Lighthouse77

I guess that's due to being oralism for 32 years (so far) and no social life.

ASL should never be a sign of not intelligent enough to go to a good school. In fact, it should be available for advanced students (they should have a terp that will interpret for them in advance schools). And being oralism should NEVER be the only way to get better education. Oralism should only work like foreign language if deaf choose to communicate people that way.

__________________
Good thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from.

Deafness

__________________
This advertising will not be shown in this way to registered members.
Register your free account today and become a member on AllDeaf.com

faire_jour

A person can not learn to be a fluent user without exposure to a language. Expecting a child to learn spoken language without access and opportunity is absurd.

It is the same with ASL. Would we expect a person to learn ASL in 20 minutes a week?

Lighthouse77

I am sorry, but even to this day, I am not fluent user of spoken language. I don't think it really make the difference. I've seen deaf people who sign who speak a whole better than I can.. and much more successful than I am. I'm envy them.

__________________
Good thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from.

shel90

I know many deaf people who grew up at Deaf schools who are fluent in Spoken English as well. How am I fluent in spoken English if I cant hear the language around me? By reading, reading and more reading. My deaf friends told me that was how it was for them despite by being in a signing environment most of the time. U keep saying it is impossible but look around u on AD..there r many members who grew up with sign language and yet were able to develop oral skills but best of all, at least 99% of them can read and write to communicate with u and I.

__________________
"Wine improves with age. The older I get, the better I like it."

--- Anonymous

faire_jour

I said spoken English, not written.

How does one learn a language that they are not exposed to? Would you recommend a child getting ASL lessons, 20 minutes a week? Of course not, they would never become fluent users. Don't you agree?

Lighthouse77

She mean fluent spoken English. If she didn't read, she would have just spoke exactly what she can understand. For me, If I didn't read. I would speak exactly what I hear.

"i ow r you?" (hi, how are you?) by reading, I know that h sound is suppose to be there. Plus, some dictionary teach you how to pronounce some words. First you learn the basic from your speech therapy and the rest is up to you.

__________________
Good thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from.

faire_jour

This is a good argument for better amplification. The better they hear, the easier it is to speak.

shel90

My friend's 2 deaf boys dont get ASL exposure as they are in a TC program but they get it from their aunt whenever they visit her. I spent a good amount of time last Sat chatting with them...they both were able to communicate using ASL without a problem. They arent getting it daily that's for sure. Children are amazing how quickly they acquire language. An adult probably wouldnt become fluent by just 20 mins a week.

__________________
"Wine improves with age. The older I get, the better I like it."

--- Anonymous

Lighthouse77

except it is hard to get a deaf person the same hearing level as hearing people. I did wear powerful hearing aids since I was 2 or 3 years old.

__________________
Good thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from.

faire_jour

Are you sure they don't get ASL at school? Our TC program used ASL, especially above pre-school.

faire_jour

I didn't say the "same as hearing" just the best they can possibly have.

shel90

Yep, I am sure because their mother wants Sim-Com all day and all of their teachers are hearing. Their mother doesnt know any ASL at all.

__________________
"Wine improves with age. The older I get, the better I like it."

--- Anonymous

Lighthouse77

Their mother probably can do SEE (or is it PSE?) instead of ASL. It is hard for adults to take what they learn and reverse it. she have spoken english for too long.

__________________
Good thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from.

faire_jour

I often SIM-COM ASL. It is bad english, but it gives access for sound and ASL. Not saying it is right, just that it is possible.

Oh, and why is it assumed that because the teachers are hearing that they can't be using ASL? My daughter's teacher is hearing and her ASL is amazing.

faire_jour

How about CASE? That is what we do a lot.

shel90

That's what I believe in too which is why I advocate for giving every child all the tools rather than just one tool over another.

__________________
"Wine improves with age. The older I get, the better I like it."

--- Anonymous

faire_jour

But it is impossible in real life. I know tons of families who want everything but are unable to get it. Many of us want ASL and spoken language, but we are told we must choose.

flip

I can understand what you are talking about, and it's not first time I see this kind of incoherent statements from deaf people raised orally. It's sad that signers and oral deaf people keep on insulting each other, when it's the choices of hearing people that split deaf people.

A bit off topic perhaps, but in some european cities in the past, it was two kind of schools for deaf people. One kind was labeled "Idiot schools", where those who could speak attended. The other was "deaf and dumb" school, where those who was mute attended. I think most people on this board can figure out why they divided with the words "idiots" and "dumb".

My theory, is that we all are either idiot, or dumb, in the eyes of most hearing cultures. Successful oral people are sucessful idiots with an eccentric kind of intelligence. Sucessful native signers are dumb smartasses. I am a dumb smartass

shel90

I agree..my apologies for not being more specific..what I meant that his teachers are all hearing and not fluent in ASL. That's what my friend told me.

__________________
"Wine improves with age. The older I get, the better I like it."

--- Anonymous

shel90

[QUOTE=faire_jour;1317055]But it is impossible in real life. I know tons of families who want everything but are unable to get it. Many of us want ASL and spoken language, but we are told we must choose.[/QUOTE]

That is what I am fighting against...It doesnt have to be that way and I am trying to educate that out there to different programs.

__________________
"Wine improves with age. The older I get, the better I like it."

--- Anonymous

Bottesini

It isn't impossible really. You can easily have ASL at school and work on spoken English at home in the evening.

__________________

shel90

If u are talking about my friend who has the 2 deaf boys? She only knows a handful of signs..she cant even do SEE. She is deaf herself.

__________________
"Wine improves with age. The older I get, the better I like it."

--- Anonymous

Lighthouse77

oh ok, wow.

__________________
Good thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from.

shel90

LOL!

Not only that but the attitudes of the general hearing population have against those who grew up signing. I have had teachers tell me that because I can speak, I must be so smart and that they felt sorry for my brother because he couldnt speak. That kind of message brainwashed me into thinking I was superior than the signing deaf because I was raised orally.

__________________
"Wine improves with age. The older I get, the better I like it."

--- Anonymous

shel90

She wants to learn ASL and she just became a part of our group. We all welcomed her with open arms.

__________________
"Wine improves with age. The older I get, the better I like it."

--- Anonymous

faire_jour

So ignore the child's language needs at home? If the need ASL at school, they need it at home. I don't know if it isn't the case in other people's homes, but in ours, parents are the primary teachers for children their whole life. We do science experiments, go to the zoo, talk about the stars...etc.

Plus, if we say "no signing at home" wouldn't that make her think that we don't value ASL or that it is "lower" or somehow less important than spoken language? Is that what we should be teaching her??

faire_jour

opps

Lighthouse77

I think ASL should be done at home. It sadden me how people feel education is more important than communication. If a girl have a boyfriend problem, how can she tell that to her mother without feeling overwhelmed with lipreading and communication?

__________________
Good thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from.

faire_jour

I agree. If the child uses a language, it needs to be at school AND at home. The idea of not communicating with a child in a language that they use is ridiculous to me.

shel90

I use both with my son. Use ASL with voice off and then sometimes use spoken English without signing. Can u do that? Not as an insult but just asking if u are able to do that?

__________________
"Wine improves with age. The older I get, the better I like it."

--- Anonymous