Cheri

Say what?? I've been to Turkey, and I do not speak their language, I sit with a friend of mine who is from Turkey, we spoke in English, it was just me and him having a conversation, why do I must speak their language when I'm talking to one person? If my friend understands me, and I understand him, then why is it rude not to speak their language when I'm not even talking to anyone else but him. It just doesn't even make no sense.

I've seen Chinese people speak Chinese when I ordered food from a Chinese restaurant in America, and I don't even consider that rude, because they're not talking to me, they're talking to each others. It'll be rude if they spoke in Chinese to me, when I don't even know their language.

You know that the United States has no declared official language, we have many immigrants here with non-English languages, and they are not required to know English, but they should know some.


How so? You don't know anyone else there only the person you are talking to. Since when are you not allow to talk to one person when you are at a place where a majority of people there share the same language? There's no law against that. It's a public place, a free world, you can go anywhere to have a private conversation with anyone.

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Mrs Bucket

Cheri, this is hearing culture you went to.

Deaf Culture is unique and different than hearing culture.

Keep in mind that you have mentioned several times that you are not from the Deaf Culture. You don't sign ASL.

You are an oralist. To really grasp Deaf Culture, you'd have to immerse yourself into the Deaf Community and finally understand our frustrations.

Please do us a big favour and don't compare the hearing community to the Deaf community.

KarissaMann05

Mmm... Interesting posts here...

I don't think it is offensive if they are in a public and use a voice for the preference of languages. If they don't want to social with D/deaf people to learn ASL or to communication with them and only want to chat between of two deaf people, then let them be so. But I will consider it is rude only if they want to talk me without using ASL or writing on a paper. I meant, why are they not use their hands to communication or write it down on paper for the communication?

Maybe I just see differently?

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Mrs Bucket

Call it experience growing up with some hearing people who assume they have the best intentions at heart when they don't.

Some educators who assume they think they were doing it right by us, Deaf students, in the mainstreaming environment.

My sisters and I would sign and guess what? The hearing teachers would say to us "That's rude! Don't sign in front of other people!"

Now put yourself in my place and some "hard of hearing" people that have ASL knowledge decides to talk to each other in a Deaf social? You bet your arse I will be walking up to them and tell them not to talk.

I've done the same to my intervenors who decided to talk to each other and leaving the DeafBlind clients standing around with no knowledge of what is going on. I'd tactile what is going on and I'd straight out tell the intervenors NOT to talk when they have their own clients right by them.

They'd say feebly "But I'm talking to my friend now".. They know better than to talk using voice when they have a person who has no vision and no voice. It's blatantly being rude.

Now you understand why I keep saying hearing culture and Deaf culture are not the same, period.

It is rude to be talking when you know you can sign in front of other Deaf people. The very same people complain about this are making the very same effort to shun themselves from the Deaf Community, not those who asks them not to talk.

Just don't be rude, period. Yes, I come off as abrasive and I have to do this. It's called common sense, folks. Use it, please.

Some of your actions will reflect badly off & this is like vibes, people pick it up and ostracize you right away. It's not surprising that some of you post here complaining.

I don't need to say anymore. Period.

Cheri

I am an oralist? I don't know ASL? Okay. I'll allow some people on AD who met me in real life that can tell you if that's true or not.

You have never met me in real life to make a blanket statement like that. Don't ever do that again.

Members here were talking about different culturals, not just the deaf community, so do me a favor read the entire thread before you jump all over me. How about that?

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Mrs Bucket

We have chatted in AIM and MSN.

We know each other for several years. You conveniently forget we know each other. I am not making a blanket statement because your posts speaks for yourself.

I don't need to meet you and don't plan to.

I have been following this thread and others.

Please keep in mind that I am far much more educated about ASL, Deaf Culture, ASL Linguistics and so on than you will be.

Sure you know more about BBQ'ing than I do, I'll give you that.

shel90

Nope..most people will identify you as a beginner signer and will give you the benefit of doubt. I was in the same shoes as you were when I first entered Gallaudet. My ASL was like level 3.

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shel90

True...I see it too.

I didnt fully understand until I immersed myself in Deaf culture. Before, I thought I did but I didnt at all. LOL!

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Mrs Bucket

There are 6 levels of ASL when you learn.

As you learn each level, your expertise changes. The instructor will encourage you to do much more socialising ie silent dinners, socialising with the Deaf Community and will grade you when he/she appears at those socials.

The instructor may recruit his/her friends to grade you as well. There are different approaches to different instructors but they all share one same perspective, learn ASL and Deaf Culture.

Cheri

We rarely ever talk on AIMS, I would say maybe at least three times the most in the past. I have never stated that I was an oralist, I grew up in an oral setting most of my child hood life, and then went in total communication. It doesn't mean I'm an oralist. I do know ASL, I do know PSE and SEE. I do speak and sign the same time, and sometimes I turn my voice off when I'm signing in ASL, and I'm very much a part of the deaf community, I do go to deaf events. very much.

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Mrs Bucket

Just don't know why it is so hard for a group of people to understand us, a small group of Culturally Deaf people, in this site.

Deaf Culture exists.

Deaf Communities exists.

Don't question their existences.

shel90

What annoys me is people who are not culturally Deaf state what should be right and wrong in Deaf culture. They have no place to determine the values and norms of Deaf culture.

You and I didnt make the rules in Deaf culture..it is decades and decades of growth and change. Nobody can just come in and change the rules. Very offensive.

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Mrs Bucket

This makes you an oralist by our definition.

You grew up in an oral setting therefore you are an oralist.

You say you know ASL but you don't sign it solely because you sign other methods.

You need to stick with ONLY one language, ASL to claim you sign ASL. You cannot sign PSE, TC, voice and still sign ASL. This is called fence-straddling and confusing yourself & others.

To go to deaf events doesn't mean you are a part of the Deaf Community because you question us, our existence and our language.

You constantly question our approaches so please don't call yourself a part of us until you accept yourself first as a "Culturally Deaf" person and accept the existences of the Deaf Culture and the Deaf Community.

Frisky Feline

you and shel said it all really good. that's what i need this good vibes of ASL to bring here in my hometown and keep spreading like a good soul.

Frisky Feline

amen to that!

shel90

Aww..here is a

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Mrs Bucket

It is our values and our morals.

We didn't determine them. There's no golden book we follow.

No golden idol we follow.

This is decades of suppression, folks.

We finally speak out and the same vicious cycle repeats.

To think someone can try to alter the past or change a set or morals.. no thanks. You'll have to put up with the whole community.

Mrs Bucket

to you!

Cheri

I've met some people like you and those like you rubs me the wrong way, and I avoid people like you that are so judgmental, just because I'm not "deaf" enough in your define that I don't share the same language, values, behavior patterns it doesn't make me any less of a deaf person than you. Thanks for showing me who you really are.

I'm done for today. peace out.

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Mrs Bucket

That is your issue because self acceptance comes first.

I am who I am. You call it judgmental, I call it honest.

Please don't bother pulling the "simpering minion" act, dear Cheri.

It gets old.. bigtime. I've seen you do this all the time with debates when they don't go your way which is why I set you in your place. You don't like it, grow up.

It shows you cannot debate, period. If you cannot agree with the philosophy of Deaf Culture/Community, simply walk away or don't discuss it.

You will return back to this thread, I know you too well. You are just too predictable, Cheri.

Frisky Feline

If anyone who want to come to gallaudet university. if you start talking there. then others will get the idea who you are and may not bother to come to talk to you until you come to us. then we will ask you "whats up with talking all about?" It will take some times for them to get to know you better.

over the year, i was on a gallaudet campus, i have never saw anyone who speaking with signing on a campus.I always see some people who just learn signing and they did turn their voices off and sign it anyway. Once you arrive on a galludet campus then you would feel like it is a deaf community that impluse you to sign it anyway.

souggy

Wish I got the money to go to Gallaudet or NTID. It is Mecca for me. Well, Gallaudet, NTID and Amsterdam are Meccas.

I really don't get your argument Cherri. I granted exceptions for language minorities. Minorities speak their languages in their own settings-- which you have pointed out and I have already stated in my first or second post on this thread.

Your example of Turkey? Do you know Turkish? No? Then you are not expected to speak Turkish. The example given in the thread is questioning the morals of people who know ASL, but choose not to use ASL on a Deaf campus.

Here, Quebecois get really uppity when someone speak English in front of them in Quebec and Francophone communities. Same with western Canadians, they get really ticked off when someone speak French in front of them. Ontario and Maritimes seem to be the only places in Canada where both languages are accepted. And this is as a Canadian. So I don't really understand faire jour's posts since what she described just doesn't happen here in western Canada.

I purposely date English as Second Language immigrants because I feel like there is less barriers between us, so I know what their worlds are like. I don't live it, but I can understand the whole cultural stigma against non-English languages in western Canada and the exceptions granted for those languages. Gallaudet, in my eyes, is one of those exception. Gallaudet is just as important to the Deaf people as Koreatowns are important to Koreans in a cultural sense-- and they are not really happy if a known speaker don't speak the same language. In term of language minority communities, if you know their language, but choose not to speak it on their own turf-- then you are offending them; they are more forgiving toward people that don't know their languages.

I love the Deaf culture and the Deaf community. There are some things that I don't understand fully yet, however I get that with anywhere I go in any community I choose to interact with-- not just the Deaf culture and that is common among all blind people according to the coordinators at the CNIB.

So the examples given here? The morals described by the culturally Deaf is really normal for me because I see it everyday when I go into Chinatown, Koreatown, go into Amish, Mennonite and Hueritte colonies and so on. Or even meet someone from Quebec. The Deaf culture norms described here is the norm for me.

I just wish Anglophones have more respect for ASL among kids. Other cultures that I have interacted with have more respect for the Deaf.

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Cheri

That's not what kokonut had asked on his very first post, he said supposedly a couple obviously wear a hearing aid or cochlear implant walk into an eatery section inside a mall and came across a huge group of deaf people (signers), the couple continues to talk and order food, then processed with their conversation while sitting down using their voice. He asked would this considered offensive by deaf people for them to talk verbally in a public place such as a mall as he stated above? And my answer was no and it still is.

If two hearing people are allow to sign in public which most of you don't considered that rude, then why can't the two deaf people use their voice in public? That's the whole point of what he was trying to ask from the get and go, But some of them brought up Gally, that's where the thread gets confused.

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shel90

You are misunderstanding what she is saying. What she meant you still hold the hearing view and haven't fully understood or accepted Deaf culture.

I remember so many of your posts in many other threads where you would complain about culturally Deaf people and how they are. That shows that you still hold a hearing point of view. I wonder why it bothers you so much when someone tells you that but the same time, it is ok for you to complain about Deaf people and Deaf culture?

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shel90

See post #40..Kokonut (the OP) was the one who changed the theme of this thread by changing the scenario to Gallaudet.

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Daredevel7

So does this mean I CAN talk in Gallaudet, because my ASL is not good enough? Seems like they would encourage beginners to sign anyway so that "they can get more practice and get better at ASL."

It kinda makes sense for a deaf person, but it seems pretty.... "unwelcome" for hearing people to me, since they are struggling with learning a new language. Like you said, it's a culture thing, accept it as it is, every culture has "rules", etc. But I wonder....if it backfires on their face because it turns hearing people off from being interested in being an interpreter, etc. Oh well.....

I am still planning on talking if I ever visit Gally. I'm up for a deaf fight.

Cheri

He did not say they knew sign language, all he asked was if two deaf/hard of hearing people sitting at a table at a Market place eating and talking and not signing to each other. How could you be offended if you don't know them personally, You don't know if they knew signs or not. What if they were oralists?

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Avoid being a victim of a stroke, a stroke can happen to anyone at anytime. You will never know how devastating this could be until you had live through it. It affects everybody. So Support Stroke Awareness to find a cure and hope.

shel90

I think Frisky has the answer in one of her posts.

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Mrs Bucket

Like a moth to the flame.. you're back.

If you look at the .pdf of Gallaudet

The Market Place is on campus.

Again.. on campus. Talking on campus in front of Deaf people.

Rude.

Stop trivialising details, Cheri.

Just.like.STFU.

Frisky Feline

I think wait till you visit gallaudet that will put a lot of strong influences you to sign without realizing it. Like that's a natural response when you would have more chance to pick up how to sign faster in a filled of everyone who signs on a campus. Like it is kind of a magicial feeling over there.