Buffalo

I disagree with this segregation of deaf kids on ASL/Oral
Mishka Zena » Blog Archive » Segregation Between Deaf Kids at Deaf and Public Schools

__________________

It isn't that they can't see the solution. It is that they can't see the problem.
- Gilbert Chesterton

Deafness

__________________
This advertising will not be shown in this way to registered members.
Register your free account today and become a member on AllDeaf.com

Bottesini

That sounds like the extreme olden days when they sent oral failures off for manual training but gave no access until they failed orally first.

__________________
It's a joke Nathan!

faire_jour

It is happening at my daughter's school, for a very logical reason. Oral schools emphasis speaking and listening. Their end goal is mainstreaming the kids. They want the kids to interact with good language role models with age appropriate spoken language skills. You find those kids at a hearing school.

My daughter's school is completely self contained. ASL must be used for ALL interactions on campus.

How are you going to have those schools in the same building? It doesn't make sense. They should be seperate.

Buffalo

The oralists got it the other way around. If they want the deaf people to be part of the general population, they ought to teach hearing people sign language. The oralists really cut the deaf children from the education they deserved to have and the children's families. All that back in 1800's when the hearing aid is not even invented yet. They still got it backward even today. Deaf kids need to get a strong foundation of language and the best thing is ASL.

Why all the saying that the Deaf Schools is not really LRE when the oralists are the ones that cut us off. It is the money the school districts want to have. Greedy!

__________________

It isn't that they can't see the solution. It is that they can't see the problem.
- Gilbert Chesterton

jillio

Wow! This just leaves me shaking my head. This practice is so wrong on so many levels. It is frightening to me that those who are charged with the supervision of our children during the time that they spend at school would endorse such obviously bigoted and discriminatory practices. And it is even more frightening that there are parents of deaf children who actually demand and justify such a practice.

Bebonang

That is exactly what make me angry when I was in the mainstream public school with no sign language and not be able to understand what is going on in the hearing classrooms. Lipreading is no big help and I could not understand what the hearing teachers and students say in the classroom with no sign language interpreters and no notetakers. It was hell back then during the late 1950 to late 1960 (both elementary and high school). Now I see what the OP is saying that here we go again back to the old days and I don't like that. I am very disappointed with faire_jour for saying that and I believe that both ASL Deaf students and Oral Deaf students should work together on using the sign language like LQS or ASL or BSL. I am trying to make sense of why AGBell groups and the public schools trying to have an oral for the CI, hard of hearing and Deaf with no access to help them understand what is being said in the classroom. It is really toture or to put the child in risk. No wonder when Shel90 had to take the oral Deaf students who are in delay had to start over so that they can understand what is being taught in the classroom. It is really better to have a Deaf program for all Deaf kids whether they have hearing aid or CI.

__________________
I HAVE BEEN DEAF SINCE BIRTH, AND IT IS STILL AWESOME TO BE . <Deaf> <very happy>

faire_jour

I'm not saying it is right or wrong, but that it makes sense from both perspectives.

shel90

I forsee a social divide between the two groups in the future.

__________________
Shel~

"A child educated only at school is an uneducated child." -George Santayana

shel90

Yes, it is a shame. The pychological effects are bound to be negative, no question.

__________________
Shel~

"A child educated only at school is an uneducated child." -George Santayana

jillio

Absolutely. The social effects as well. And from an inclusive, holistic perspective, it makes absolutely no sense what-so-ever.
It is, in fact, one of the most exlusionary practices we have seen since we isolated the deaf in mental institutions for no reason other than the fact that they were deaf.

dreama

(shakes head)
This is really very sad that this sort of thing still goes on. When I was growing up you had 'Mount deaf school' for signing deaf but they didn't even take any qualifications at the end. You also had the PHU where I went to where you could in thery take qualifications but many didn't.

__________________
I speak for those who cannot speak for themselves.
http://www.fightfoca.com/

rockdrummer

In one part of that story there sure was a lot of hearsay. A friend said that it was the request of a parent of a CI kid to the child's IEP team. I can't imagine that an IEP team of a child at a deaf school would condone such a request. If they did then I would agree that it sets a bad precident and should be considered discrimination. What doesn't sound right to me is why wouldn't the parent just send the kid to a mainstream school. I mean if you don't want your kid to be around people that sign, they why send them to a deaf school? I 'm sorry but it just doesn't have the ring of truth to me.

Does anyone know which deaf school is supposedly segregating?

jillio

Agreed, RD. But there have been parents that seem to think that they have the right to change the deaf school rather than do what makes sense, and change the child's placement.

Bebonang

You have to remember that not all Deaf schools have ASL in their classrooms, maybe in their homeroom and dormitory (I don't know) and they do act like in the mainstream school. Only very few Deaf schools have ASL in their classrooms. I have never attended a Deaf school only the hearing school that I was mainstreaming without an ASL. I learned from some of the Deaf people that attended the Deaf school like Belleville in Ontario, Canada or other places in United States. I was shocked thinking that All Deaf schools have ASL or sign language in their classrooms. Not true. That is what make me very angry and sad that we are not having a Deaf program in a Deaf Education for both Deaf schools and regular hearing mainstream schools

That is why I do not like to have to repeat history all over again saying that we are not allowing to have ASL or to have an ASL interpreters in our classrooms whether regular, Deaf schools and colleges that have Deaf program. This needs to stop discrimination and oppression that we can not have them. The hearing people still want us to be like them over and over. They expect us to lipread, to hear their words with hearing aids or CI, like listening which is impossible. That is why we need to be together on using both oral and sign language like ASL, LQS, BSL or any other sign language in the whole world in our everyday lifestyle. This is what AGBell group want very much to banish all kinds of sign languages for the Deaf even with hearing aids and CI so that we can use Spoken English only. It does not matter as ASL or any kind of sign language is our first language and then spoken Enlish is our second language. We need both no matter what. We just can not get through the AGBell group`s brain to understand how we feel about using ASL in the classrooms or any other public places that we need to access to using ASL interpreters. AGBell group does not understand us at all and is trying very hard to banish every way, shape and form. That is why I am angry about this. No segregation, period.

__________________
I HAVE BEEN DEAF SINCE BIRTH, AND IT IS STILL AWESOME TO BE . <Deaf> <very happy>

kashveera

Well, I went to a public school that segregated the deaf from the hearing, but that was logical, because in the classroom we were focussing on getting our speech right along with actually learning the syllabus.

We were then mainstreamed with everyone else for other classes, such as physical education and library classes, but then, it was good, because then we got to practice our speech.

Our little deaf unit, believed as Professor Carel du Toit did: Teach a deaf child to talk, and the child will talk back to you.

I believe in that system.

__________________
Be a first-rate version of yourself, and not a second-rate version of anyone else!!

jillio

While I understand what you are saying, it would be a more appropriate sentiment if it were, "Teach a deaf child to communicate, and they will communicate with the world." or "Teach a deaf child according to their strengths, and their weaknesses will fade away." Or "Instill a value of learning in a deaf child, and they will reach for the moon. Chances are, they will at least grab hold of a star." How about, "Provide the environment that accentuates a deaf child's capabilities, and they will be well adjusted and successful." Or this one: "Show a deaf child that their lack of hearing does not make them different, and they will have the self confidence and security to integrate into the wider society." Or, "Teach hearing children to be accepting of others, and the world will be a much better place in the future for deaf and hearing alike."

shel90

That system is flawed for a majority of deaf children because too often deaf children miss a lot of what is being said to them which results in misunderstanding and many deaf children were unable to develop speech skills no matter how many times they were "talked" to.

__________________
Shel~

"A child educated only at school is an uneducated child." -George Santayana

jillio

Exactly. We need to stop concentrating on speaking, and concentrate on effective communication. It matters not how a child communicates. It matters only that they can do so effectively.

deafdyke

Or actual CONTENT! Sure a kid can be able to go " boo be bah" really well.....but does that mean they actually LEARNED anything in their oral program?

rockdrummer

I just don't understand why this "deaf advocate" would not be willing to reveal the name of the deaf school that is doing such an injustice. It makes me suspicious. I am somewhat of an intelligent man and I'm sorry but I can't draw a fair conclusion based on hearsay and a lack of facts. Additionally, if this is in fact discrimination, then why isn't this "advocate" doing something about enforcing existing discrimination laws? Just posting hearsay on a blog IMHO is not advocating.

Then you also have to consider what some deaf folks say about the programs they have been in and that they are happy they went down the path they did. Kashveera in this thread is only one case in point. I personally can't ignore the success stories I hear from folks on this board and I also can't ignore what I see in real life.

faire_jour

Again, I think it makes sense. Oral kids go to a school where they have manistreaming opportunities, ASL students go where they have a campus on which everyone is expected to use ASL. Those would be two different places.

rockdrummer

I am not an expert but to me effective communication for a deaf person in a world where not everybody will use sign language would come in many forms . The ability to sign / read / write / speak / and speachread should all be part of the toolbox.

rockdrummer

Even if it's a minority of deaf kids that system works for, is it anybody's right to deny them access to a system that works for them and gives them the ability to communicate with the world around them? I am not saying you are denying anything but just posing the general question.

shel90

I have always believed in a full toolbox. I dont believe in denying any deaf child of anything which is why I am against the oral-only philosophy cuz it doesnt include ASL in the toolbox.

__________________
Shel~

"A child educated only at school is an uneducated child." -George Santayana

jillio

Can't disagree with that. I have always advocated for a full toolbox approach.

jillio

Of course not. Anyone has the freedom to choose whatever system they believe is working. Those who want to choose an oral approach have the opportunity. Those that want to choose a mainstreamed approach with a terp have that opportunity. Those that want to choose a Bi-Bi approach have that opportunity. Those that want a TC approach have that opportunity. I don't think that has really ever been an issue. I think the issue becomes just because it works for a minority, should it be the model for the majority?

KarissaMann05

*nodding* My thought excatly.

It'd seen done and it is so slim benefit, I say!

=/

__________________
"Just think of it as I'm rebelling against your rebellion."

DURAY

there is no right or wrong way. there is the deaf school; the mainstreamed school; and the local neighborhood school. The deaf school (MRE) have everything including the socializations. the mainstreamed school (MRE/LRE), ususally a school in the middle of the country for all deaf kids to be bused in; have everything including some socialization. The local school (LRE) , which most special education radicals and advocates prefers, but they don't understand deaf education, which is not taught in the 99% of all special education classes in our wonderful grad school of education.

jillio

LRE actually stand for "Least Restrictive Environment" and is part of IDEA. While that is often interpreted to mean the child's home school, it doesn't always mean the child's home school.

smithtr

I was school grade 1 - 7.. I know public school is oral. I think so public intepreter is english. I was school high grade 9 to 12.. i learn lots of ASl I'm happy.

__________________
Keep Positive change your future best life