Oral school - Page 19

faire_jour · 05-03-2009, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

I use both with my son. Use ASL with voice off and then sometimes use spoken English without signing. Can u do that? Not as an insult but just asking if u are able to do that?

Of course we do that. But she is literally in silence all day at school. It is not a good enviroment for a child who is learning to use her auditory skills. She should have the opportunity to use both.

Lighthouse77 · 05-03-2009, 04:08 PM

I have always used spoken language with my mother, it was my sole communication (nothing else).. We never talked much. I love her very much, and I miss her (she died of breast cancer) but I think we would have had a close relationship if she learned some signing. i was too exhausted from lipreading that I didn't feel like talking. I would just come home and go to my room.

**shel90** · 05-03-2009, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

Of course we do that. But she is literally in silence all day at school. It is not a good enviroment for a child who is learning to use her auditory skills. She should have the opportunity to use both.

What about asking for a Spoken English class during Language Arts time?

**shel90** · 05-03-2009, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lighthouse77

I have always used spoken language with my mother, it was my sole communication (nothing else).. We never talked much. I love her very much, and I miss her (she died of breast cancer) but I think we would have had a close relationship if she learned some signing. i was too exhausted from lipreading that I didn't feel like talking.

I agree..my conversations with my family members are not as in-depth as my conversations with my brother are.

Unless I am with them on an one-on-one only basis, then we can have in-depth conversations but if more than a few family members are present...forget about having it.

I finally got to know my 19 year old brother on a much deeper level for the first time in my life because he came here from AZ and we had the opportunity to be alone without any other hearing people around us to interrupt us. It was bittersweet.

faire_jour · 05-03-2009, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

What about asking for a Spoken English class during Language Arts time?

They have told me that their philosophy does NOT allow spoken language other than in a pull out speech session, and then it is still SIM COM.

**shel90** · 05-03-2009, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

They have told me that their philosophy does NOT allow spoken language other than in a pull out speech session, and then it is still SIM COM.

It is not SIM COM if the signs are dropped. Hmmm...in my opinion, BiBi can allow for spoken English in some classes when appropriate but no SIM-COM.

faire_jour · 05-03-2009, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

It is not SIM COM if the signs are dropped. Hmmm...in my opinion, BiBi can allow for spoken English in some classes when appropriate but no SIM-COM.

The SLP signs all during speech.

**shel90** · 05-03-2009, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

The SLP signs all during speech.

Really? I wouldnt reccomend that but to each to its own. Then, again, I am not certified in speech therapy so my opinion is probably invalid in this case.

Lighthouse77 · 05-03-2009, 04:17 PM

I hate to say this, but if she keep on being silent and you feel you have keep forcing her to speak, She may end up using ASL anyway at the end. My sister is just like me as far as communication. She just stopped talking to us and started using ASL .She have cutted off all tie with us because she can't communicate with us anymore.... except the computer.

She is very bright and has a bachleor degree in psychology from Liberty (and a associate degree in a private college near VMI) ... but was unable to use her degree because her poor phone skills and other communication skills. That's when she decided " the heck with hearing world, I'm joining the deaf world "

faire_jour · 05-03-2009, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

Really? I wouldnt reccomend that but to each to its own.

This is a terrible thing. I am fighting against it. Our SLP is terrible.

faire_jour · 05-03-2009, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lighthouse77

I hate to say this, but if she keep on being silent and you feel you have keep forcing her to speak, She may end up using ASL anyway at the end. My sister is just like me as far as communication. She just stopped talking to us and started using ASL .She have cutted off all tie with us because she can't communicate with us anymore.... except the computer.

She has a bachleor degree in psychology from Liberty... but was unable to use her degree because her poor phone skills. That's when she decided " the heck with hearing world, I'm joining the deaf world "

Who are you talking to or about?

**shel90** · 05-03-2009, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lighthouse77

I hate to say this, but if she keep on being silent and you feel you have keep forcing her to speak, She may end up using ASL anyway at the end. My sister is just like me as far as communication. She just stopped talking to us and started using ASL .She have cutted off all tie with us because she can't communicate with us anymore.... except the computer.

She has a bachleor degree in psychology from Liberty... but was unable to use her degree because her poor phone skills. That's when she decided " the heck with hearing world, I'm joining the deaf world "

Wow! I didnt know u have a deaf sister!

I used to have the same feelings but as I get older, I realize by being agressive with hearing people, I get my needs met most of the time.

Lighthouse77 · 05-03-2009, 04:21 PM

I'm telling you my experience. My sister was the silent but very smart type. mom would forced her to speak all the time.

She ended up flushing everything she learned concerning oralism down the toilet.

I am glad you are using ASL as well as spoken too because I think your daughter will be very contented with her life. but please relax about it .

Lighthouse77 · 05-03-2009, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

Wow! I didnt know u have a deaf sister!

I used to have the same feelings but as I get older, I realize by being agressive with hearing people, I get my needs met most of the time.

yeah, but she is 7 years older than me. She was long gone by the time I go to jr. high school. in fact, I have 2 brothers and 2 sisters.

faire_jour · 05-03-2009, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lighthouse77

I'm telling you my experience. My sister was the silent but very smart type. mom would forced her to speak all the time.

She ended up flushing everything she learned concerning oralism down the toilet.

I am glad you are using ASL as well as spoken too because I think your daughter will be very contented with her life. but please relax about it.

No. I won't relax. Being a parent is a long, hard job. I chose to have a child, it is my job to make sure she gets everything she needs.

Lighthouse77 · 05-03-2009, 04:29 PM

you should still live your life to the fullest.. Pick a day where your daughter is free to chose the type of communication she want all day long.

faire_jour · 05-03-2009, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lighthouse77

you should still live your life to the fullest.. Pick a day where your daughter is free to chose the type of communication she want all day long.

She chooses that all day everyday. Her communication is never restricted. If she signs, I sign, if she voices, I voice. If she tells me to sign and she voices, fine. She signs all through her AVT sessions, and voices at school. I would never ever tell her how she has to communicate.

Lighthouse77 · 05-03-2009, 04:34 PM

well geez, and here I thought you were just like my own mother but really, you have given her a choice. good for you.

faire_jour · 05-03-2009, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lighthouse77

well geez, and here I thought you were just like my own mother but really, you have given her a choice. good for you.

I have been trying to explain that to people here, but as soon as they see the word "oral" or "speech", they get all angry and judgemental.

Lighthouse77 · 05-03-2009, 04:41 PM

well, I wonder how much you let her use an interpreter for science class and such? you see, I had to sit there in science with only copying notes from the board. I've always felt that I would have done alot better taking class from the internet than copying notes from the board.

faire_jour · 05-03-2009, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lighthouse77

well, I wonder how much you let her use an interpreter for science class and such? you see, I had to sit there in science with only copying notes from the board. I felt that I would do alot better taking class from the internet than copying notes from the board.

She is in a bi-bi school for the Deaf. All of school is conducted in voice off ASL. If she were ever to be mainstreamed, it would be with an interpreter.

(Unless this is addressed to someone else)

jillio · 05-03-2009, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daredevel7

It's funny. It seems like oral deaf kids shouldn't post here about their experiences because it's somehow twisted to "All deaf kids should do oralism" or "oralism is the best":

or some assume if we post here, we must be unhappy.

mm... yea

Yea talk about judging:.... see the bolded below.

Isn't that a bit narcisstic?

Seems like there's plenty of judging on oral deaf kids. We aren't even promoting oral-only, only sharing experiences. But I guess you guys want to keep our mouths shut....? Any reason why?

Lately, I've been hanging out with more deaf people and I see a lot of narcissism in the deaf community (both in real life and on AD). People feel very strongly about how a deaf one is raised. I understand people have their own thoughts on which method is better and they can't help it. However, what disturbs me greatly is not so much their opinions, but rather that their opinions actually affect their behavior towards someone. I find this wrong, especially in the deaf community. In reality, there really aren't that many deaf people. We don't need this "The Great Divide" crap.

Not narcisstic at all. In fact, I can back that very statement through research.

If you will go back and look at your shared experiences, you fill find that in sharing you don't fail to include a statement regarding your perceived inferiority of deaf schools, or a statement regarding how much more "advanced" or how much higher your IQ was. That is narcisstic. And it also serves to divide much more than you realize.

jillio · 05-03-2009, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

This is a good argument for better amplification. The better they hear, the easier it is to speak.

Again with the focus on speech. One can be fluent in English and never speak a single word. The important thing is to be fluent in English.

Actually the important thing is to be fluent in an L1 language so it can be transferred to the learning of an L2 language in order to increase literacy.

jillio · 05-03-2009, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

My friend's 2 deaf boys dont get ASL exposure as they are in a TC program but they get it from their aunt whenever they visit her. I spent a good amount of time last Sat chatting with them...they both were able to communicate using ASL without a problem. They arent getting it daily that's for sure. Children are amazing how quickly they acquire language. An adult probably wouldnt become fluent by just 20 mins a week.

In fact, because of their environment, and their exposure to both a PSE and ASL, they are no doubt able to code switch quite easily in conversation, depending upon whom they are communicating with.

jillio · 05-03-2009, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

I often SIM-COM ASL. It is bad english, but it gives access for sound and ASL. Not saying it is right, just that it is possible.

Oh, and why is it assumed that because the teachers are hearing that they can't be using ASL? My daughter's teacher is hearing and her ASL is amazing.

If you are sim comming, you aren't using ASL.

**shel90** · 05-03-2009, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Not narcisstic at all. In fact, I can back that very statement through research.

If you will go back and look at your shared experiences, you fill find that in sharing you don't fail to include a statement regarding your perceived inferiority of deaf schools, or a statement regarding how much more "advanced" or how much higher your IQ was. That is narcisstic. And it also serves to divide much more than you realize.

Too often deaf signers who grew up going to Deaf schools have been treated as inferior which is a feeding ground for the attitudes that Daredevel speak of. Hearing society is usually responsible for creating these kinds of attitudes within the Deaf community. Sure, I dont like it but I totally understand where they come from. All of their lives they have been judged unfairly because they dont have speech skills. Even myself who have good speech skills still get judged unfairly so it can take a toll on one's perspective on society.

jillio · 05-03-2009, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

So ignore the child's language needs at home? If the need ASL at school, they need it at home. I don't know if it isn't the case in other people's homes, but in ours, parents are the primary teachers for children their whole life. We do science experiments, go to the zoo, talk about the stars...etc.

Plus, if we say "no signing at home" wouldn't that make her think that we don't value ASL or that it is "lower" or somehow less important than spoken language? Is that what we should be teaching her??

Then why the switch to an oral focus? You can easily reverse your statement as well. If they need ASL at home, they most certainly need it at school.

**Bottesini** · 05-03-2009, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

So ignore the child's language needs at home? If the need ASL at school, they need it at home. I don't know if it isn't the case in other people's homes, but in ours, parents are the primary teachers for children their whole life. We do science experiments, go to the zoo, talk about the stars...etc.

Plus, if we say "no signing at home" wouldn't that make her think that we don't value ASL or that it is "lower" or somehow less important than spoken language? Is that what we should be teaching her??

Who said no ASL? Why not a daily lesson time for spoken language?
I am the last person who would say such a thing as no signing at home.

jillio · 05-03-2009, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

Of course we do that. But she is literally in silence all day at school. It is not a good enviroment for a child who is learning to use her auditory skills. She should have the opportunity to use both.

She can't possibly be in silence all day. She may be in a signing environment, but the last I checked, a signing environment is far from silent.

**shel90** · 05-03-2009, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

She can't possibly be in silence all day. She may be in a signing environment, but the last I checked, a signing environment is far from silent.

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05-03-2009, 04:08 PM	#542 (permalink)
Lighthouse77 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 4,167	I have always used spoken language with my mother, it was my sole communication (nothing else).. We never talked much. I love her very much, and I miss her (she died of breast cancer) but I think we would have had a close relationship if she learned some signing. i was too exhausted from lipreading that I didn't feel like talking. I would just come home and go to my room. __________________ Good thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from.

05-03-2009, 04:17 PM	#549 (permalink)
Lighthouse77 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 4,167	I hate to say this, but if she keep on being silent and you feel you have keep forcing her to speak, She may end up using ASL anyway at the end. My sister is just like me as far as communication. She just stopped talking to us and started using ASL .She have cutted off all tie with us because she can't communicate with us anymore.... except the computer. She is very bright and has a bachleor degree in psychology from Liberty (and a associate degree in a private college near VMI) ... but was unable to use her degree because her poor phone skills and other communication skills. That's when she decided " the heck with hearing world, I'm joining the deaf world " __________________ Good thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from.

05-03-2009, 04:21 PM	#553 (permalink)
Lighthouse77 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 4,167	I'm telling you my experience. My sister was the silent but very smart type. mom would forced her to speak all the time. She ended up flushing everything she learned concerning oralism down the toilet. I am glad you are using ASL as well as spoken too because I think your daughter will be very contented with her life. but please relax about it . __________________ Good thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from.

05-03-2009, 04:29 PM	#556 (permalink)
Lighthouse77 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 4,167	you should still live your life to the fullest.. Pick a day where your daughter is free to chose the type of communication she want all day long. __________________ Good thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from.

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05-03-2009, 04:34 PM	#558 (permalink)
Lighthouse77 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 4,167	well geez, and here I thought you were just like my own mother but really, you have given her a choice. good for you. __________________ Good thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from.

05-03-2009, 04:41 PM	#560 (permalink)
Lighthouse77 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 4,167	well, I wonder how much you let her use an interpreter for science class and such? you see, I had to sit there in science with only copying notes from the board. I've always felt that I would have done alot better taking class from the internet than copying notes from the board. __________________ Good thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from.

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