Is it ever ok for kids NOT to use ASL? - Page 10

jillio · 02-10-2009, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

It never ceases to amaze me that people think it is ok to accept limited access to language, communication, and information for deaf children but for hearing children, there would be an uproar and outrage.

Duh...why does the Deaf community feel strongly about this? It is about equality. Yet, the Deaf community is criticized for it.

Hello....

And not are they just willing to accept the limited access, they actually advocate for situations that increase limited access. And then turn around and complain about the literacy rates of deaf kids. It just does not make sense.

**shel90** · 02-10-2009, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

And not are they just willing to accept the limited access, they actually advocate for situations that increase limited access. And then turn around and complain about the literacy rates of deaf kids. It just does not make sense.

I refuse to be a part of it...I couldn't live with my conscience..

Babyblue · 02-10-2009, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

I have heard them, but it has been a long time.
So, how is ASL 100% accessable as well? If a child looks down to write...missed part of the conversation. If more than one person signs at the same time, in different locations....missed part. If you read something from a book....missed part. Heaven forbid you sneeze or yawn and close your eyes for a second.

Yes, I know I'm being facetious but really, is there a such thing as 100% on anything?

Hearing people get distracted and miss parts of conversations as well. Same thing happens when one or more person speaks at the same time. Different location or at the same.

When they cough or sneeze the other person usually have to repeat themselves.

As well I am being facetious. The same can be asked.

Do we actually have a 100% on any communication method? I think not. Misunderstanding in any language will always be there regardless. So the best option is to provide sign language and spoken language.

A lot of parents that have children implanted are often confused.

ASL does not delay a child's communication skills. It will help elaborate the skills.

Use speech and signs.

Why not teach both?

sarasf · 02-10-2009, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jillio

And not are they just willing to accept the limited access, they actually advocate for situations that increase limited access. And then turn around and complain about the literacy rates of deaf kids. It just does not make sense.

No it doesn't make sense. Faire Jour, I hope that you are able to be at peace with your daughter's hearing loss.

jillio · 02-10-2009, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

I refuse to be a part of it...I couldn't live with my conscience..

You and me both, Shel.

beyondthetrend · 02-10-2009, 09:36 PM

I've been Hearing impaired for 20 years, losing over 70% of my hearing (i'm 25) I never took ASL classes or was even offered the option. I did however take speach classes. I did my whole school career in regular public schools, with a few "special classes" here and there to make sure I wasn't falling behind. But If you as the parent feel its not ness. then I wouldn't push it, let your child deside. I wish I would have taken it. Or had been offered. But then again my friend Christopher took it and doesn't care to use it.

Byrdie714 · 02-10-2009, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

I would say that it is possible for children who hear very very well to be perfectly successful without the use of a visual language. That children with great hearing, and speech discrimination do not need ASL as their primary language.

Yeah they're called hearing kids.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

It never ceases to amaze me that people think it is ok to accept limited access to language, communication, and information for deaf children but for hearing children, there would be an uproar and outrage.

Duh...why does the Deaf community feel strongly about this? It is about equality. Yet, the Deaf community is criticized for it.

Hello....

Good point!

dreama · 02-10-2009, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris' mom

With Chris signs as taught him to be oral. He's not perfect at it and there is still a lot even as a mother I dont' understand orally. But buy using ASL first he has picked up alot of oral words. Here is how I taught him. I show him the flashcard, the picture (or object) do the sing and then say the word. It's a small step process. He masters the sign before trying to maste the verbal. Seems to work with us. It help him pick up new signs because when he starts off with the verbal you can't make out what he is trying to say without the sign. My personal opinion is what the parents thinks it's best for the children. I have been told by too many to count people to not use ASL on him. I didn't follow the advise and I feel that my sons L1 will be ASL and L2 Verble..

That's good to know. Your son is lucky to have a mother like you.

deafdyke · 02-11-2009, 02:05 AM

Quote:

There are kids out there with mild losses or CI's who can get 100% on random word speech discrimination tests and hear into the 10-15 db ranges.

On the other hand, is that their TRUE word discrimination or just the fact that people tend to modify their speech patterns to make it easier for a dhh person to understand them?
I know from personal experiance (camp and college) that when I would return to them, I'd be saying " what?" a lot b/c people would have forgotten to modify their speech.
Chris' mom.....is your son enrolled in a Deaf School or a Deaf program? He may find it helpful.
Daredevil, agreed. I am VERY glad I have the abilty to speak. However, the "gift" of speech is really dependant on whether or not the kid can develop inteligable speech....that is intellgiable by most people off the bat.

**Daredevel7** · 02-11-2009, 08:03 AM

I see that a lot of oral people here said "I wish I knew ASL." Does that mean you wish you learned it first? Or you wish you had that as an option (learning it later)?

Deafdyke, you're right that the "gift" of speech is really dependent on whether the kid can develop oral skills. (AND I am NOT talking about just being able to speak but also understand spoken English) Just questioning whether ASL really is the best route to go for EVERYONE. I just question the idea that ASL ONLY helps. This is different from the idea that ASL helps most of the time.

**shel90** · 02-11-2009, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daredevel7

I see that a lot of oral people here said "I wish I knew ASL." Does that mean you wish you learned it first? Or you wish you had that as an option (learning it later)?

Deafdyke, you're right that the "gift" of speech is really dependent on whether the kid can develop oral skills. (AND I am NOT talking about just being able to speak but also understand spoken English) Just questioning whether ASL really is the best route to go for EVERYONE. I just question the idea that ASL ONLY helps. This is different from the idea that ASL helps most of the time.

I wish I had ASL in the academic setting and for social situations. I was completely lost during class constantly and it used to get me so stressed out for fear of getting called and looking like a fool or for getting yelled at for not paying attention.

ASL is a language and it is natural for humans to develop language when exposed to it. Since spoken language is meant to be processed auditorilly, the risks that the children with hearing losses are there for not having full access to spoken language whether it is Japanese, Italian, Spanish, French, and etc

Asking that question...Is ASL really the best route for EVERYONE is just like asking the question ..Is English really the best route for every hearing child?

If I asked the latter question to the general hearing population, they would look at me like I am crazy. That's how the Deaf community sees with ASL..

Mrs Bucket · 02-11-2009, 08:33 AM

Sometimes I wish some people would see how successful the "Baby Signs" programs are because they use ASL. Get this, it is hearing parents bringing their hearing babies in to this program.

It's amazing how wee babies communicate with their parents using ASL.

This strengthens the bond between parents and babies.

Parents are able to communicate with their babies way before the voice boxes develop as they can learn to sign "milk, cookie, finish, eat, sleep" and the Baby Signs program teaches how to communicate with your babies.

Byrdie714 · 02-11-2009, 08:42 AM

Denying a deaf/CI/hoh child the basic skills of ASL--couldn't that be misconstrued as child abuse/neglect?

Mrs Bucket · 02-11-2009, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byrdie714

Denying a deaf/CI/hoh child the basic skills of ASL--couldn't that be misconstrued as child abuse/neglect?

No worse than refusing to give a child with a half a leg the prosthetic he/she needs.

Some parents cling on to false hope and that false hope is called denial.

Byrdie714 · 02-11-2009, 08:48 AM

And isn't that the river in Egypt?

Frisky Feline · 02-11-2009, 08:49 AM

i have seen other hearing parents teaching their hearing kids in my kids daycare couple of years ago. The moms feel that hearing babies need to learn ASL for a few reason. The first reason that they would able to communicate with babies in signing. They even told me that they hope kids would use ASL to grow their wide varies of languages included foreign languages to know how to accept languages with no problem much later.

I was just making a statement about how amazing is ASL impacts on babies minds work.

Byrdie714 · 02-11-2009, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frisky Feline

i have seen other hearing parents teaching their hearing kids in my kids daycare couple of years ago. The moms feel that hearing babies need to learn ASL for a few reason. The first reason that they would able to communicate with babies in signing. They even told me that they hope kids would use ASL to grow their wide varies of languages included foreign languages to know how to accept languages with no problem much later.

I was just making a statement about how amazing is ASL impacts on babies minds work.

And amazing that when the hearing parent finds out their child is deaf--lo and behold--slap them with a CI and deny them ASL!

Frisky Feline · 02-11-2009, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byrdie714

And amazing that when the hearing parent finds out their child is deaf--lo and behold--slap them with a CI and deny them ASL!

ha yeah i know the feeling. Its my assume that they ar worried how deaf kids can't speak well in much later if they keep sign/ASL. actually kids can learn BOTH in their earlier ages.

**Daredevel7** · 02-11-2009, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

I wish I had ASL in the academic setting and for social situations. I was completely lost during class constantly and it used to get me so stressed out for fear of getting called and looking like a fool or for getting yelled at for not paying attention.

ASL is a language and it is natural for humans to develop language when exposed to it. Since spoken language is meant to be processed auditorilly, the risks that the children with hearing losses are there for not having full access to spoken language whether it is Japanese, Italian, Spanish, French, and etc

Asking that question...Is ASL really the best route for EVERYONE is just like asking the question ..Is English really the best route for every hearing child?

If I asked the latter question to the general hearing population, they would look at me like I am crazy. That's how the Deaf community sees with ASL..

But you didn't answer my question. Yes you wish you had ASL, but.. WHEN? First or post lingually?

Actually I disagree with your analogy. I would say it's more like Chinese Americans asking "Is Mandarin the best route for my child?" while living in America.

**Daredevel7** · 02-11-2009, 09:00 AM

I'm sorry but I don't think teaching hearing babies ASL is quite the same as teaching deaf babies ASL if you plan on teaching both English later... hearing babies CAN process English auditorally, right?

**shel90** · 02-11-2009, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daredevel7

I'm sorry but I don't think teaching hearing babies ASL is quite the same as teaching deaf babies ASL if you plan on teaching both English later... hearing babies CAN process English auditorally, right?

My comment was just sarcasm..that was all.

Mrs Bucket · 02-11-2009, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daredevel7

I'm sorry but I don't think teaching hearing babies ASL is quite the same as teaching deaf babies ASL if you plan on teaching both English later... hearing babies CAN process English auditorally, right?

Babies [hearing or deaf], their minds are like sponges, they absorb so much at a young age.

They have so much learning capabilities at a very young age and are able to process language.

This is why a lot of people in this thread has been emphasizing ASL at the infant stage.

**shel90** · 02-11-2009, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daredevel7

But you didn't answer my question. Yes you wish you had ASL, but.. WHEN? First or post lingually?

Actually I disagree with your analogy. I would say it's more like Chinese Americans asking "Is Mandarin the best route for my child?" while living in America.

U are comparing apples to oranges...

hearing kids can pick up spoken language because they are hearing while deaf kids run the risk of not being able to pick it up and end up with language delays.

I wish I had it pre-lingually and the primary language. Most of all, I wish I had it in the academic setting so I could learn skills of engaging in classroom discussions or debates instead of sitting there with a vacant look in my face all the time.

**Daredevel7** · 02-11-2009, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

My comment was just sarcasm..that was all.

Oh no, it was more for Mrs. Bucket and Frisky Feline.. yea.. YOU!!!! and YOU!!!!!

**shel90** · 02-11-2009, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daredevel7

Oh no, it was more for Mrs. Bucket and Frisky Feline.. yea.. YOU!!!! and YOU!!!!!

Oh ha..lol. I thought maybe u missed my earlier post that it was sarcasm.

Mrs Bucket · 02-11-2009, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daredevel7

Oh no, it was more for Mrs. Bucket and Frisky Feline.. yea.. YOU!!!! and YOU!!!!!

We're getting frisky this morning .. aren't we?

Frisky Feline · 02-11-2009, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrs Bucket

Babies [hearing or deaf], their minds are like sponges, they absorb so much at a young age.

They have so much learning capabilities at a very young age and are able to process language.

This is why a lot of people in this thread has been emphasizing ASL at the infant stage.

Agreed! Like their minds can exercise with more room of learning anything if they use ASL in their earlier ages. Once they get older and adjust to learn new things easier and easier in much later.

Frisky Feline · 02-11-2009, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrs Bucket

We're getting frisky this morning .. aren't we?

Guess so.

hahaha

Mrs Bucket · 02-11-2009, 09:21 AM

FF, Yes, it is important that kids are given languages to learn from.

Miz FF,
Mr.Mosey here.. I mizzed yew dis merning! Yew not rub maw belly.

Frisky Feline · 02-11-2009, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrs Bucket

FF, Yes, it is important that kids are given languages to learn from.

Miz FF,
Mr.Mosey here.. I mizzed yew dis merning! Yew not rub maw belly.

Hey mr mosey, mew! your mom can give you a good rub on your belly for me.

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02-10-2009, 09:36 PM	#276 (permalink)
beyondthetrend Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 3	I've been Hearing impaired for 20 years, losing over 70% of my hearing (i'm 25) I never took ASL classes or was even offered the option. I did however take speach classes. I did my whole school career in regular public schools, with a few "special classes" here and there to make sure I wasn't falling behind. But If you as the parent feel its not ness. then I wouldn't push it, let your child deside. I wish I would have taken it. Or had been offered. But then again my friend Christopher took it and doesn't care to use it.

02-11-2009, 08:03 AM	#280 (permalink)
Daredevel7 Adrenaline Junky Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Huntsville, AL Posts: 4,341	I see that a lot of oral people here said "I wish I knew ASL." Does that mean you wish you learned it first? Or you wish you had that as an option (learning it later)? Deafdyke, you're right that the "gift" of speech is really dependent on whether the kid can develop oral skills. (AND I am NOT talking about just being able to speak but also understand spoken English) Just questioning whether ASL really is the best route to go for EVERYONE. I just question the idea that ASL ONLY helps. This is different from the idea that ASL helps most of the time.

02-11-2009, 08:33 AM	#282 (permalink)
Mrs Bucket Registered User Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 3,941	Sometimes I wish some people would see how successful the "Baby Signs" programs are because they use ASL. Get this, it is hearing parents bringing their hearing babies in to this program. It's amazing how wee babies communicate with their parents using ASL. This strengthens the bond between parents and babies. Parents are able to communicate with their babies way before the voice boxes develop as they can learn to sign "milk, cookie, finish, eat, sleep" and the Baby Signs program teaches how to communicate with your babies.

02-11-2009, 08:42 AM	#283 (permalink)
Byrdie714 Banned Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 8,941	Denying a deaf/CI/hoh child the basic skills of ASL--couldn't that be misconstrued as child abuse/neglect?

02-11-2009, 08:48 AM	#285 (permalink)
Byrdie714 Banned Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 8,941	And isn't that the river in Egypt?

02-11-2009, 08:49 AM	#286 (permalink)
Frisky Feline Registered User Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 20,237	i have seen other hearing parents teaching their hearing kids in my kids daycare couple of years ago. The moms feel that hearing babies need to learn ASL for a few reason. The first reason that they would able to communicate with babies in signing. They even told me that they hope kids would use ASL to grow their wide varies of languages included foreign languages to know how to accept languages with no problem much later. I was just making a statement about how amazing is ASL impacts on babies minds work.

02-11-2009, 09:00 AM	#290 (permalink)
Daredevel7 Adrenaline Junky Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Huntsville, AL Posts: 4,341	I'm sorry but I don't think teaching hearing babies ASL is quite the same as teaching deaf babies ASL if you plan on teaching both English later... hearing babies CAN process English auditorally, right?

02-11-2009, 09:21 AM	#299 (permalink)
Mrs Bucket Registered User Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 3,941	FF, Yes, it is important that kids are given languages to learn from. Miz FF, Mr.Mosey here.. I mizzed yew dis merning! Yew not rub maw belly.