Paris614

Hello everyone! This is my first post here, and I just want some general feedback or opinions.

I am in an interpreting program an at upstate New York community college (Ulster County Community College). It is a certificate program (not by the teachers choice, the college won't hire any more teachers to move it up to an Associates program).

I recently withdrew from the program. I had a lot of different reasons why. First, the program is taught in PSE. Now, before I atteneded Ulster Community, I was at Columbia-Greene Community, which is up the hudson river about 45 mintues. We were taught ASL there, by an AMAZING teacher (sometimes a little intense), but still great. I had A's in both ASL 1 and 2. I think we learned...hmmm...maybe about 2500 words..mostly grammar with time, SVOO, OSVO, etc. Because my I wanted further pursue my interest in Deaf Culture/ASL...I went to the closest college that had such program.

At Ulster Community college, we learned new words out of a dictionary. I thought, God, how boring. I remember taking my first test, and she was using words like "and, it, is, were, will, etc." and I was like HUH?? I thought "is" was a form of "insect", and I was all sorts of confused. I read before the program was in PSE, but I e-mailed the teacher and asked her if there is anything I should study or catch up on before I enter the class, room, she said no, I should be fine. I went from 100's on test to low 70's. Now, this teacher is also a speech pathologist during the day, and then teaches at night.

The local Deaf community here in the Hudson Valley has less the desireable things to say about her. There was another ASL/English Interpreting program in Poughkeepsie, but was stopped because the teacher left for a bigger college (and more money).

I had a lot of friends in the class at Ulster, but I recently got into a debate with one, and she said she loved PSE because words are her life, and that ASL is very confusing and she doesnt like it.

Now, the teacher DOES teach ASL, but not until Sign 4! (there are 5 courses, the fifth being Conversational Sign Language). But, she kind of incorporates SEE words into ASL...I don't know, its very confusing. Is this right? One night...I was using the word "receive" in a topic/comment sentence, and I did it the "ASL" way, she said I was wrong. (This teacher even went to Gallaudet!) She instead does it with R's on top of each other, then, move towards your shoulder. I mean, is that ASL or what is it?

On Wednesday nights, some of the Deaf community here (Kingston, NY) get together at the local Barnes & Noble just to kind of get together and talk about different things. I entered into a relationship with one of the Deaf people, and he told me that he doesn't use ASL on purpose, because (besides me) none of the other other students that come for their internship, or whatever, will not understand if he uses ASL. I told him don't do that, do what you want, if they don't understand, oh well. (I don't know if thats the nice thing to say). Between us, we use ASL, and I've learned more in a month, then over 3 years of studying, lol!

I am leaving in august to go either University of Southern Maine(for Interpreting), or Temple University (in Philadelphia, for speech therapy) I have not decided which yet.

So I guess I just want some opinions on this, and if you think PSE should be taught to college students.

thanks for reading my ramblings, but when I got into the debate with my friend, it just kind of irritated me.

Have a good day!

Deafness

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dreama

ASL is preferable but any sign systems are better then no signing at all.

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Bottesini

I am surprised. I have only ever seen ASL classes.

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shel90

Same here...*scratching head*

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ASLGAL

What is the certificate in?

It doesn't sound like it can be in ASL the way you describe the class. I was confused just hearing about it through your post. I can't imagine how the students are handling it.

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DeafDoc1

I've seen classes that were labelled ASL but in fact taught more PSE. Depends on the skill and background of the instructor, I think.

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Paris614

The courses are labeled as

Beginning Sign 1
Beginning Sign 2

Intermediate Sign 1
Intermediate Sign 2

Advanced Conversation Sign Language

AND on the college's website it says the course is is Signed English (pidgin sign). When I applied it didn't say what sign system was being taught. The reason why its taught is because the teacher says there is more of a vocabulary choice within SEE/PSE systems rather than ASL. She is a speech pathologist and works with a lot of kids, so maybe she is more comfortable teaching signed english?

Babyblue

I always thought, they just taught ASL classes!

Bottesini

I looked up the website and I could not find any mention that it is Signing Exact English or PSE at all.

Could you show a link to the place on the school's website where that is stated?

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JClarke

I am stratching my head as well. But to what I think, they used the PSE concept for the english grammar to give them the view to communicate more easier for the deaf people, no? I understand FROM my perspective (mind you, I am an Australian but I use ASL not PSE) and most of the people I talk with uses ASL most of the time.

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Paris614

SUNY Ulster - Course Descriptions

SUNY Ulster - Course Descriptions

SUNY Ulster - Course Descriptions

SUNY Ulster - Course Schedule

Bottesini

I am surprised again as it does say so and it seems to be for actual college credit.

I guess just be glad you will be transferring elsewhere.

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It's a joke Nathan!

OpheliaSpeaks

I am in an ITP and it is taught in ASL - strong ASL. The only time there is PSE is when I am in the room and a hearing teacher is presenting since I am hoh and need the sim-com to help fill in the blanks.

This is quite a bizarre program. No wonder we have less-than-certified interpreters out there working.

My theory is that people can't take the time or energy to learn ASL - an actual language. They would rather equate it to English as much as possible because that's what's easiest for them. Now some deaf prefer PSE or SEE, but I'm not talking about them. I am talking about the hearing people that learn PSE or SEE because ASL is "too hard". And a speech pathologist teaching an interpreting program?? Ugh. No comment.

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Frisky Feline

Interesting! I did remember few teachers were using PSE in the classroom in late 1970's. They surely messed up some of us with our languages in general. No wonder. ha

Daredevel7

Is it because interpreting tends to be PSE? It seems like if you want to interpret a long monologue into ASL, that's really hard because you have to listen to the whole sentence before you can translate it, while keeping track of the next sentence. That's why interpreters do PSE because they can translate almost immediately.

jillio

I have a question: **jillio waving hand in the air**

Are you getting foreign language credit for these courses? I

f so, teaching PSE does not fulfill the foreign language requirement. Only ASL will do that. PSE is not a recognized language separate from English.

If this, however, is part of an IT program, and do not fulfill foreign language requirements needed for graduation, then I can see why PSE is introduced, because as a terp, you will run into some deaf that sign PSE.

Another question: Is this an accredited program? I'm guessing not.

jillio

Ah, found it. This is not a degreed program, just a certificate that can be obtained in conjunction with another associate's degree.

Program Description
This 32-33-credit certificate program is a response to society's need to accommodate the special requirements of a disadvantaged population. The program will provide students with a basis upon which to build additional interpretation skills. Four classes in Sign Language, together with the Introduction to Deaf Culture and a field placement in sign language interpreting, are the key components of the program. Also required are courses in communications, English, psychology, and early childhood education.

The program can be completed in two semesters; it may also be pursued on a part-time basis. Students who have completed some of the liberal arts classes for another program will qualify for the certificate by taking the additional components of the Sign Language Interpreting program.

This certificate program is designed to fit within SUNY Ulster's Associate in Arts degree program in Liberal Arts and Sciences: Humanities and Social Science. The program can also serve as a foundation for further educational pursuits.

SUNY Ulster - Sign Language Interpreting


It is intended to be a beginning point. Not an end in and of itself.

PowerON

Well, I'm into PSE always and who gonna understand me?

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jillio

People getting a certificate from Ultster!

Babyblue

Mountain Man

That is technically correct in that there are more discrete signs, but more isn't necessarily better. The hardest thing for English speakers to wrap their heads around is that ASL is a conceptual rather than a literal language, so it doesn't need a huge vocabulary like some other languages. For instance the sentence "I gave the cup to him" can be signed in ASL as "HIM CUP me-GIVE-TO-him", which is three signs -- or possibly four if you include the sign for ME, though it's not necessary and perhaps even incorrect depending on who you ask -- whereas a PSE signer will sign every single word, so a total of six signs, but in terms of visual expression, ASL is more fluid, eloquent, and in my opinion much easier to understand.

Paris614

Oh, yes, it is considered a foreign language for students who aren't even in the certificate program. I understand that I will need to know PSE for that just in case interpreting job where PSE is used. I just couldn't stand learning and studying out a dictionary...boooring

Bottesini

Me! Me! Me!!

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It's a joke Nathan!

Bottesini

Not!

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ASLGAL

I guess the college has covered themselves by inserting the disclaimer language, I do not see how anyone graduating from that ITP will be prepared to take an Interpreters Test.


wonder what they mean by that and where would they place someone?

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Bottesini

They must intend to send them out half to me and half to PowerOn.

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It's a joke Nathan!

ASLGAL

It probably wouldn't be fair to the students (especially the way the classes wer described) to place them somewhere interpreting with only a certificate in that program.
I feel for the poor students, the D/deaf are known for straight forward/point blank honesty and I imagine the "I'm your interpreter from the Ulster ITP" bubble would be bust pretty quickly.
Granted I am only going by what has been posted.

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"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"
~ Edmund Burke~

"When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser"
~ Socrates ~

jillio

Well said!

jillio

Not according to their website. Their website lists available foreign languages as French, German, and Spanish. And their site lists the sign classes only as "sign language" not as ASL. These classes would not transfer to a 4 year university as a foreign language credit.

I would suggest that you try to find a school that has an accredited ITP if you are truly interested in that field. And go for nothing less than an associate's degree.

jillio

Unfortuantely, they would probably place them in the closest school district as an elementary level educational terp. I've seen it happen all too often.

And I agree. No way this program could prepare someone to pass the certification exam. I wonder if any of their certificate holders have even attempted it, and if so, what their pass rate is. Of course, without being an accredited program, they probably don't even keep track of those numbers.

I feel sorry for the students, as well, that are paying good money thinking they are being trained for terping.