are born to hearing parents, Deaf people rarely get the chance to see and interact with and play with little deaf kids.
What?
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Unread 11-25-2009, 02:08 PM   #132 (permalink)
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good advice. If the intent is not to refuse to sign and someone takes it that way then they have misinterpreted the person as refusing to sign when in fact that is not the case. It's why I never make assumptions. I know not everyone is like me but if I was ever in doubt I would simply ask. Why are you speaking instead of signing. And if it offended me I would add that it offends me and then let the person explain their position. Again that is just me and I know not everyone is like me.
Asking is always the best way to go, as long as you are willing to accept the answer you get.
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Unread 11-25-2009, 02:22 PM   #133 (permalink)
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Asking is always the best way to go, as long as you are willing to accept the answer you get.
Honesty is the best policy.
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Unread 11-25-2009, 02:23 PM   #134 (permalink)
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What?
You made a snide remark about Deaf people also liking hearing children, so I explained what I meant further. Since the vast majority of deaf children are not a part of the Deaf community, it has been my experience that Deaf adults (especially older adults) are very excited to get the opportunity to play with little deaf kids.
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Unread 11-25-2009, 02:24 PM   #135 (permalink)
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I just have little patience for people who receive an explanation and then keep asking, "But why?" over and over again. But you're right, I might have come down a little hard on him.
Perhaps we have got off on the wrong foot. I do think you have the wrong impression of me though. I am truly here to learn.
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Unread 11-25-2009, 02:27 PM   #136 (permalink)
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asking is always the best way to go, as long as you are willing to accept the answer you get.
Exactly.
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Unread 11-25-2009, 02:29 PM   #137 (permalink)
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I just have little patience for people who receive an explanation and then keep asking, "But why?" over and over again. But you're right, I might have come down a little hard on him.
that's no problem.
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Unread 11-25-2009, 02:30 PM   #138 (permalink)
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You made a snide remark about Deaf people also liking hearing children, so I explained what I meant further. Since the vast majority of deaf children are not a part of the Deaf community, it has been my experience that Deaf adults (especially older adults) are very excited to get the opportunity to play with little deaf kids.
I may have miss your point. what do you mean by that?
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Unread 11-25-2009, 02:34 PM   #139 (permalink)
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I may have miss your point. what do you mean by that?
I don't kow how to be more clear. Greater than 90% of deaf children are born to hearing parents. A huge percentage (some argue as high as 95%) of them are not involved in the Deaf community as children. Therefore, having young deaf children in the Deaf community is fairly rare.
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Unread 11-25-2009, 02:35 PM   #140 (permalink)
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or fair to your child.

They say they want us and our children to feel welcome and a part of the Deaf community, but if they attack you for your native language, how can you feel included?

In real life, I have never had a Deaf person be rude to my husband for speaking to me at a Deaf event. I am able to communicate everything I need to in sign now (and he does ok) but he is far from comfortable. Our Deaf community is happy that he is there and they are very welcoming and helpful. They will voice for him, or fingerspell, or read his lips. They are so happy that he is there, and signing, and that our daughter is a part of the Deaf community, that they help us out as much as they can.

Not the same as here.....
Nobody is being rude to you. Just disagreeing...BTW, I think Mountain Man is a hearing parent of a deaf child just like u and RD are.
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Unread 11-25-2009, 02:35 PM   #141 (permalink)
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Honesty is the best policy.
We are just full of little nuggets of wisdom today, aren't we? Must be the holidays.
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Unread 11-25-2009, 02:37 PM   #142 (permalink)
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Perhaps we have got off on the wrong foot. I do think you have the wrong impression of me though. I am truly here to learn.
I believe you are since this isn't a website for casual chatters. Most people here have a reason to be here. I would just be careful about describing a cultural perspective as "unfair". After all, it's not like anybody's human rights are being violated.
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Unread 11-25-2009, 02:38 PM   #143 (permalink)
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You made a snide remark about Deaf people also liking hearing children, so I explained what I meant further. Since the vast majority of deaf children are not a part of the Deaf community, it has been my experience that Deaf adults (especially older adults) are very excited to get the opportunity to play with little deaf kids.
My remark was not snide. It was true. Perhaps more true than your assessment that Deaf people just love little deaf kids. Some Deaf people like kids, period. Some don't want to be bothered with them at all, whether they are deaf or hearing kids. You are reinforcing commonly held hearing misperceptions, and that needs to be corrected.
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Unread 11-25-2009, 02:39 PM   #144 (permalink)
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We are just full of little nuggets of wisdom today, aren't we? Must be the holidays.
Yeah, I am hoping to get the turkey nuggets at Thanksgiving dinner this year.
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Unread 11-25-2009, 02:39 PM   #145 (permalink)
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I don't kow how to be more clear. Greater than 90% of deaf children are born to hearing parents. A huge percentage (some argue as high as 95%) of them are not involved in the Deaf community as children. Therefore, having young deaf children in the Deaf community is fairly rare.
You are creating a correlation that does not exist in order to justify your misperception.
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Unread 11-25-2009, 02:40 PM   #146 (permalink)
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I don't kow how to be more clear. Greater than 90% of deaf children are born to hearing parents. A huge percentage (some argue as high as 95%) of them are not involved in the Deaf community as children. Therefore, having young deaf children in the Deaf community is fairly rare.
That's a good question. I do not know what to answer. From my understanding and experience, I have been attended to Deaf school all my life. I do have my Deaf community since I was a little kiddo. Like I did interact with other Deaf kids and Deaf Adults at many Deaf events.
If you were referring to Deaf kids who go to school that have small number of Deaf kiddos along with hearing kiddos then i dont know what to say. I had no experience of this small number of Deaf kids who go to school with the majority of hearing kiddos at school. But I always thought Deaf children do have their Deaf community if they do interact with other Deaf kiddos at somewhere places or Deaf events or Deaf socials.
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Unread 11-25-2009, 02:40 PM   #147 (permalink)
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Yeah, I am hoping to get the turkey nuggets at Thanksgiving dinner this year.
I use them to make gravy!
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Unread 11-25-2009, 02:40 PM   #148 (permalink)
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I believe you are since this isn't a website for casual chatters. Most people here have a reason to be here. I would just be careful about describing a cultural perspective as "unfair". After all, it's not like anybody's human rights are being violated.
Lesson learned. When I first joined this site I made the mistake of refering to deafness as a disablilty. Kalista promptly and without discression corrected me.
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Unread 11-25-2009, 02:40 PM   #149 (permalink)
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Nobody is being rude to you. Just disagreeing...BTW, I think Mountain Man is a hearing parent of a deaf child just like u and RD are.
That's correct. I've been studying ASL in college for the past year and hope to graduate with an associates degree in ASL interpreting within the next year or so. I suppose I should mention that interpreters (and interpreters in training) tend to identify very strongly with the Deaf community, perhaps moreso in my case since my interest is doubly vested.
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Unread 11-25-2009, 02:41 PM   #150 (permalink)
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That's a good question. I do not know what to answer. From my understanding and experience, I have been attended to Deaf school all my life. I do have my Deaf community since I was a little kiddo. Like I did interact with other Deaf kids and Deaf Adults at many Deaf events.
If you were referring to Deaf kids who go to school that have small number of Deaf kiddos along with hearing kiddos then i dont know what to say. I had no experience of this small number of Deaf kids who go to school with the majority of hearing kiddos at school. But I always thought Deaf children do have their Deaf community if they do interact with other Deaf kiddos at somewhere places or Deaf events or Deaf socials.
You are correct. There is some faulty logic at play.
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