jillio

Pray tell, then, oh wise one, what does make one an oralist?

Deafness

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souggy

Oh yes, please explain to the people that went through the abuse of oralism that still continue today? What constitute someone to be an oralist? Be careful. I can testify that it's still around five years ago, and according to many hearing parents-- it has gotten worse in the last 6 months in that school district.

It's kinda like telling an Inuit, who saw things firsthand, that the missionary works in Canada wasn't a form of cultural assimilation when you account for all the things that happened in residential schools.

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Warning! Contains skewed comments & inane ramblings. May cause spontaneous human combustion

rick48

Sorry, but you, and jillio-lite (souggy), will have to play your little games with someone else. This person is looking for information/sources which I have provided. You are looking to engage in the umpteenth round of a never ending argument. Run along and find someone else to engage in your childish games before you get banned again.

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Beware of Sham Wow immitators!

jillio

Ahhhh....so you don't have an answer for what makes one an oralist. That would mean that you don't know what makes one not an oralist, either. The argument is never ending because your misinformation is never ending.

It would appear that you are terribly threatened by the question.

shel90

But you are an oralist.. You support the oralism philosophy.

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Shel~

"A child educated only at school is an uneducated child." -George Santayana

jillio

Exactly. That is why I asked him what made one an oralist, since he claims that raising your child oral only doesn't make you an oralist.

Bottesini

I do both these.[Not the advocating parts, but they are part of the definition.} So do lots of others. So what does that make us?


http://dictionary.reference.com/

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It's a joke Nathan!

jillio

Manual oralists?

shel90

I think oralist are those who do not sign at all.

IMO, For someone who has oral skills but use sign language should be called multilingual.

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Shel~

"A child educated only at school is an uneducated child." -George Santayana

jillio

I agree. I was just being silly. Someone who promotes both is bilingual and bicultural.

Bottesini

I like this term better!

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It's a joke Nathan!

Bottesini

Oh, now I am relieved.

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It's a joke Nathan!

jillio

My comic timing must be off tonight!

Bottesini

Or my sense of humor . Remember Saturday night is the visiting night alloted to my stepmother. Sorry for OT.

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It's a joke Nathan!

shel90

I think I am not in a silly mood tonight because I am tired. LOL!

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Shel~

"A child educated only at school is an uneducated child." -George Santayana

souggy

shel90 gave the right definition... and she did it in two sentences.

Not hard at all.

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Warning! Contains skewed comments & inane ramblings. May cause spontaneous human combustion

faire_jour

I think an oralist would be someone who believes that the oral philosophy is the ONLY appropriate choice for ANY child with a hearing loss. THey would advocate it for all children and adults, to the exclusion of all else.

rockdrummer

There is a good definition / explaination here that makes sense to me.

shel90

Read the definition that Botts has given...

o⋅ral⋅ist
  /ˈɔrəlɪst, ˈoʊr-/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [awr-uh-list, ohr-]

–noun
1. an advocate of oralism.
2. a deaf person who communicates through lipreading and speech.
–adjective
3. of or pertaining to oralism.

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Shel~

"A child educated only at school is an uneducated child." -George Santayana

pagedancer

I haven't had a chance to comment here for a bit due to a wedding trip, but I am thrilled to see the immense support and offer of resources and personal accounts. I apologize if this thread brought up negative feelings between advocates of varying methods. That was not my intention. To answer some questions about me so it's easier to understand where I'm coming from, yes, I'm studying to be a teacher for the Deaf. I started in January at Hunter College in NYC. The class that this research paper is for is called Education of Students who are Deaf and Hard of Hearing. The paper is meant to be an unbiased study of both Manualism and Oralism, advantages and disadvantages. I want you all to know that these responses have been amazingly helpful and I appreciate every offer. Thank you. If anyone is interested in seeing the paper, I will be happy to share it with you.

Also, shel - may I use a quote from one of your postings? I don't have to put your name if you do not wish it.
This: the oralist philosophy in deaf education puts too many deaf children at a disadvantage over their hearing peers due to the lack of full access to language and information at the educational setting. Even if the child can speak clearly, there is still the issue of receptive language and that's where ASL becomes vital.

Again, thank you to everyone!

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rockdrummer

I have a question for you as an upcomming teacher of deaf kids. I am curious to know what are the thoughts and opinions in the teaching circles regarding bilingual bicultural approach to educating deaf kids?

Thanks

jillio

It is the only way to go if you want to educate deaf children in a manner that will put them on par, academically, with their hearing peers.

rockdrummer

I understand your view. I just am wondering if it is a common one amongst the teaching community. The reason I ask is because when I brought up bilingual bicultural education at a meeting with my son's teachers, they had no clue what I was talking about.

shel90

Are your son's teachers certified in Deaf education? If they are certified in regular or special education only then they wouldnt know anything about it.

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Shel~

"A child educated only at school is an uneducated child." -George Santayana

shel90

Yep..

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Shel~

"A child educated only at school is an uneducated child." -George Santayana

shel90

Sure, go ahead.

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Shel~

"A child educated only at school is an uneducated child." -George Santayana

jillio

It is a commonly held perspective among TOD's and those who have specific training in the education and learning styles of deaf kids. Generalized special ed teachers don't really have much education in the issues, or the techniques specific to deaf students. Same with regular classroom teachers.

shel90

Remember my experiences in my undergrad program for special ed regarding to deaf education. How it was only covered in ONE lecture in the whole two years in the program? Also, their solution to teacing deaf children was just to make sure the lighting was good, put the kids at the front of the classroom, and make sure they can see our faces. I couldnt believe it.

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Shel~

"A child educated only at school is an uneducated child." -George Santayana

jillio

I know. I have looked at the curriculum for special ed at several universities. It is the same at all I have checked. And yet, the mainstream is turning over a deaf child's education to people who have no training in deaf education. It is a frightening situation when people are convinced that these special ed teachers have any expertise at all in deaf ed.

deafdyke

FYI, Bertling used to post at DumbNotes, and he was a sad bitter man.
I have never read the book.........BUT a) He was postlingally dhh, claiming to "speak" for the entire dhh population. b) his story took place WAY before Deaf ed was really reformed (in the old days deaf schools were basicly "basic ed with a heavy dose of vocational training.)
He thinks that oral-only and mainstreaming is the best. He's so bitter about going deaf that's caused him to habor a great deal of resentment against ASL and Deaf schools.

Amen if a kid doesn't respond well to minimal accomndations, they get lumped in with the "Ummmm who's President So-and So?" kids who're LEGION in special ed!
Not to mention that if a dhh kid has a "deaf voice", they encounter TONS of prejudice from dumbasses who think they're retarded! Oral only skills do not equalize most dhh (b/c ASL benifits hoh kids TOO) kids at ALL!