Some thoughts? - Page 6

Byrdie714 · 02-15-2009, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bottesini

First attempt at electrical stimulation of the cochlea was 1790 by Volta.

He stuck two metal rods in his ears and connected them to current.

OUCH!

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

I would much rather the Deaf community speak for themselves, yes. Why should I assume that the majority agree with a lone hearing poster. I would like to see the information they have, and where they draw their conclusions from, not her's.

*sigh*

You have to remember the jillio has been around the Deaf community for 20+ years and have seen what works and what doesn't. Plus she has used her education and experience to betterment the Deaf community especially to get through some of the "thick-headed" ignoramous individuals out there.

How long have you been involved in the Deaf community? Not that long.

Now--before you "jump me". Just remember that over time--your word , your activism in the Deaf community, your perspective as a parent of a Deaf child will carry weight. In the meantime--I suggest reading up on Deaf Heritage, read all the information that pertains to the culture and the community and continue to advocate for your daughter as well as for others in her situation.

**Bottesini** · 02-15-2009, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

Because, people here say, everyday, that ASL or being in a bi-bi school does not impede speech development. Here is a study that would suggest otherwise. Instead of people reading it, offering other facts for the otherside, I am attacked and called an audist.

We all read it and formed conclusions about the study. But if our opinions are not same as you, you are attacked. You think.

Not really true.

jillio · 02-15-2009, 05:03 PM

Come on guys....more posts. It would appear that the last few are being ignored again.

Berry · 02-15-2009, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bottesini

Thought you made a big point that you were not a literal thinker? Metaphor?

.

Okay you got me.

I don't prefer literal thinking, but I can do it -- And that was just too good to pass up.

Babyblue · 02-15-2009, 05:05 PM

I grew up in an oral only approach. I missed out on a whole lot. Even though my hearing was considered to be in the Normal hearing range when I was a child. I speak very well hear very well with my hearing aids. My hearing has deteriorated since and still is. I learned ASL when I was allowed to attend to a deaf school in my high school years. I truly blossomed with my SOCIAL SKILLS. I ended up not being as shy around people and more proud and acceptance towards my hearing loss. I did not feel I had to keep my Hearing aids covered up with my hair. I felt like I belonged.

Just to give you an idea about oral approach only.

**Bottesini** · 02-15-2009, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berry

Okay you got me.

I don't prefer literal thinking, but I can do it -- And that was just too good to pass up.

I forgive you.

Jillio, I have a date to babysit my granddaughter. We will sign in ASL.

Later guys.

**Jolie77** · 02-15-2009, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

Because, people here say, everyday, that ASL or being in a bi-bi school does not impede speech development. Here is a study that would suggest otherwise. Instead of people reading it, offering other facts for the otherside, I am attacked and called an audist.

Nobody here is saying that you're an audist. What they are trying to say is - They are also reconciling their experience that is correlated with this subject.

We all have tried to understand where you are exactly coming from and maybe in exchange for that - You could try and at least give it a chance for others to be able to correlate with this.

So with that, It may seem like you are being attacked about this but it is not at all in the sort for this.

jillio · 02-15-2009, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bottesini

I forgive you.

Jillio, I have a date to babysit my granddaughter. We will sign in ASL.

Later guys.

Good for you!

Byrdie714 · 02-15-2009, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

Because, people here say, everyday, that ASL or being in a bi-bi school does not impede speech development. Here is a study that would suggest otherwise. Instead of people reading it, offering other facts for the otherside, I am attacked and called an audist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jolie77

Nobody here is saying that you're an audist. What they are trying to say is - They are also reconciling their experience that is correlated with this subject.

We all have tried to understand where you are exactly coming from and maybe in exchange for that - You could try and at least give it a chance for others to be able to correlate with this.

So with that, It may seem like you are being attacked about this but it is not at all in the sort for this.

I think our arguments have fallen on "deaf ears"-- so to speak.

**Jiro** · 02-15-2009, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

Because, people here say, everyday, that ASL or being in a bi-bi school does not impede speech development. Here is a study that would suggest otherwise. Instead of people reading it, offering other facts for the otherside, I am attacked and called an audist.

so you believe bibi school and ASL that does impede speech development... but Jillio's son can do oral. What about Heather Whitestone?

**Jiro** · 02-15-2009, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bottesini

We will sign in ASL.

Later guys.

practice ASL with me!

faire_jour · 02-15-2009, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jolie77

Nobody here is saying that you're an audist. What they are trying to say is - They are also reconciling their experience that is correlated with this subject.

We all have tried to understand where you are exactly coming from and maybe in exchange for that - You could try and at least give it a chance for others to be able to correlate with this.

So with that, It may seem like you are being attacked about this but it is not at all in the sort for this.

Not being attacked? I was told to get off the forum and spend time with my daughter. That is implying that I am a lazy mom. That is totally unacceptable. People here don't know me and should not accuse me of that.

I have never advocated an oral only enviroment for any child or recommended that anyone get their child an implant. I do however tell each person I meet with a child with a hearing loss that ASL was the best decision we ever made.

faire_jour · 02-15-2009, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

so you believe bibi school and ASL that does impede speech development... but Jillio's son can do oral. What about Heather Whitestone?

I never said that, and I thought Heather Whitestone grew up oral? Maybe I'm wrong about that. Nope, I looked and her site says she didn't learn ASL until 11th grade.

The study didn't say that signers can't speak, but that those in an oral enviroment speak better than those in a TC enviroment.

**Jolie77** · 02-15-2009, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

Not being attacked? I was told to get off the forum and spend time with my daughter. That is implying that I am a lazy mom. That is totally unacceptable. People here don't know me and should not accuse me of that.

I have never advocated an oral only enviroment for any child or recommended that anyone get their child an implant. I do however tell each person I meet with a child with a hearing loss that ASL was the best decision we ever made.

No, No - It is not meant to say that you're a lazy mom. We all know that you've been hungry for knowledge whether it's related to the Deaf Education/Oralism/ASL/CI, so and on. What they are trying to say is - If you put a lot of energy in to this; It is all about having to try to see it from different options than trying to focus on one issue.

I'm glad you chose the ASL approach for your child and as for the rest of us, we can see that you're trying your best as much as you can.

**Jiro** · 02-15-2009, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

Not being attacked? I was told to get off the forum and spend time with my daughter. That is implying that I am a lazy mom. That is totally unacceptable. People here don't know me and should not accuse me of that.

it's just one angry comment. we all get hot-headed and we do say stuff that we don't mean it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

I have never advocated an oral only enviroment for any child or recommended that anyone get their child an implant. I do however tell each person I meet with a child with a hearing loss that ASL was the best decision we ever made.

yes I do know that. but hey.... you are Missy's mom and only you know the best for your child. it's just that we don't agree with some of your perspective and approach for future goal because we all have been thru it and we're trying to tell you that it doesn't work. It's the same old cycle that keeps repeating.

Bebonang · 02-15-2009, 05:18 PM

Well, that is good. So why are you insisting that you want to go back to old days of mainstream school with oral only method and no ASl all on account of the research which does not mean any thing because it was written by a hearing author? I just don't understand your point.

Babyblue · 02-15-2009, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

I never said that, and I thought Heather Whitestone grew up oral? Maybe I'm wrong about that. Nope, I looked and her site says she didn't learn ASL until 11th grade.

The study didn't say that signers can't speak, but that those in an oral enviroment speak better than those in a TC enviroment.

I have seen some deaf people that grew up in a deaf school speak better than I do. I have grew up in an oral only enviroment. I feel the speech does depends on how well a person hears. Again... I will say it really depends on the type of hearing loss the child has to be able to learn and reconize speech and saying the words properly. The hearing loss is what impedes a childs speech. Your child is implanted so she will be able to hear and reconize some sounds.

faire_jour · 02-15-2009, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bebonang

Well, that is good. So why are you insisting that you want to go back to old days of mainstream school with oral only method and no ASl all on account of the research which does not mean any thing because it was written by a hearing author? I just don't understand your point.

Where did I say that we "should go back to mainstreaming and oral only method"????? Show me.

faire_jour · 02-15-2009, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Babyblue

I have seen some deaf people that grew up in a deaf school speak better than I do. I have grew up in an oral only enviroment. I feel the speech does depends on how well a person hears. Again... I will say it really depends on the type of hearing loss the child has to be able to learn and reconize speech and saying the words properly. The hearing loss is what impedes a childs speech. Your child is implanted so she will be able to hear and reconize some sounds.

I agree that how well a child hears determines, in many cases, how well they will speak. That is the reasoning behind the CI. My daughter can now hear all speech sounds and can tell the differece between them.

Byrdie714 · 02-15-2009, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Babyblue

I have seen some deaf people that grew up in a deaf school speak better than I do. I have grew up in an oral only enviroment. I feel the speech does depends on how well a person hears. Again... I will say it really depends on the type of hearing loss the child has to be able to learn and reconize speech and saying the words properly. The hearing loss is what impedes a childs speech. Your child is implanted so she will be able to hear and reconize some sounds.

True.

Just because one child has a CI doesn't mean they will be speaking better than child with HA.

***naisho*** · 02-15-2009, 05:27 PM

Here's an attempt from me to share my experience.

I don't have any psychological background, nor from my University's BA in Sociology has my courses ever gone into the deaf world and culture. So I can't give you a professional stand from this.

I know zero ASL. Unless you want me to give you the peace sign or give you the middle finger, or make some animal shadows on the wall.

I grew up without being able to hear out of one ear. My hearing was minimalish on the other. I wasn't diagnosed at birth, but much rather later on around 2 or 3. I went to school with an oral approach just like any other kid.

Sit up in the front rows, learn the same course materials, have fun with friends.
I did this from K-12. Then as a college freshman till graduation.
I took zero experience with ASL. My ignorant self didn't even know what a CI was until probably about 2-3 years ago when I signed up for this site. That just tells you how much I know.

But what I can tell you is. I don't have "mental" speech or vocal hindrance problems that I know of. I don't have any friends that are deaf outside of this board.

I am basically a HH guy living in a world of hearing people, trying to jump past the hurdles and challenges thrown at me while I try to keep up with my hearing opponents.

During one of my time in elementary school, probably 3rd or 4th grade. There was a kid in my class who was, I think, completely deaf. I don't remember much of him, I didn't get to know him. He had an interpreter signing to him during class. In the english curricula of our courses, our teacher sought to make everyone read orally and verbally in class. So I read just as much as the hearing kids did, I do not think I had any impairments. We were probably reading some Mark Twain book or something.

When it was that kid's turn, the terp would make some signs and then he would start reading. When he read, I was also able to keep along with him even with my background. Aside from this, I don't remember much else due to the time this was during. He only stayed around 2 months then left. If anything, he probably made a different "accent" when speaking certain pronunciations. But when I look back at that, I even do it today, I realize.

Words I have never heard of spoken, but I've learned, then I speak it in reality to the hearing and they say oh, you mean this. Like the word "Protege". Before I heard it, I said it as "pro teh gee". Then my friend one day said "huh?" "oh, you mean "pro teh jay". Who's fault is that?

Does that answer anything?

Today, I don't find myself having speech problems or much at all if you exclude certain word pronunciations. I would assume that for an ASL kid, it would be the same for him/her if they were hard of hearing.

edit: PS. I wish I learned ASL when I was younger. I would have not sat through a lot of things wondering

was going on since I couldn't hear.

loml · 02-15-2009, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Babyblue

I have seen some deaf people that grew up in a deaf school speak better than I do. I have grew up in an oral only enviroment. I feel the speech does depends on how well a person hears. Again... I will say it really depends on the type of hearing loss the child has to be able to learn and reconize speech and saying the words properly. The hearing loss is what impedes a childs speech. Your child is implanted so she will be able to hear and reconize some sounds.

BabyBlue - Your statment holds truth. I think it is very important to recognize that each child, each family, each motiviation etc. is as individual as there are indiviudals.

Can the cause of a speech delay/impedment truly be impacted only by level of hearing loss?

Berry · 02-15-2009, 05:27 PM

faire_jour,

Why are you looking for opinions here?

Why not seek out Deaf people in your own community? Living breathing people. Do you realize that as the parent of a deaf child you would be welcomed?

rick48 · 02-15-2009, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiro

well gee rick - maybe if you calm down and actually read word by word... you would see that Jillio is NOT talking about pitting against CI. Shel and Jillio have REPEATEDLY showed you that ORAL-FIRST approach is wrong and oxymoronic.

If you want to get a CI. fine. HA, fine. point is - the oral-first approach was wrong and we deafies have posted our life stories about the result of oral-first approach.

Perhaps if you had read the post "word by word" you might have been able to understand the point.

There is one thing of which I am certain, having raised a daughter who is oral and having been around oral deaf adults and children for over two decades, is that oral langauge as one's primary language can have both positive and negative impacts upon the lives of deaf people. Just like other approaches.

The approach is neither "wrong" and certainly not "oxymoronic" but the claims by those who dismiss it outright and refuse to admit that for some it has proved to be beneficial is indeed moronic.

BTW Heather Whitestone was raised oral first and my source is her mother who I had the opportunity to meet and talk at length to.

jillio · 02-15-2009, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick48

Perhaps if you had read the post "word by word" you might have been able to understand the point.

There is one thing of which I am certain, having raised a daughter who is oral and having been around oral deaf adults and children for over two decades, is that oral langauge as one's primary language can have both positive and negative impacts upon the lives of deaf people. Just like other approaches.

The approach is neither "wrong" and certainly not "oxymoronic" but the claims by those who dismiss it outright and refuse to admit that for some it has proved to be beneficial is indeed moronic.

BTW Heather Whitestone was raised oral first and my source is her mother who I had the opportunity to meet and talk at length to.

Still getting information from second hand sources rather than from the deaf individual themselves. Not very valid or reliable.

faire_jour · 02-15-2009, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berry

faire_jour,

Why are you looking for opinions here?

Why not seek out Deaf people in your own community? Living breathing people. Do you realize that as the parent of a deaf child you would be welcomed?

As I have stated at least one hundred thosand times. my family is part of our local Deaf community. We went to an activity Friday night, and a Deaf church this morning.

Babyblue · 02-15-2009, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

I agree that how well a child hears determines, in many cases, how well they will speak. That is the reasoning behind the CI. My daughter can now hear all speech sounds and can tell the differece between them.

Exactly. So since she can hear the sounds and reconize certain sounds. She will learn to speak. Her speech and voice will not be the same as a hearing voice. Even with a CI. So it will be still somewhat impeded. That is why she probably take speech therapy (correct me if I am wrong)

faire_jour · 02-15-2009, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Still getting information from second hand sources rather than from the deaf individual themselves. Not very valid or reliable.

How about the website she wrote in her words?

Heather Whitestone-McCallum

"My mother was a schoolteacher so we did a lot of homework. She chose acoupedic approach, which meant I had to use what hearing I had and to rely on auditory stimulation. I visited a private speech therapist twice a week. It took me six years to say my last name correctly. I did not learn sign language until I was in 11th grade. I was mainstreamed in public hearing school until 4th grade and then I attended Central Institute for the Deaf, which was an oral school located in St. Louis, Missouri. When I was 14 years old, I went back to public high school and graduated with 3.6 GPA without having a sign language interpreter. "

**Jiro** · 02-15-2009, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

As I have stated at least one hundred thosand times. my family is part of our local Deaf community. We went to an activity Friday night, and a Deaf church this morning.

what Berry meant is that what do you hope to get from here since you feel you're not welcomed in here. Are you looking to get some information or are you advocating something?

faire_jour · 02-15-2009, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Babyblue

Exactly. So since she can hear the sounds and reconize certain sounds. She will learn to speak. Her speech and voice will not be the same as a hearing voice. Even with a CI. So it will be still somewhat impeded. That is why she probably take speech therapy (correct me if I am wrong)

True. She ia already speaking a little, and she can understand some spoken language.

02-15-2009, 05:18 PM	#166 (permalink)
Bebonang Registered User Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Manitoulin Island on Lake Huron in Canada Posts: 7,009	Well, that is good. So why are you insisting that you want to go back to old days of mainstream school with oral only method and no ASl all on account of the research which does not mean any thing because it was written by a hearing author? I just don't understand your point. __________________ I HAVE BEEN DEAF SINCE BIRTH, AND IT IS STILL AWESOME TO BE . (thumb up) (very happy)

02-15-2009, 05:27 PM	#171 (permalink)
*naisho* Forum Disorders M.D.,Ph.D Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: 127.0.0.1 Posts: 6,162	Here's an attempt from me to share my experience. I don't have any psychological background, nor from my University's BA in Sociology has my courses ever gone into the deaf world and culture. So I can't give you a professional stand from this. I know zero ASL. Unless you want me to give you the peace sign or give you the middle finger, or make some animal shadows on the wall. I grew up without being able to hear out of one ear. My hearing was minimalish on the other. I wasn't diagnosed at birth, but much rather later on around 2 or 3. I went to school with an oral approach just like any other kid. Sit up in the front rows, learn the same course materials, have fun with friends. I did this from K-12. Then as a college freshman till graduation. I took zero experience with ASL. My ignorant self didn't even know what a CI was until probably about 2-3 years ago when I signed up for this site. That just tells you how much I know. But what I can tell you is. I don't have "mental" speech or vocal hindrance problems that I know of. I don't have any friends that are deaf outside of this board. I am basically a HH guy living in a world of hearing people, trying to jump past the hurdles and challenges thrown at me while I try to keep up with my hearing opponents. During one of my time in elementary school, probably 3rd or 4th grade. There was a kid in my class who was, I think, completely deaf. I don't remember much of him, I didn't get to know him. He had an interpreter signing to him during class. In the english curricula of our courses, our teacher sought to make everyone read orally and verbally in class. So I read just as much as the hearing kids did, I do not think I had any impairments. We were probably reading some Mark Twain book or something. When it was that kid's turn, the terp would make some signs and then he would start reading. When he read, I was also able to keep along with him even with my background. Aside from this, I don't remember much else due to the time this was during. He only stayed around 2 months then left. If anything, he probably made a different "accent" when speaking certain pronunciations. But when I look back at that, I even do it today, I realize. Words I have never heard of spoken, but I've learned, then I speak it in reality to the hearing and they say oh, you mean this. Like the word "Protege". Before I heard it, I said it as "pro teh gee". Then my friend one day said "huh?" "oh, you mean "pro teh jay". Who's fault is that? Does that answer anything? Today, I don't find myself having speech problems or much at all if you exclude certain word pronunciations. I would assume that for an ASL kid, it would be the same for him/her if they were hard of hearing. edit: PS. I wish I learned ASL when I was younger. I would have not sat through a lot of things wondering was going on since I couldn't hear. __________________

02-15-2009, 05:27 PM	#173 (permalink)
Berry Registered User Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Oroville, Ca. Posts: 2,024	faire_jour, Why are you looking for opinions here? Why not seek out Deaf people in your own community? Living breathing people. Do you realize that as the parent of a deaf child you would be welcomed? __________________ Free Jillio! Living life in the sandbox.

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02-15-2009, 05:03 PM	#153 (permalink)
jillio Banned Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 60,296	Come on guys....more posts. It would appear that the last few are being ignored again.

02-15-2009, 05:05 PM	#155 (permalink)
Babyblue Registered User Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 12,001	I grew up in an oral only approach. I missed out on a whole lot. Even though my hearing was considered to be in the Normal hearing range when I was a child. I speak very well hear very well with my hearing aids. My hearing has deteriorated since and still is. I learned ASL when I was allowed to attend to a deaf school in my high school years. I truly blossomed with my SOCIAL SKILLS. I ended up not being as shy around people and more proud and acceptance towards my hearing loss. I did not feel I had to keep my Hearing aids covered up with my hair. I felt like I belonged. Just to give you an idea about oral approach only.