Originally Posted by faire_jour

I looked it up and my State school for the Deaf was testing at 10-35% of the national average. Remember this is a program that has a bi-bi school comprised of about 80% Deaf of Deaf. I don't know what conclusions should be drawn from that.

Originally Posted by rick48

That it is an academically inferior school that is failing its students miserably.

Originally Posted by rick48

That is your typical response to say it is based on "empirical data" that you are never able to cite or produce. No matter how many times you say it, still does not make it so. Cite your proof that the oral only approach limits a person from reaching their full potential and BTW add in your "proof" for this additional subjective opinion that you are so fond of tossing around:

"Oral only environments create problems that an individual must spend a lifetime remediating."

As for your unsubstantiated opinions, that you like to mask as facts, not going to argue with them but if that is what you believe is the basis for why parents choose ultimately an oral only approach then you are mistaken.

BTW for the deaf child of hearing parents who does not have oral skills where does an "environment that permits 100% access to communication" exist?

Again, while you insist on a one size fits all philosophy for deaf children, that not surprisingly, is based on how you ultimately raised your deaf child,
I prefer to maintain that there is no one way to raise any child, even a deaf one. Each child is unique, so is each family situation and what works best for my child is not necessarily the best approach for your child.

Originally Posted by Bottesini

Synopsis: Faire Jour posed the question.

Everyone but Daredevel said no.

Faire Jour said "is so."

Everyone else said "is not."

Faire Jour cursed one person and got banned. Got unbanned and is back at it.

Maybe soon 1000.

Originally Posted by shel90

U asked the question and got our opinions and feelings....

ASL is a language and many of us don't see how it is ok to deprive deaf children full access to a language just like hearing kids aren't..

Gosh, if I went to a hearing forum and started a thread asking if it is ok for hearing kids not to use spoken language and just use ASL instead...u bet people would go against that idea..

Why should it be different for deaf children?

Originally Posted by rick48

That is your typical response to say it is based on "empirical data" that you are never able to cite or produce. No matter how many times you say it, still does not make it so. Cite your proof that the oral only approach limits a person from reaching their full potential and BTW add in your "proof" for this additional subjective opinion that you are so fond of tossing around:

"Oral only environments create problems that an individual must spend a lifetime remediating."

As for your unsubstantiated opinions, that you like to mask as facts, not going to argue with them but if that is what you believe is the basis for why parents choose ultimately an oral only approach then you are mistaken.

BTW for the deaf child of hearing parents who does not have oral skills where does an "environment that permits 100% access to communication" exist? Once they leave the house, is it in their neighborhood? With there extended family? Is it in their local schools? Does it exists in their community? Will they find it in the hundreds of daily encounters they will be confronted with? In their workplace?

Again, while you insist on a one size fits all philosophy for deaf children, that not surprisingly, is based on how you ultimately raised your deaf child, I prefer to maintain that there is no one way to raise any child, even a deaf one. Each child is unique, so is each family situation and what works best for my child is not necessarily the best approach for your child.

Originally Posted by jillio

I've produced the empirical evidence time and time again. Just because you choose to ignore it doesn't mean it hasn't been produced.

The person lacking any evidece what so ever for their claims is you.

To answer your question: It is quite simple, Rick. ASL provides 100% access to communication, whether the child is deaf of deaf or deaf of hearing. Duh.

Originally Posted by rick48

That it is an academically inferior school that is failing its students miserably.

Originally Posted by Byrdie714

The other thing they are forgetting is that the Deaf schools isn't the only ones that are hurting--so are the public mainstream schools.

Originally Posted by jillio

Exactly. They say the average deaf student has a reading level of 4-5th grade. They fail to mention that the average hearing student has a reading level of 6th grade at graduation.

Originally Posted by shel90

And that is in their 2nd language! How many hearin people can read in a different language and past the 4th grade level of the 2nd language?

Originally Posted by Byrdie714

And they don't even know geogrpahy!

Originally Posted by jillio

Quite true. And their math skills are lacking, as well.

Originally Posted by jillio

And how is it rating in terms of the rest of your state? 10-35% is quite a variance.

Originally Posted by Byrdie714

I was talking to a potential customer who made the point that they were Washington native and didn't know where we were at!

I figure if one is living in the state--you would attempt to learn as much as you can about your state.

And...he was a doctor!

Originally Posted by faire_jour

The lowest "average score" for a grade was about 10%, the highest was under 35%. These were the IOWA test scores for last year.

We have at least two dozen schools that scored in the 75% or above, with 2 elementary schools in the high 90's.

Originally Posted by Jolie77

You're serious? Wow, tis all the irony.

Originally Posted by faire_jour

The lowest "average score" for 5th grade was about 10%, the highest was under 35%. These were the IOWA test scores for last year.

We have at least two dozen schools that scored in the 75% or above, with 2 elementary schools in the high 90's.

Originally Posted by Byrdie714

Remember that certain school districts have school levies. The ones that past the most usually have a higher test score than those that fail their levies.

Don't be making assumptions as each school district is individually tailered to their community.

For the state school--it's usually on the low end of funding due to the government's ignoramous of deaf education as they prefer to "just pass them" without utilizing the full potential of the deaf students. Regardless if they are CI users or not.

Originally Posted by Byrdie714

Remember that certain school districts have school levies. The ones that past the most usually have a higher test score than those that fail their levies.

Don't be making assumptions as each school district is individually tailered to their community.

For the state school--it's usually on the low end of funding due to the government's ignoramous of deaf education as they prefer to "just pass them" without utilizing the full potential of the deaf students. Regardless if they are CI users or not.

Originally Posted by faire_jour

The 20 highest schools are in 7 different school districts. My daughter could attend any of 3 easily (open enrollement) and 2 more with a little effort.

Originally Posted by jillio

Your percentages aren't telling me anything. 10% and 35% of what?

Originally Posted by Byrdie714

And they don't even know geogrpahy!

Originally Posted by faire_jour

The percentile of the national average on the IOWA tests.

Originally Posted by faire_jour

The 20 highest schools are in 7 different school districts. My daughter could attend any of 3 easily (open enrollement) and 2 more with a little effort.

Originally Posted by jillio

And you haven't enrolled her why?

Originally Posted by jillio

Then that would be the 10th percentile and the 35th percentile? Because that is quite a different figure than 10% and 35%.

And is that a comprehensive score, or indiviual subtest scores?

Originally Posted by faire_jour

That is the comprehensive score.

Originally Posted by faire_jour

Because I was taught by the Deaf community that a bi-bi school will meet her needs better than a mainstream enviroment with an interpreter. She is a very poor interpreter user, and I wanted her to have free communication between herself and the teacher and her peers. She is only in Kindy, we will be changing her placement, we always intended to eventually. We knew the school wouldn't be able to provide an appropriate education when she was older (not enough students). It is sad, but we think she will have to eventually end up in the mainstream.

Originally Posted by jillio

"Have" to, or you "choose" to?