TinyAttentionSp

I mean, I'm only assuming, but because the hand movements and the body language is so specific that it seems that much more confusing when people use the wrong sign rather than when people use the wrong word or grammatical sequence in interlingual speech. I mean, i'm learning from a website only, and i was confusing myself when i realized i was mistaking the sign for "who?" (findex finger fluttering near mouth) and "hearing" (index finger rotating in front of the mouth). Two completely different meanings that when you mess that up, i just feel like its so much harder to figure out what they're really trying to say. Plus I can only assume that the signing is so much faster and more casual when they're signing all their lives.

Do you get frustrated easily when you're trying to communicate with baby signers?

Deafness

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OpheliaSpeaks

I have to say, honestly, yes I do. Especially when my thoughts are racing and I'm trying to get everything out. I try to be patient, but it's hard sometimes. I also realize that the more frustrated I am, the less I sign at home, and the less exposure my partner gets - no good on all fronts.

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Jiro

I am not fluent with my signing YET but I'm glad and thankful that my deaf friends are very patient with me (including 4 ADers in here - Alex, Daisy, Sequoias, and MissyWinks)

take it easy. don't try to speed-sign. master your fingerspelling. context first then tell the story

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shel90

I try not to refer to using spoken English when I am signing with someone who isnt fluent becaue that wouldn't help them learn but it is so hard sometimes. My neighbor and I are becoming close friends and he is just learning ASL and he has told me not to use my voice with him. It is a challenge but I am very patient cuz he is such a sweetie.

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VamPyroX

Don't worry if you're doing something wrong. Even I have found myself signing words wrong.

Sometimes, I'll see someone sign something and it's the only time I've seen that sign used. I never use that sign until months later, but I do it wrong. No one said anything cuz they understood me by reading my lips. Years later, someone wonders what I'm saying and I spell it out... then they correct me.

For me, I've seen many people sign different things differently... but the overall concept of what they're trying to say is easily understood by me. That's why I've hardly objected with how they were signing.

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Hutt5asl

I know for me, I SO much appreciate anyone who is patient enough to try to sign with me (ha ha, NAN!). I get so frustrated with myself because i keep asking people to repeat what they've signed, and slower, so i can read the signs.

As far as signing something wrong, I think if you've got the main idea others can figure out what you're saying by the context of the sentence and by the other signs you're using.

So, to all who are kind enough to be patient with us newbies, who really are trying to learn this language....

!!

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Jiro

yep. exactly same thing what hearing people go thru. Lot of people speak the words differently because of accents or maybe because they used the word once and never used it again until way later - forgetting how to pronounce it. When the other person does not understand, they spell the word aloud.

same thing

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souggy

I admit, I do find it annoying in both English AND ASL, but that is just because I am not a very patient person to converse with. It just my personality, and I am working on changing that. However I do empathise because my left hand isn't the easiest to sight-read. Also, I tend to switch between ASL and English without thinking about it, so my syntax don't always come out clear in both languages.

Anyway, just be patient, and don't let others put you down. Most of us are friendly.

Although, I have to say... I tap my ear twice for "hearing" because the are more and more oral deaf out there everyday and using the traditional sign doesn't really make sense anymore. Plus, I confuse it for "who" from time to time due to the fact I can't easily distinguish between the two up front. I see other languages that derived from LSF is making the change from "hearing" (at the lip) to "hearing" (at the ear lobe.) May or may not be acceptable in your community, I don't know. :\

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LDNanna

Thanks to you too, Lauren and Annie. Being late deaf, and having few signing friends locally, it is soo nice to have folks to "talk" to. I really like AD. I can't begin to tell you all how wonderful you all are to befriend me, be patient with me, and give such great advice. Every one has been patient, kind and accepting. If any one considers being impatient then let me just say how much difference a little patience can make in one's life. I feel like I have real friends here, even if you are all on line. It is nice to be understood. Patience is more than a virtue - it can also be a blessing.

When the college students see me sign with a friend, they are very curious. They often come by the office to ask for the "word of the day". They are learning, and it is very good. They thank me for my patience. I thank them for their interest!

Hoping that the school will see the interest and offer a real class.

Em903

I think it probably just depends on the person. I know my Darin has a lot of patience with me thankfully and will give me the sign for when I fingerspell something. But then again, I've also met a person who wanted nothing to do with ASL students (probably because of our excessive questions *smiles*). A tip, if you fingerspell something, try picturing the word in your head first and visualize it as a FORM rather than seeing it letter-by-letter. I got MUCH faster and clearer at fingerspelling than trying it like elementary school "Spelling bee" way. Good luck

Mountain Man

I'm sure it depends on many factors. In a one-on-one discussion, it's probably easier for someone to be patient, but in a group setting, I imagine it'd get frustrating if everybody in the group kept having to stop to explain things to the one person. Thankfully, the majority of Deaf folks I've encountered have been very gracious and patient when I told them I am in the process of learning ASL, though I know eventually I'm going to encounter a jerk, but such is life.

kokonut

Imaging the bigger frustration of a baby signer trying to understand what a fluent signer is saying while learning sign language.

Patience is key between both parties.

kipourgos

Just like when you're speaking with a person with a very limited understanding of English, of course it can be frustrating. But if you really want to talk with that person, you deal with it. Having been on the learning end of both spoken language and now sign, I also have to add my gratitude to the people who are patient with me. Remember them when you get fluent yourself!

In large groups I tend to do more observing, but part of this culture is that people generally turn to you and sign something simple just to remind you that you aren't forgotten.

And take it for granted you'll make mistakes, and they might be funny. I recently told someone here that I was 500 years old...it's all part of the process!

Keiro

I'm fairly fluent... but I guess not anymore, ever since I moved away from California.

Right now, I feel more isolated than ever, due to the fact that I know literally no one who knows sign language in my area... aside from the SorensonVRS installer, Kunle at Houston, TX.

I've gotten so used to speaking because it's easier to speak rather than sign.

... I need to get in touch with deaf people because I know for a fact I'm losing my signing fluency. It's taking longer to remember which signs are which.

Cheri

Same goes with me, I don't objected the way anyone sign either, I usually read their lips and signs the same time. So I understood what they were signing. It's fun to learn other people's signs that are a little different than my signs.

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sima1289

for me, it's the opposite of the thread title: i'm hearing, and totally not fluent in signing (although i can carry on a conversation). so sometimes i get frustrated when i can't understand people signing, which is about 75% of the time.

of course, there are some big factors that come into play:
1. i only took legitimate sign language classes for 2 years: 5th and 6th grade. then, this year, i took a 2-week asl class that met monday through friday for about 4 hours (beginning of the school day until lunch). other than that, i've pretty much taught myself.

2. i don't get very much exposure to deaf people. i've met a few deaf people around my age over the years, but only 1 of them lives near me, and i get to see her once a year, if that. i used to video-chat with another deaf friend constantly, but our schedules got really busy (damn senior year of high school! haha ;-P), so we stopped.

and then there's a minor factor: different d/Deaf people use different slang terms or new versions of signs, so i might know the old version of a sign/word, the d/Deaf person signs using the new version, and i'm lost. and there's always slang everywhere, which just adds to the confusion.

i consider myself a decent signer, but i'm a HORRIBLE translator

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Bottesini

My question, has Tiny Attention Span disappeared without learning the answer to the question they posed?

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C.C.Sinned

must have been distracted after a tiny period of time passed

JennyB

I get frustrated, yes. Especially when I go to school and I have two interpreters with me and ASL students come up to struggle their way through a conversation with me. I am all for chatting with them, but I prefer to be able to actually communicate and I would rather use the interpreter. Most of the time they are horrendously offended when I call them over though...so I struggle through the conversations and after wards make fun of the students with the interpreters

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TinyAttentionSp

No, i'm still here. I like to lurk. Sorry. I read every reply.

society's_child

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Chuck

I get frustrated when ASL signers think we should all learn ASL and every other sign language is "stupid, slow". When ASL is the sloppiest language out there.

SEE is the first, and thus rules forever =P

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Bottesini

FSH- morpheme

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Chuck

What? Speak english

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shel90

Today was my first day back at work..was nice to be back in an ASL environment all day. Communication was so easy and clear among deaf and hearing people.

Sure, I love hanging out with my neighbors but it is nice to be in an environment where I am not constantly teaching the other person the correct signs for a lot of words. Just nice to really relax and have free-flowing conversations.

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souggy

This statement is along the same line as when the Anglophones view French as "sloppy" here. Just because English and SEE are explicitly stressed, it doesn't means unstressed languages are sloppy.

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Chuck

I like that word, stressed. You're really good with words.

English and SEE are not explicity stressed, there is slang in the english language and there is individual movements an interpreter can make and still have the correct fingers to her sign. ASL people tend to make their signs to align with their body movement, it's really sloppy. VERY.

One person's "non-stressed" ASL sign can mean something totally different with another's same ASL sign. Deaf people have to stop each other sometimes for them to explain a sign or finger spell what they're saying. So it's not standard, is what I'm trying to say here. SEE is standard, ASL is not.

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souggy

Eh, I used to go "SEE, English and German are very blocky" then I was informed by a linguist it is because the consonants are stressed in the Germanic languages unlike the romantic languages which are obviously unstressed.

Second, it is not uncommon for English speakers to stop EACH others to clarify what they means. I get B.C. folks asking me what I means because I use a lot of Albertan vocabulary in my speech, and I haven't really developed a B.C. accent or B.C. lexicon yet.

So it really shouldn't be a surprise when Deaf people do it to each others, especially since vast geography of the States isolates the ASL in each community from each others quite a bit.

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Chuck

That's dialects of English. Which obviously there is a difference like you said. But for people within the same area(example:Californians) to constantly stop each other and repeat what they say? Doesn't happen too often.

I see ASL as slang english, and SEE as standard english. I don't mean to offend anyone with my opinions.

I understand what you're saying about the accents, and there is accents even within the United States, but even still, Americans would understand Americans, Southerners may sound funny to Californians and vice versa, but we understand each other.

Dont mean to turn this into a loooooong discussion but didn't wanna leave you hanging.

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souggy

You realize you insulted a three-hundred years old language family that has its roots in the 16th century right? From the Old French Sign Language arose numerous languages such as German Sign Language, American Sign Language, French Sign Language, Quebec Sign Language, Irish Sign Language and so on. Not all sign languages derive from the Old LSF since most of them are language isolates, however... you did kinda insult the Spanish religious orders of the 16th and 17th century and as well as the founders who took that and ran with it in 18th century Paris.

Sign Exact English has only been around for what? Since early 1970s? And even then, most of its native users end up dropping the articles, prepositions, prefixes and suffixes in conversations. These would be your -ed, -ing to the point where it start to resemble Pidgin Sign Language. Which by the way, PSE is not a language, nor is it part of SEE but rather a result of what would happen when you mix English native-speakers with ASL and this is as old as ASL itself. My biggest gripe with SEE? It doesn't even truly represent the natural flow of English.

Trust me though, it is not hard to make the transition from SEE to ASL. Just drop the initalizing signs and its grammatical concepts then immerse yourself in ASL videos. Eventually you will get the feel of the language.

It appear to me that you would behove from taking a history lesson on Deaf culture from the time of the Israelites and philosophical Greeks until the present day to truly appreciate ASL or Deaf culture.

Anyway, the only thing that spoken English has over ASL? Mass media. I assure you that before movies (with sounds), records, radios and televisions were invented that English speakers struggled just as much people with ASL did. The observation that hearing people struggle with understanding dialects and accents is evident in the letters and manuscripts prior to the 1900s. I means why you think the French and German haven't standardized written languages with a complete rulebook until recent decades, which by the way English still haven't standardized the rules to their written languages yet. Give it some time, and you will see that the Internet-- along with videophones will "standardize" ASL as more and more of its signers are able to communicate with each others with a flick of the "on" button on their webcams.

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