jillio

I don't know how much plainer I can say it. There are methods that have been shown, empircally and anecdotally, to provide the greatest benefit for the majority. As far as all deaf kids are concerned, those methods certainly aren't going to impede all deaf kids. However, there are methods that do impede deaf kids cognitive, educational, psycho-social, and linguistic development.

Please read my words as written, and try not to twist them to your agenda.

Deafness

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jillio

Thank you, Frisky. Somehow, it always seems that someone must bring any discussion to the CI.

faire_jour

But to some, that isn't good enough.

How much sign?
Does the parent simcom or do they have to do straight ASL?
Does ASL have to be first or can both languages be learned at the same time?
Is "baby signing" enough if your child is doing well with spoken language?
ASL? or is CASE good enough?
Do they have to go to a voice off ASL school, or can they be mainstreamed with an interpreter?
What if the child develops spoken language and chooses to start dropping signs?

faire_jour

Since when is asking for clarification "twisting words to (my) agenda"?

jillio

When you attempt to insert meaning and wording that was never there.

Cheri

Okayyy tell me one thing, how come oral, total communication and cued speech are still around as of today if those programs fails the vast majority of deaf individuals? You've heard stories by each deaf individuals their advantages and disadvantages in each program they were educated in, not all of them experienced the same results. Many do, many don't.

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Frisky Feline

I understand. this isn't what my thread is about.
I just only want to see how many do the hearing parents willing to learn ASL to communciate their kids. This thread is a simple question that doesnt involve with schooling or CI or Spoken language or so on.


Perfect example, gil eastman's quote “Just a thought….it is interesting to see that DEAF people can function in the hearing world very well while hearing people cannot function well in the DEAF world. “ -

that's what it makes me wonder.

jillio

Perhaps that is the biggest problem.

faire_jour

I asked a question

jillio

And your question was phrased so as to insert wording and meaning that was never there.

faire_jour

I agree.

When parents who ARE using signing are being told that they are still wrong because they aren't using the "right" kind of sign, or that their child isn't in the "right" school, or that they "must" turn off their voice, or that they are evil because they also want speech, that it not ok.

jillio

They are still around because there are still those parents who insist on attempting to provide for their deaf child in a manner that mimics a hearing child. They are also still around because there are those that refuse to see the empirical findings simply to promote their job security. Oral has only seen a resurgence since certain surgical procedures have been popularized by hearing parents, and used as a justification for not providing visual means of communication for their child. TC is on its way out, and has been for some time. It is rarely used as a methodology by those trained specifically in deaf ed. Cued speech died 40 years ago, and is only now seeing a resurgence in response, once again, to certain surgical procedures. A group of people saw a way to make money off a dead methodology.

Cheri

How did she twisted your words to fit her own agenda, she did asked for clarification.

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jillio

Where exactly, are you seeing that?

jillio

Excellent quote, Frisky.

jillio

Just go back and read the posts, and you will see that no where did I say anything remotely close to what Faire Jour is assuming was said.

Bottesini

Miss Kat's Deaf journey

Perhaps here?

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faire_jour

Everywhere.

People here say that TC should be abandoned and that all Deaf schools should be voice off ASL. They say that SEE is useless (Shel said that earlier in this thread) and that simcom is nothing but a bad model for both languages.

Signing isn't good enough. Signing the *RIGHT* way, is what matters.

jillio

Ahhh....yes. Funny how the objectivity gets completely lost, isn't it?

faire_jour

That post is about you, and you know it.

Lighthouse77

If you asked my mom, she did not learn ASL nor did anyone in my family.

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jillio

Again, you need to start reading what is written. Obviously, what you are seeing is not what is really being said. Shel did not say SEE was useless. She said it was useful as a teaching tool, not as a means to language development. No one here has ever said that all deaf schools should be voice off ASL. What they have said is that Bi-Bi schools provide the greatest access to academic material for a child that is not hearing, and that oracy is a factor in Bi-Bi. And Sim-Com is a poor model for both languages, as it does not provide a proper model of either ASL or English. That is simply a fact that has been substantiated across several disciplines.

faire_jour

So, TC is a good educational philosophy? SimCom should be encouraged? How about SEE?

Cheri

Again she DID ASKED if that is what you're saying, that is asking for clarification, not assuming. You can't even admit your wrongs, go figures.

Not everyone is going to understand each others, why can't you be a bit more kind and repeat what you said instead of making it so difficult.

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jillio

No, TC is not the best educational philosophy, for any number of reasons that have all been identified any number of times on this forum and in research findings. SEE may be useful as a teaching tool. However, it is not a language, it is an MCE. It is not arranged to be processed visually, and therefore, is confusing in syntax and concept. SimCom, as I have stated, provides for a confusing linguistic environment, so I would not encourage it unless I also wanted to encourage misunderstanding.

jillio

Again, Cheri, go back and read the posts.

faire_jour

So, signing is not encouraged, ASL is.

jillio

How in the world do you reach that conclusion?

faire_jour

Careful, if you side with me even for a second, they might take away your Deaf badge.

faire_jour

You just said that SEE is not appropriate. So, if a parent chooses to sign SEE instead of ASL, they are still wrong.