Is it ever ok for kids NOT to use ASL? - Page 20

faire_jour · 02-14-2009, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

And it would be percentiles, and not pecentages as origninally stated?

Correct.

faire_jour · 02-14-2009, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byrdie714

What school district is this?

Salt Lake, Jordan, Alpine, Granite, Garfield, Tintic, San Juan, Davis.

sarasf · 02-14-2009, 10:10 AM

Jillio -- how do you do it? I wish I had your debating skills and patience.

jillio · 02-14-2009, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

Have to for her.

No, have to would imply that there is no other alternative.

jillio · 02-14-2009, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sarasf

Jillio -- how do you do it? I wish I had your debating skills and patience.

Years of practice.

rick48 · 02-14-2009, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

And where does your school district rate?

Above the state of New York's average which is above the national average. BTW we are one of the top feeder schools for the Ivy League.

rick48 · 02-14-2009, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byrdie714

What is academically inferior? Providing a bi-bi approach?

The results Fair Jour posted.

jillio · 02-14-2009, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick48

Above the state of New York's average which is above the national average. BTW we are one of the top feeder schools for the Ivy League.

That's a rather vague answer. Got any actual figures?

jillio · 02-14-2009, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick48

The results Fair Jour posted.

Actually, the results that fire_jour origninally posted were misleading, as she stated the results in percentages, not percentiles.

rick48 · 02-14-2009, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

I've produced the empirical evidence time and time again. Just because you choose to ignore it doesn't mean it hasn't been produced.

Your typical response but you never seem to produce it. I am still waiting for the last round of research I asked you for.

Open your eyes and the proof is all around you. The Deaf/deaf have tried to relate their experiences to you over and over again. Unfortuantely, your ears are plugged and your eyes are closed.

Oh, but I have indeed listened to them but actual people who we met and talked to not anonymous people on an internet forum if that is what you are suggesting parents use as the basis for their decisions then I feel sorry for any who follow your advice.

To answer your question: It is quite simple, Rick. ASL provides 100% access to communication, whether the child is deaf of deaf or deaf of hearing. Duh.

Again, how big is that environment? That you cannot answer the question, no excuse me, that you refuse to answer it demonstrates that you know that the answer is that it is a very small environment.

Is your concern what works best for the child, or what works best for the parent? Obviously, what is best for the parent is your primary concern.

Again, that is nothing more than your biased opinon and the typical response of one with no argument: to personalize and attack. We just chose a different path for our child than you, I can accept that each child is different and unique and the success of a child raised differently than mine neither threatens me nor diminishes the success achieved by my child.

Sorry that you are so threatened by children raised with oral language as their primary mode of communication but if you want to be a part of the deaf community then you better learn to accept them because they are coming in waves.

jillio · 02-14-2009, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick48

Well, if you want the research, the citations have been produced any number of times on AD, in response to both you and others. Do you know how to use the search feature?

Ah, you see, that is where you are limiting yourself. You are listening only to the oralists you find at the A.G. Bell conventions. They are hardly representative of the deaf population as a whole.

That environment is as big as any other child's enviroment. What kind of a question is that? You asked about access to communication, not environment size.

I haven't refused to answer anything. I answered your question. Just because you do not like the answer doesn't mean it hasn't been answered.

Since you are the one that is resorting to personal attacks, and attempt to justify the decisions you have made at every turn, one would wonder, indeed, who is threatened. Especially since your primary goal appears to be to discount anything and everything stated by deaf individuals.

**smile**

faire_jour · 02-14-2009, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

No, have to would imply that there is no other alternative.

Yes, have to. HAVE TO, have to, have to. Not that it is any of your freaking buisness but our school doesn't go through high school. The deaf kids, oral or signers, are mainstreamed in 10th grade at a hearing high school together. So my choice is mainstream her OR mainstream her.

jillio · 02-14-2009, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

Yes, have to. HAVE TO, have to, have to. Not that it is any of your freaking buisness but our school doesn't go through high school. The deaf kids, oral or signers, are mainstreamed in 10th grade at a hearing high school together. So my choice is mainstream her OR mainstream her.

At the 10th grade....10 years from now. Perhaps your alternatives will change by then. Can't very well make that decision now, as you have not arrived at the point where it needs to be made, nor where all of the future options are presented. To mainstream earlier, then, would be a "choose to" not a "have to."

rick48 · 02-14-2009, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Well, if you want the research, the citations have been produced any number of times on AD, in response to both you and others. Do you know how to use the search feature?

Ah, you see, that is where you are limiting yourself. You are listening only to the oralists you find at the A.G. Bell conventions. They are hardly representative of the deaf population as a whole.

That environment is as big as any other child's enviroment. What kind of a question is that? You asked about access to communication, not environment size.

I haven't refused to answer anything. I answered your question. Just because you do not like the answer doesn't mean it hasn't been answered.

Since you are the one that is resorting to personal attacks, and attempt to justify the decisions you have made at every turn, one would wonder, indeed, who is threatened. Especially since your primary goal appears to be to discount anything and everything stated by deaf individuals.

**smile**

Yes, just keep repeating your unsubstantiated opinions. When you have some facts come back.

Good to see that you continuously do not fail to disappoint as you resorted to your usual attack mode of now saying that I have to defend my decisions. Makes a lot of sense, that one has to defend decisions that have proved successful to a group of unknown people. Hey, if that is how you need to rationalize it, go right ahead.

rick48 · 02-14-2009, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

That's a rather vague answer. Got any actual figures?

Per cent of students exceeding NY State Standardized English requirements for the 07-08 academic year:

My district 92% State average 79%

For Math:

My district 96% State average 70%

and yes our Special Ed students are included in those figures.

**Bottesini** · 02-14-2009, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick48

Yes, just keep repeating your unsubstantiated opinions. When you have some facts come back.

Good to see that you continuously do not fail to disappoint as you resorted to your usual attack mode of now saying that I have to defend my decisions. Makes a lot of sense, that one has to defend decisions that have proved successful to a group of unknown people. Hey, if that is how you need to rationalize it, go right ahead.

I am curious. Did your daughter get a good job and have a happy life?

faire_jour · 02-14-2009, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

At the 10th grade....10 years from now. Perhaps your alternatives will change by then. Can't very well make that decision now, as you have not arrived at the point where it needs to be made, nor where all of the future options are presented. To mainstream earlier, then, would be a "choose to" not a "have to."

The school ends. There needs to be a critical mass of students for a high school. They do not and never have had, and never will have the amount of students, and staff needed to teach all the core areas in high school. They also partial mainstream starting in 7th grade. Again, you make assumptions about the services in my area which you know nothing about.

jillio · 02-14-2009, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick48

Yes, just keep repeating your unsubstantiated opinions. When you have some facts come back.

Good to see that you continuously do not fail to disappoint as you resorted to your usual attack mode of now saying that I have to defend my decisions. Makes a lot of sense, that one has to defend decisions that have proved successful to a group of unknown people. Hey, if that is how you need to rationalize it, go right ahead.

Not opinion, conclusions supported with empirical evidence. Empirical evidence that has been supplied more than once on this forum.

Why, exactly, is it that you keep returning to a forum known as AllDeaf, when you continue to display such distain for both its members and their deafness? If you are so threatened by the deaf perspective, wouldn't it be more comfortable for you to simply stay away from it? You obviously did that for years. Why do you feel such a need to justify your oralist philosophies at this point in time?

Berry · 02-14-2009, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

And if a child choses to discontinue sign? Is that ok? (I have seen it happen. I have a friend who cries because her son REFUSES to sign now. They still use it for their younger daughter, but the son does NOT want it)

.

Why would a child refuse to use a language that was acceptable to the family?

Not a child psychologist but I am a great grand father who has watched a lot of kids grow up -- And this to me suggests a serious trauma, quite likely at school. Ridicule perhaps? Being bullied because of?

I would find out why, and I would suggest to the schools that if they did not help me find an answer and find it now I would seek an attorney with a view of holding them liable.

jillio · 02-14-2009, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rick48

Per cent of students exceeding NY State Standardized English requirements for the 07-08 academic year:

My district 92% State average 79%

For Math:

My district 96% State average 70%

and yes our Special Ed students are included in those figures.

Not if your special ed students are exempted from proficiency testing. And the majority are.

faire_jour · 02-14-2009, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Not opinion, conclusions supported with empirical evidence. Empirical evidence that has been supplied more than once on this forum.

Why, exactly, is it that you keep returning to a forum known as AllDeaf, when you continue to display such distain for both its members and their deafness? If you are so threatened by the deaf perspective, wouldn't it be more comfortable for you to simply stay away from it? You obviously did that for years. Why do you feel such a need to justify your oralist philosophies at this point in time?

Can you provide it for others who have not seen it? I am sure there are many here who have not seen the materials requested, even if Rick has.

Berry · 02-14-2009, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

And if a child choses to discontinue sign? Is that ok? (I have seen it happen. I have a friend who cries because her son REFUSES to sign now. They still use it for their younger daughter, but the son does NOT want it)

.

Why would a child refuse to use a language that was acceptable to the family?

Not a child psychologist but I am a great grand father who has watched a lot of kids grow up -- And this to me suggests a serious trauma, quite likely at school. Ridicule perhaps? Being bullied because of?

I would find out why, and I would suggest to the schools that if they did not help me find the answer and find it now I would seek an attorney with a view of holding them liable.

faire_jour · 02-14-2009, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berry

Why would a child refuse to use a language that was acceptable to the family?

Not a child psychologist but I am a great grand father who has watched a lot of kids grow up -- And this to me suggests a serious trauma, quite likely at school. Ridicule perhaps? Being bullied because of?

I would find out why, and I would suggest to the schools that if they did not help me find an answer and find it now I would seek an attorney with a view of holding them liable.

Because he wants to communicate in the way that he prefers. Why do many CODA's end up using English as their L1?

jillio · 02-14-2009, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

Can you provide it for others who have not seen it? I am sure there are many here who have not seen the materials requested, even if Rick has.

Do you know how to use the search feature? I am not on my home computer, and that is where all of my research is stored. But, I have in the past, provided citations for every bit of research I have cited, allowing others to have the information to access it if they wish.

jillio · 02-14-2009, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bottesini

I am curious. Did your daughter get a good job and have a happy life?

We know that she started learning ASL when she went to college.

faire_jour · 02-14-2009, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Do you know how to use the search feature? I am not on my home computer, and that is where all of my research is stored. But, I have in the past, provided citations for every bit of research I have cited, allowing others to have the information to access it if they wish.

So that is a no?

jillio · 02-14-2009, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

Because he wants to communicate in the way that he prefers. Why do many CODA's end up using English as their L1?

Uh....because they are hearing?

faire_jour · 02-14-2009, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

Uh....because they are hearing?

So? ASL is as accessable to them as English, AND it was their first language, why do they choose to drop it?

jillio · 02-14-2009, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

So that is a no?

No, it is not a "no." It is a "the information has already been posted, and is available to you if you want it. All you have to do is look for it. I guess it depends on how badly you want it."

faire_jour · 02-14-2009, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

No, it is not a "no." It is a "the information has already been posted, and is available to you if you want it. All you have to do is look for it. I guess it depends on how badly you want it."

Tell me what to search for.

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02-14-2009, 10:10 AM	#573 (permalink)
sarasf Registered User Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 173	Jillio -- how do you do it? I wish I had your debating skills and patience.