Deaf,asl,culture

babyangel5302 · 08-24-2009, 09:57 AM

do you think someone should be looked down on because they chose the oral route instead of asl and they are learning it? ...does that make them less accepted in the deaf world! if they are deaf

many people these days with CI's. and different tech. and diff,.types of schools have lack of resources to learn asl...

what do you think? and plz dont be mean.
can u still be accepted into the deaf culture without asl?
strong topic at my school

Waxy · 08-24-2009, 10:06 AM

i've been myself for almost 4 years with the comunity now, I... don't think a person that doesn't know SL (sign language), could be inserted normaly in the deaf culture.
that's like me, living in US, wanted to be inserted in their culture not knowing english.
SL is probably the most important aspect of being Deaf (meaning, as cultural group, not clinic)

Bottesini · 08-24-2009, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by babyangel5302

do you think someone should be looked down on because they chose the oral route instead of asl and they are learning it? ...does that make them less accepted in the deaf world! if they are deaf

many people these days with CI's. and different tech. and diff,.types of schools have lack of resources to learn asl...

what do you think? and plz dont be mean.
can u still be accepted into the deaf culture without asl?
strong topic at my school

Oral will make it completely impossible to be accepted.

If you learn ASL and work to fit in you can be accepted, but you can not have an attitude about how you must be accepted just because you are deaf.

babyangel5302 · 08-24-2009, 12:31 PM

well BOTTESINI
well i know asl my friend doesnt she is wanting to be in the DEAF CULTURE. She was raised oral and often gets mad at me because she doesnt know asl.
She has a CI. and she wonders why we as deaf people never accept the Oral Deaf,I do I never said that. But that is intresting. WHY so much hate with our brothers and sisters. Somewhat we are in the same situation. All this culture stuff is making me lose friends who have CI's and take the oral route. its making me ashamed to even be part of such a dysfunctional culture.

souggy · 08-24-2009, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by babyangel5302

All this culture stuff is making me lose friends who have CI's and take the oral route. its making me ashamed to even be part of such a dysfunctional culture.

Spend some time in the hearing world, and you will find that every other culture out there is equally just as dysfunctional as the Deaf culture. I know, I have been an participate in other cultures and subcultures, and for that reason I went back to the Deaf culture. So don't be ashamed of the culture itself, but rather of the people that are causing that problem.

Give it some time, usually deaf people go to the Deaf culture after they have been frustrated with the hearing world long enough. Just ignore the elitism, which every culture has, plough through and show them that you are worth talking to.

Deaf culture is tethered to the language though, because it is the basis in which there is no communication barrier and doesn't require ears. Even hard-of-hearing, once they know ASL, have a tendency to drift back toward the Deaf culture in the end.

Try teaching your friend ASL? You can be both oral and Deaf, just remember that the language is the stronghold that hold the whole thing together. Usually the Deaf are open-minded if people are making an effort to learn the language.

shel90 · 08-24-2009, 01:23 PM

ASL is fully accessible to any deaf/hoh person while spoken English is not so in order for language and communication to flow freely without any misunderstandings or anyone being left out, ASL is used by the Deaf community.

If some are oral and want to keep it that way, how will they communicate with several Deaf members who do not having any lip reading skills or have any speech skills?

That's the whole point of ASL..it is visually accessible to a community regarless of how much or how little hearing they have.

Cheri · 08-24-2009, 04:21 PM

I'm deaf and I accept just about anyone who's deaf, hard of hearing or has cochlear implant nor wears hearing aids even if they were raised oral, cued speech, ASL, SEE, PSE, or total communication (speaking and signing) not everyone in the deaf community are deaf prides, some of them are and some of them aren't. It all depends on the individuals.

I've been judged by some deaf prides for being raised in an oral setting and for using my voice while signing.

You can't make everyone happy you know?

inmate23 · 08-24-2009, 10:22 PM

Hi

This raises a question I ask myself daily. Depands what part of the Deaf community you what to be a part of.

I cant learn sls because I only have the use of one hand due to cerebral palsy.

Another problem I come across is that I dont have a Deaf voice.

I am part of the cued speech community for the above reasons.

But that doesnt not mean I dont go to the Deaf club on a friday when I am in town and have a drink.

National Cued Speech Association

See above link for more on cued speech

babyangel5302 · 08-24-2009, 11:08 PM

thanks cheri very good point i agree
and inmate that is correct i have a friend that uses cued speech very cool

CJB · 08-24-2009, 11:20 PM

I think oral Deaf should be considered part of the community because both oral and signing Deaf both have the experience of deafness in common. Oral Deaf just like signing Deaf have had the every day experiences of being yelled at, having people get mad for "ignoring them," etc. Yes sign languages are visual languages meant to be accessible to all Deaf/Hoh despite hearing status, but many oral Deaf don't choose to be raised oral, or are raised oral for other reasons, for example because of Cerebral Palsy or another medical condition.

You can probably tell I am all about breaking down walls, not putting them up.

Bebonang · 08-25-2009, 12:06 AM

I have to agree with souggy. Why don't you teach your friend ASL or any sign language that can be accepted into the Deaf community? If your friend want to be in the Deaf community, then she can learn to sign so that we can understand her better than trying to lipread someone's lip. Lipreading is very difficult, no matter how hard we try and we have to ask them repeat several times or lot. Your friend can not make any Deaf person who are in the Deaf Culture and sign in the Deaf community to have them talk oral to your friend. So it is important that she has to learn ASL before joining in the Deaf community. Good luck, babyangel.

shel90 · 08-25-2009, 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJB

I think oral Deaf should be considered part of the community because both oral and signing Deaf both have the experience of deafness in common. Oral Deaf just like signing Deaf have had the every day experiences of being yelled at, having people get mad for "ignoring them," etc. Yes sign languages are visual languages meant to be accessible to all Deaf/Hoh despite hearing status, but many oral Deaf don't choose to be raised oral, or are raised oral for other reasons, for example because of Cerebral Palsy or another medical condition.

You can probably tell I am all about breaking down walls, not putting them up.

You have agood point but how would that solve the problem if many Deaf people can't lipread or don't have any speech skills whatsover? How would the oral deaf person communicate with them with ease? Their communiocation would be awkward and difficult which can result in a communication barrier between the oral deaf and many members putting them back at square one. Oral deaf people are just as capable of learning ASL if they don't have CP or other mobility issues. I was an oral deaf and I learned ASL so I can communicate with a majority of Deaf people not just a select few in the Deaf community.

Besides, when there is a large group, even myself, as a former oral deaf, can't understand spoken language most of them time like I do with ASL.

However, nobody can force the girl to learn so she may only be able to communicate with a few Deaf people without any difficulities. Up to her.

Babyblue · 08-25-2009, 10:42 AM

That is like taking an American and dropping him off in the middle of China and him hollaring accept me in the Chinese culture for I am human too.

Culture is more of social groups that have things in commom socially.

Waxy · 08-25-2009, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJB

I think oral Deaf should be considered part of the community because both oral and signing Deaf both have the experience of deafness in common. Oral Deaf just like signing Deaf have had the every day experiences of being yelled at, having people get mad for "ignoring them," etc. Yes sign languages are visual languages meant to be accessible to all Deaf/Hoh despite hearing status, but many oral Deaf don't choose to be raised oral, or are raised oral for other reasons, for example because of Cerebral Palsy or another medical condition.

You can probably tell I am all about breaking down walls, not putting them up.

i think it would be "nice"... but its not possible.
they share a physical condition, but it isnt enough to be part of the community.

rockdrummer · 08-25-2009, 03:13 PM

Communication should be a two way street between deaf and hearing. The deaf culture is really a sub-culture within any given culture. What I mean is there are deaf people throughout the world and they are sub-cultures within the native culture. Here in the United states the American culture consists of English speaking Americans along with deaf Americans that use English, ASL and many other modes of communication. There are also many other sub-cultures in America but that is out of context here.

It would seem to me that you would want to be a part of the native culture and find ways to communicate with eachother. Otherwise you are somewhat isolating yourself. Since ASL has no written form and it is not realistic to expect the entire hearing population (the majority) to learn ASL, English would appear to be the middle ground.

I think it is important for deaf folks in America to learn English. I also think that it is important for family and friends of deaf individuals to learn whatever communication method that works to communicate with the deaf family member or friend weither that be ASL, SEE, CS English or any combination. But for the deaf individual to be able to communicate with the native society as a whole, they need to learn the native language of the majority.

shel90 · 08-25-2009, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockdrummer

Communication should be a two way street between deaf and hearing. The deaf culture is really a sub-culture within any given culture. What I mean is there are deaf people throughout the world and they are sub-cultures within the native culture. Here in the United states the American culture consists of English speaking Americans along with deaf Americans that use English, ASL and many other modes of communication. There are also many other sub-cultures in America but that is out of context here.

It would seem to me that you would want to be a part of the native culture and find ways to communicate with eachother. Otherwise you are somewhat isolating yourself. Since ASL has no written form and it is not realistic to expect the entire hearing population (the majority) to learn ASL, English would appear to be the middle ground.

I think it is important for deaf folks in America to learn English. I also think that it is important for family and friends of deaf individuals to learn whatever communication method that works to communicate with the deaf family member or friend weither that be ASL, SEE, CS English or any combination. But for the deaf individual to be able to communicate with the native society as a whole, they need to learn the native language of the majority.

That's why a majority of Deaf people are bilingual even if they don't have speech or lipreading skills. Lipreadin is very difficult for me and I get 50% of what is said if I am lucky but I am fluent in English regardless. Same with my brother who has no lipreading or speech skills. All deaf children in the American school systems are taught English and a majority of them master it.

Speech and lipreading skills are a whole separate issue. This person thinks oral deaf people should be part of Deaf culture and not have to learn ASL. that's where I am basing my questions on.

dreama · 08-25-2009, 05:05 PM

I am deafblind. I am only just now learning tactile sign language.

I think oral deaf should make an effort to communicate with signing deaf if they want to seek acceptance. However, it is harder for some to learn then others. Also as CJB said we all have the same experiences. I think signing deaf have it easier then oral deaf since they have signing to fall back on rather then having to lipread all the time. I used to lipread before I lost my sight.

I tried to learn sign language when I was at Doncaster Deaf college but I found it difficult. Mainly I suspect as I'm not into mixing with other people much. After that I started to lose my sight. Then I was told signing wasn't possible if I can't see very well.

When I was homeless a Deaf woman from an organisation for the deaf was not interested in helping as I was deafblind (HOH and low vision) and at the time using oral communication although I know a little sign. I was introduced as just being oral and because of that they weren't interested in helping me. Even though I did know a little sign and wanted to improve on that but once another case worker discribed me as oral deaf they lost interest in me. Even though I tried to tell her I know a little signing. Oral was what was pushed on me, not my choice but it didn't make much differance to her.

Now I am learning that you don't need sight to sign if you use tactile signing. You can learn without signing but I'm still very slow at learning to sign via tactile methods.

Apart from that Deaf woman I mentioned would other deaf accept someone like me. I want to sign very much and always have done but I'm very slow at learning and mean communication would be slow with them resorting to fingerspelling and of course it would all have to be done tactile. As now I am Deafblind (Profoundly deaf and almost completely blind).

souggy · 08-25-2009, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockdrummer

The deaf culture is really a sub-culture within any given culture. What I mean is there are deaf people throughout the world and they are sub-cultures within the native culture.

By the way, I would not use subculture in the context of your post. It is more closely associated with counterculture when popular music took a full swing and took a grasp on teenage generations in the 1940s and onward. I realize what you means, but the connotation of the word is not in your favour here. And since Deaf is not a "counterculture," I would not use it in your sentences.

I said the same thing years ago and got blasted for it by an interpreter and a few years later-- an anthropologist for bad choice of word. You have good intentions, but just a head-up that someone will or might have a problem with that word.

Bottesini · 08-25-2009, 07:18 PM

sub·cul·ture [ súb kùlchər ] (plural sub·cul·tures)

noun
Definition:

1. separate social group: an identifiably separate social group within a larger culture, especially one regarded as existing outside mainstream society

subculture definition - Dictionary - MSN Encarta

Subculture is the correct word. No doubt.

souggy · 08-25-2009, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bottesini

sub·cul·ture [ súb kùlchər ] (plural sub·cul·tures)

noun
Definition:

1. separate social group: an identifiably separate social group within a larger culture, especially one regarded as existing outside mainstream society

subculture definition - Dictionary - MSN Encarta

Subculture is the correct word. No doubt.

I argued that as well at the time, however they pointed out that "subcultures" are deliberate deviants of the mainstream, while "cultures" are not. This is what make Deaf culture a culture of its own, and not as a subculture. Otherwise if we try to apply definition of subculture, people can argue that American culture is a subculture of the Anglos and so on...

babyangel5302 · 08-25-2009, 08:42 PM

im glad that i raised this question so i can tell her thank you all for your input but as CJB said that is how my friend thinks and thats what she think should be acceptable regardless if you are an ASL user or an Oral Deaf person.
Thank you all for not getting all rude....even though it was kinda on the verge lol...but ok..u can keep the post comin! =]

Megan8987 · 08-25-2009, 11:57 PM

I'm Hearing and we (majority) get aggravated when other people from outside the US come into our country and refuse to learn our language but want to be treated like a US Citizen. Its kind of like "Why did I go to school to learn english, if in the end it doesn't matter?" I'm not speaking about everyone who is Hearing. But personally I get mad that they want me to try and figure out what they're trying to say in THEIR native tongue, not making an effort to try and speak in my native tongue which is English. ASL is the native tongue for the Deaf community...in MY opinion. :-)

Bottesini · 08-26-2009, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megan8987

I'm Hearing and we (majority) get aggravated when other people from outside the US come into our country and refuse to learn our language but want to be treated like a US Citizen. Its kind of like "Why did I go to school to learn english, if in the end it doesn't matter?" I'm not speaking about everyone who is Hearing. But personally I get mad that they want me to try and figure out what they're trying to say in THEIR native tongue, not making an effort to try and speak in my native tongue which is English. ASL is the native tongue for the Deaf community...in MY opinion. :-)

So you think we should all be speaking in your native tongue of English because we are all US citizens?

This may not make you popular among the people with no speech skills.

I kind of think this was a question directed to deaf people anyway.

shel90 · 08-26-2009, 04:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megan8987

I'm Hearing and we (majority) get aggravated when other people from outside the US come into our country and refuse to learn our language but want to be treated like a US Citizen. Its kind of like "Why did I go to school to learn english, if in the end it doesn't matter?" I'm not speaking about everyone who is Hearing. But personally I get mad that they want me to try and figure out what they're trying to say in THEIR native tongue, not making an effort to try and speak in my native tongue which is English. ASL is the native tongue for the Deaf community...in MY opinion. :-)

Lots of deaf people are unable to develop clear speech skills but hearing foriegners are capable of developing good speech skills in any language. That's the difference.

Waxy · 08-26-2009, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megan8987

I'm Hearing and we (majority) get aggravated when other people from outside the US come into our country and refuse to learn our language but want to be treated like a US Citizen. Its kind of like "Why did I go to school to learn english, if in the end it doesn't matter?" I'm not speaking about everyone who is Hearing. But personally I get mad that they want me to try and figure out what they're trying to say in THEIR native tongue, not making an effort to try and speak in my native tongue which is English. ASL is the native tongue for the Deaf community...in MY opinion. :-)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bottesini

So you think we should all be speaking in your native tongue of English because we are all US citizens?

This may not make you popular among the people with no speech skills.

I kind of think this was a question directed to deaf people anyway.

These are good points.
Can be actually possible that we hearings have the potential to get inserted in the Def comunity, but Deaf cannot into the Hearing?

It's hearing a must to do so?
Knowing sign language its a must for getting inserted, regarding the language issue, it's the same for hearings?
Could Deaf be insserted into the Hearing comunity without kowing the language?

They actually do, since, most of them (here at least) writes the spoken mother tongue very well (sponken language and written language are actually relatives)...

Obviously oral Deaf have the chance to get insserted faster into the Hearing comunity... But... you dont need to be oral for it... i mean, if you know to read, and write, you have the same chances?

Im not sure I make sense

Megan8987 · 08-26-2009, 09:25 AM

Ok, maybe I didn't make it clear. Sorry, let me try again. What I mean is that I dont expect people from other countries to COMPLETELY speak in my native tongue. But for them to expect me to understand them and get mad when I dont doesn't really seem fair. This has nothing to do with people who are Deaf, or HoH, or have a disability affecting speech. I mean those who CAN hear and who CAN speak (just not in English) I understand it was meant for people who are deaf(sorry still trying to figure out the D/d) but its ALMOST the same thing when your hearing, I appreciate when people try to learn my language. Oy...never mind scratch my last posts

Waxy · 08-26-2009, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megan8987

Ok, maybe I didn't make it clear. Sorry, let me try again. What I mean is that I dont expect people from other countries to COMPLETELY speak in my native tongue. But for them to expect me to understand them and get mad when I dont doesn't really seem fair. This has nothing to do with people who are Deaf, or HoH, or have a disability affecting speech. I mean those who CAN hear and who CAN speak (just not in English) I understand it was meant for people who are deaf(sorry still trying to figure out the D/d) but its ALMOST the same thing when your hearing, I appreciate when people try to learn my language. Oy...never mind scratch my last posts

Your thoughts are clear, but i dont see final point.
And pls, dont stop. that's what forums are for... to share our thoughts.

I'd like to point the difference between d/D

Deaf is the group. The deaf person that is part of a culture, that shares a system of comunication and view of the world. It's the cultural and social aspect. Anthropological, if you want.

deaf is usually reffered by the person with the lack of hearing. It's what the deaf person has in common in their group (deafness). It's the clinical/medical aspect.

inmate23 · 09-14-2009, 11:33 PM

ASL does not cater to hoh/D/deaf people as many have second abilityies eg. cerebral palsy. I can only use one hand.

I am a cued speech user because of this.

souggy · 09-14-2009, 11:39 PM

May I ask what your limitations are?

I had a one-armed sign language interpreter once, and I could understand her fine...

Sorry if it sounds rude, it just so particular that I don't really understand why it wouldn't cater to someone who is unable to use one of their limbs.

***VamPyroX*** · 09-15-2009, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by souggy

May I ask what your limitations are?

I had a one-armed sign language interpreter once, and I could understand her fine...

Sorry if it sounds rude, it just so particular that I don't really understand why it wouldn't cater to someone who is unable to use one of their limbs.

I once had an interpreter who only had 3 fingers on one hand. I still understood him fine, even his fingerspelling.

08-24-2009, 09:57 AM	#1 (permalink)
babyangel5302 Carmen Join Date: May 2009 Location: Georgia Posts: 16	Deaf,asl,culture do you think someone should be looked down on because they chose the oral route instead of asl and they are learning it? ...does that make them less accepted in the deaf world! if they are deaf many people these days with CI's. and different tech. and diff,.types of schools have lack of resources to learn asl... what do you think? and plz dont be mean. can u still be accepted into the deaf culture without asl? strong topic at my school __________________ ~Carmen~

08-24-2009, 10:06 AM	#2 (permalink)
Waxy Slacker Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Champs-Élysées Posts: 74	i've been myself for almost 4 years with the comunity now, I... don't think a person that doesn't know SL (sign language), could be inserted normaly in the deaf culture. that's like me, living in US, wanted to be inserted in their culture not knowing english. SL is probably the most important aspect of being Deaf (meaning, as cultural group, not clinic) __________________ Better be hated than forgotten. Last edited by Waxy; 08-24-2009 at 03:27 PM.

08-24-2009, 12:31 PM	#4 (permalink)
babyangel5302 Carmen Join Date: May 2009 Location: Georgia Posts: 16	well BOTTESINI well i know asl my friend doesnt she is wanting to be in the DEAF CULTURE. She was raised oral and often gets mad at me because she doesnt know asl. She has a CI. and she wonders why we as deaf people never accept the Oral Deaf,I do I never said that. But that is intresting. WHY so much hate with our brothers and sisters. Somewhat we are in the same situation. All this culture stuff is making me lose friends who have CI's and take the oral route. its making me ashamed to even be part of such a dysfunctional culture. __________________ ~Carmen~

08-24-2009, 01:23 PM	#6 (permalink)
shel90 In a pink and black world Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: In the land of the free Posts: 24,022 Blog Entries: 3	ASL is fully accessible to any deaf/hoh person while spoken English is not so in order for language and communication to flow freely without any misunderstandings or anyone being left out, ASL is used by the Deaf community. If some are oral and want to keep it that way, how will they communicate with several Deaf members who do not having any lip reading skills or have any speech skills? That's the whole point of ASL..it is visually accessible to a community regarless of how much or how little hearing they have. __________________ Shel~ "A child educated only at school is an uneducated child." -George Santayana

08-24-2009, 04:21 PM	#7 (permalink)
Cheri Prayers for my dad. Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 22,616	I'm deaf and I accept just about anyone who's deaf, hard of hearing or has cochlear implant nor wears hearing aids even if they were raised oral, cued speech, ASL, SEE, PSE, or total communication (speaking and signing) not everyone in the deaf community are deaf prides, some of them are and some of them aren't. It all depends on the individuals. I've been judged by some deaf prides for being raised in an oral setting and for using my voice while signing. You can't make everyone happy you know? __________________ God didn't promise days without pain, laughter without sorrow and sun without rain, But God did promise strength for the day, comfort for the tears and light for the way.

Today
Deafness	Sponsored Links __________________ This advertising will not be shown in this way to registered members. Register your free account today and become a member on AllDeaf.com

08-24-2009, 10:22 PM	#8 (permalink)
inmate23 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: christchuch Posts: 161	Yes and no Hi This raises a question I ask myself daily. Depands what part of the Deaf community you what to be a part of. I cant learn sls because I only have the use of one hand due to cerebral palsy. Another problem I come across is that I dont have a Deaf voice. I am part of the cued speech community for the above reasons. But that doesnt not mean I dont go to the Deaf club on a friday when I am in town and have a drink. National Cued Speech Association See above link for more on cued speech

08-24-2009, 11:08 PM	#9 (permalink)
babyangel5302 Carmen Join Date: May 2009 Location: Georgia Posts: 16	thanks cheri very good point i agree and inmate that is correct i have a friend that uses cued speech very cool __________________ ~Carmen~

08-24-2009, 11:20 PM	#10 (permalink)
CJB deafblind writer Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: U.S. Posts: 1,425	I think oral Deaf should be considered part of the community because both oral and signing Deaf both have the experience of deafness in common. Oral Deaf just like signing Deaf have had the every day experiences of being yelled at, having people get mad for "ignoring them," etc. Yes sign languages are visual languages meant to be accessible to all Deaf/Hoh despite hearing status, but many oral Deaf don't choose to be raised oral, or are raised oral for other reasons, for example because of Cerebral Palsy or another medical condition. You can probably tell I am all about breaking down walls, not putting them up.

08-25-2009, 12:06 AM	#11 (permalink)
Bebonang "Deaf Cree Militant" Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Manitoulin Island on Lake Huron in Canada Posts: 2,878	I have to agree with souggy. Why don't you teach your friend ASL or any sign language that can be accepted into the Deaf community? If your friend want to be in the Deaf community, then she can learn to sign so that we can understand her better than trying to lipread someone's lip. Lipreading is very difficult, no matter how hard we try and we have to ask them repeat several times or lot. Your friend can not make any Deaf person who are in the Deaf Culture and sign in the Deaf community to have them talk oral to your friend. So it is important that she has to learn ASL before joining in the Deaf community. Good luck, babyangel. __________________ I HAVE BEEN DEAF SINCE BIRTH, AND IT IS STILL AWESOME TO BE . <Deaf> <very happy>

08-25-2009, 10:42 AM	#13 (permalink)
Babyblue Registered User Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 7,539	That is like taking an American and dropping him off in the middle of China and him hollaring accept me in the Chinese culture for I am human too. Culture is more of social groups that have things in commom socially.

08-25-2009, 03:13 PM	#15 (permalink)
rockdrummer Weapon of mass percussion Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Chicago area Posts: 4,090	Communication should be a two way street between deaf and hearing. The deaf culture is really a sub-culture within any given culture. What I mean is there are deaf people throughout the world and they are sub-cultures within the native culture. Here in the United states the American culture consists of English speaking Americans along with deaf Americans that use English, ASL and many other modes of communication. There are also many other sub-cultures in America but that is out of context here. It would seem to me that you would want to be a part of the native culture and find ways to communicate with eachother. Otherwise you are somewhat isolating yourself. Since ASL has no written form and it is not realistic to expect the entire hearing population (the majority) to learn ASL, English would appear to be the middle ground. I think it is important for deaf folks in America to learn English. I also think that it is important for family and friends of deaf individuals to learn whatever communication method that works to communicate with the deaf family member or friend weither that be ASL, SEE, CS English or any combination. But for the deaf individual to be able to communicate with the native society as a whole, they need to learn the native language of the majority.

08-25-2009, 05:05 PM	#17 (permalink)
dreama deafblind vegan Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: England Posts: 3,018	I am deafblind. I am only just now learning tactile sign language. I think oral deaf should make an effort to communicate with signing deaf if they want to seek acceptance. However, it is harder for some to learn then others. Also as CJB said we all have the same experiences. I think signing deaf have it easier then oral deaf since they have signing to fall back on rather then having to lipread all the time. I used to lipread before I lost my sight. I tried to learn sign language when I was at Doncaster Deaf college but I found it difficult. Mainly I suspect as I'm not into mixing with other people much. After that I started to lose my sight. Then I was told signing wasn't possible if I can't see very well. When I was homeless a Deaf woman from an organisation for the deaf was not interested in helping as I was deafblind (HOH and low vision) and at the time using oral communication although I know a little sign. I was introduced as just being oral and because of that they weren't interested in helping me. Even though I did know a little sign and wanted to improve on that but once another case worker discribed me as oral deaf they lost interest in me. Even though I tried to tell her I know a little signing. Oral was what was pushed on me, not my choice but it didn't make much differance to her. Now I am learning that you don't need sight to sign if you use tactile signing. You can learn without signing but I'm still very slow at learning to sign via tactile methods. Apart from that Deaf woman I mentioned would other deaf accept someone like me. I want to sign very much and always have done but I'm very slow at learning and mean communication would be slow with them resorting to fingerspelling and of course it would all have to be done tactile. As now I am Deafblind (Profoundly deaf and almost completely blind). __________________ I speak for those who cannot speak for themselves. http://www.fightfoca.com/

08-25-2009, 07:18 PM	#19 (permalink)
Bottesini Bodhar agus leath dall Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Middle of dog pack Posts: 16,083	sub·cul·ture [ súb kùlchər ] (plural sub·cul·tures) noun Definition: 1. separate social group: an identifiably separate social group within a larger culture, especially one regarded as existing outside mainstream society subculture definition - Dictionary - MSN Encarta Subculture is the correct word. No doubt. __________________ It's a joke Nathan!

08-25-2009, 08:42 PM	#21 (permalink)
babyangel5302 Carmen Join Date: May 2009 Location: Georgia Posts: 16	im glad that i raised this question so i can tell her thank you all for your input but as CJB said that is how my friend thinks and thats what she think should be acceptable regardless if you are an ASL user or an Oral Deaf person. Thank you all for not getting all rude....even though it was kinda on the verge lol...but ok..u can keep the post comin! =] __________________ ~Carmen~

08-25-2009, 11:57 PM	#22 (permalink)
Megan8987 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Nevada Posts: 20	I'm Hearing and we (majority) get aggravated when other people from outside the US come into our country and refuse to learn our language but want to be treated like a US Citizen. Its kind of like "Why did I go to school to learn english, if in the end it doesn't matter?" I'm not speaking about everyone who is Hearing. But personally I get mad that they want me to try and figure out what they're trying to say in THEIR native tongue, not making an effort to try and speak in my native tongue which is English. ASL is the native tongue for the Deaf community...in MY opinion. :-)

08-26-2009, 09:25 AM	#26 (permalink)
Megan8987 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Nevada Posts: 20	Ok, maybe I didn't make it clear. Sorry, let me try again. What I mean is that I dont expect people from other countries to COMPLETELY speak in my native tongue. But for them to expect me to understand them and get mad when I dont doesn't really seem fair. This has nothing to do with people who are Deaf, or HoH, or have a disability affecting speech. I mean those who CAN hear and who CAN speak (just not in English) I understand it was meant for people who are deaf(sorry still trying to figure out the D/d) but its ALMOST the same thing when your hearing, I appreciate when people try to learn my language. Oy...never mind scratch my last posts

09-14-2009, 11:33 PM	#28 (permalink)
inmate23 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: christchuch Posts: 161	ASL does not cater to hoh/D/deaf people as many have second abilityies eg. cerebral palsy. I can only use one hand. I am a cued speech user because of this.

09-14-2009, 11:39 PM	#29 (permalink)
souggy Ace Attorney Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Victoria, BC Posts: 2,379	May I ask what your limitations are? I had a one-armed sign language interpreter once, and I could understand her fine... Sorry if it sounds rude, it just so particular that I don't really understand why it wouldn't cater to someone who is unable to use one of their limbs. __________________ Souggy's Blog Warning! Contains skewed comments & inane ramblings. May cause spontaneous human combustion

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