I am against oralism because.... - Page 3

jasin · 07-08-2008, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedFox

Where in that video or in other NAD materials does it say hearing people can't use ASL except for the purposes you've listed? Hearing people using ASL with other hearing people can encourage ASL to spread and be known about by more people.

And in this statement you just suggested that Asl is not the language of the deaf.

Tousi · 07-08-2008, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasin

And in this statement you just suggested that Asl is not the language of the deaf.

No, she didn't; you stated that ASL is ONLY for the deaf which, of course, is preposterous. Can't you think of even one measly reason why hearing folk can't?

jillio · 07-08-2008, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tousi

No, she didn't; you stated that ASL is ONLY for the deaf which, of course, is preposterous. Can't you think of even one measly reason why hearing folk can't?

The absurdity is getting to be laughable!

RedFox · 07-08-2008, 11:39 PM

ASL is open to everyone. After all, it stands for American Sign Language, not American Deaf Sign Language.

I can think of a good use for signed languages for hearing people to use between themselves. What if one of them had a cold, sore throat or some other condition that made them hoarse or otherwise made it hard to speak? If they happened to know a signed language, they'd still be able to communicate in places that don't have paper or computers. I wonder what the oralists would think of that.

Another use would be to communicate over long distances like between floors at an atrium without yelling. A really cool use would be to give signed tours of coral reefs on scuba dives.

Check out this page for examples of sign language usage by hearing people. Take that oralists!

Tousi · 07-09-2008, 12:01 AM

The first groups of hearing folks I can think of off the top of my head are parents, of course; then relatives, friends, neighbors, interpreters, education professionals, and just about anyone else who cares to take up ASL....except, of course, those who only wanna know the dirty signs.

Cheri · 07-09-2008, 12:03 AM

I feel so bad for jasin, He has been attacked right and left on many threads already.

Tousi · 07-09-2008, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheri

I feel so bad for jasin, He has been attacked right and left on many threads already.

Can you see why, Cheri?

jillio · 07-09-2008, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheri

I feel so bad for jasin, He has been attacked right and left on many threads already.

Do you mean the responses he got after attacking the deaf community, hearing people, and terps?

deafdyke · 07-09-2008, 12:05 AM

RedFox, in addition some hearing people use ASL as a second language due to disabilites like apraxia or tracheostomies. Note. I am not speaking of the MR/autistic people who use a handful of signs for augmentive communication purposes.

RedFox · 07-09-2008, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tousi

The first groups of hearing folks I can think of off the top of my head are parents, of course; then relatives, friends, neighbors, interpreters, education professionals, and just about anyone else who cares to take up ASL....except, of course, those who only wanna know the dirty signs.

Sure, the guy living in the house I'm moving to wants to learn some sign and learned a bit from a friend who knew a bit from a project. There, that's 2 hearing people using sign language with no deaf people around because I haven't moved there yet. The world didn't end.

There are people at my work who want to learn some signs too, so I'll teach them sometimes. I won't mind if hearing people signed to each other. It'd be good practice.

Allowing and encouraging hearing people to use sign languages with each other means less influence for the oral-only camp.

Bottesini · 07-09-2008, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheri

I feel so bad for jasin, He has been attacked right and left on many threads already.

Me too. I was also really angry when I was young. And I pretty much grew up ok. I hope.

jasin · 07-09-2008, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheri

I feel so bad for jasin, He has been attacked right and left on many threads already.

That was the first nice thing anyone on here has said to me

Thanks Cheri

Tousi · 07-09-2008, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bottesini

Me too. I was also really angry when I was young. And I pretty much grew up ok. I hope.

Ok, I'll say this (provided you have seen all of his entries across the board); it's okay to feel bad for him as long as you know he basically had it coming to him; I, for one, was "easy" on him.

jillio · 07-09-2008, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tousi

Ok, I'll say this (provided you have seen all of his entries across the board); it's okay to feel bad for him as long as you know he basically had it coming to him; I, for one, was "easy" on him.

As was I, believe it or not.

jillio · 07-09-2008, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedFox

Sure, the guy living in the house I'm moving to wants to learn some sign and learned a bit from a friend who knew a bit from a project. There, that's 2 hearing people using sign language with no deaf people around because I haven't moved there yet. The world didn't end.

There are people at my work who want to learn some signs too, so I'll teach them sometimes. I won't mind if hearing people signed to each other. It'd be good practice.

Allowing and encouraging hearing people to use sign languages with each other means less influence for the oral-only camp.

Absolutely.

Bottesini · 07-09-2008, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tousi

Ok, I'll say this (provided you have seen all of his entries across the board); it's okay to feel bad for him as long as you know he basically had it coming to him; I, for one, was "easy" on him.

I have really bad social skills. Sometimes I just hope people will cut me a little slack and forgive me if I am at my worst.
I am not always nice either. But I am working at it day by day. Sometimes when you get angry, it is hard to stop yourself. I know you guys are just trying to make him see a different view too.

Cheri · 07-09-2008, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tousi

Can you see why, Cheri?

Just because he says the wrong things, it was unnecessary to have five or six members ganging up on him like that. I just felt bad for the dude.

RedFox · 07-09-2008, 12:14 AM

Wow, the quote from this page is interesting. I wonder how that sign language developed and what the oralists think of it. If the oralists were around back then, they might've tried to make them use a spoken language. But that might be hard if the spoken languages had some sounds that they didn't share, like the English 'th' sound that many other languages don't have.

Quote:

A pidgin sign language arose among tribes of American Indians in the Great Plains region of North America (see Plains Indian Sign Language). It was used to communicate among tribes with different spoken languages. There are especially users today among the Crow, Cheyenne, and Arapaho. Unlike other sign languages developed by hearing people, it shares the spatial grammar of deaf sign languages.

I've seen some books about this sign language. I bet the oralists banned such books from the oral only schools.

jillio · 07-09-2008, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheri

Just because he says the wrong things, it was unnecessary to have five or six members ganging up on him like that. I just felt bad for the dude.

So, it's okay to be insulting, but not okay to defend oneself or one's profession?

***Jolie77*** · 07-09-2008, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedFox

ASL is open to everyone. After all, it stands for American Sign Language, not American Deaf Sign Language.

I can think of a good use for signed languages for hearing people to use between themselves. What if one of them had a cold, sore throat or some other condition that made them hoarse or otherwise made it hard to speak? If they happened to know a signed language, they'd still be able to communicate in places that don't have paper or computers. I wonder what the oralists would think of that.

Another use would be to communicate over long distances like between floors at an atrium without yelling. A really cool use would be to give signed tours of coral reefs on scuba dives.

Check out this page for examples of sign language usage by hearing people. Take that oralists!

I couldn't agree more to what you said. Also the great thing about ASL is, it is a visible language.

You know, In another thread it was talking about the greatest irony of deaf babies that are focused on AVT and hearing babies are focused with learning the sign language. That came to got me to think that the other thread applies to this thread in a way because even hearing babies are learning sign language, the hearing parents are also learning it too so which means it is for everyone to use but yes, ASL still will always be original to the deaf community.

So, how would oralism work for the deaf parents if the situation would be reversed? It may be possible but difficult. Just imagine how the scenario would be reversed? I don't see how oralism would work for most of us anyhow.

jillio · 07-09-2008, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedFox

Wow, the quote from this page is interesting. I wonder how that sign language developed and what the oralists think of it. If the oralists were around back then, they might've tried to make them use a spoken language. But that might be hard if the spoken languages had some sounds that they didn't share, like the English 'th' sound that many other languages don't have.

I've seen some books about this sign language. I bet the oralists banned such books from the oral only schools.

I'm sure they did. Just like they forbid the Native Americans from using their own languages in the mission schools.

jasin · 07-09-2008, 12:19 AM

That website you gave has a bunch of supposed sign languages that are not even real languages. Home signs are gestures not a language, pigeon sign is made up, I could go on and on.

Its a bit insulting to the deaf to equate made up gestures with an actual language, the languages of the deaf, like ASl.

Oh, and besides, wikipedia has never been creditable as anyone can edit it with any type of information they wish. They have actually done research on the wikipedia site and found that it has more errors and mistakes then it does fact.

jasin · 07-09-2008, 12:19 AM

Take care, God Bless

jillio · 07-09-2008, 12:22 AM

Actually, pidgin languages are naturally evolved, not made up, and are considered viable by linguists. And all signs were made up at some point. There has to be a first time a sign was ever used as a symbol. That is how languages evolve. Same with words. All words originated somewhere, all signs origninated somewhere.

Tousi · 07-09-2008, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheri

Just because he says the wrong things, it was unnecessary to have five or six members ganging up on him like that. I just felt bad for the dude.

I, independently of anyone else, started out soft-pedaling so he should have grabbed that lifeline/hint to be civil. Others, too, responded individually so it wasn't a "gang". Why didn't you come in each of those places where he was "saying the wrong" things and help him/us out?

Tousi · 07-09-2008, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedFox

Sure, the guy living in the house I'm moving to wants to learn some sign and learned a bit from a friend who knew a bit from a project. There, that's 2 hearing people using sign language with no deaf people around because I haven't moved there yet. The world didn't end.

There are people at my work who want to learn some signs too, so I'll teach them sometimes. I won't mind if hearing people signed to each other. It'd be good practice.

Allowing and encouraging hearing people to use sign languages with each other means less influence for the oral-only camp.

Yup, I agree, literally anyone and everyone except the ones who only wanna know the naughty stuff, lol.....

RedFox · 07-09-2008, 12:26 AM

You could look at the sources listed on the bottom of the Wikipedia pages if you don't trust the text on the page.

Buffalo · 07-09-2008, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedFox

ASL is open to everyone. After all, it stands for American Sign Language, not American Deaf Sign Language.

I can think of a good use for signed languages for hearing people to use between themselves. What if one of them had a cold, sore throat or some other condition that made them hoarse or otherwise made it hard to speak? If they happened to know a signed language, they'd still be able to communicate in places that don't have paper or computers. I wonder what the oralists would think of that.

Another use would be to communicate over long distances like between floors at an atrium without yelling. A really cool use would be to give signed tours of coral reefs on scuba dives.

Check out this

07-09-2008, 12:03 AM	#66 (permalink)
Cheri Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,076	I feel so bad for jasin, He has been attacked right and left on many threads already. __________________

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07-08-2008, 11:39 PM	#64 (permalink)
RedFox Registered User Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Bellows Falls, VT Posts: 1,195	ASL is open to everyone. After all, it stands for American Sign Language, not American Deaf Sign Language. I can think of a good use for signed languages for hearing people to use between themselves. What if one of them had a cold, sore throat or some other condition that made them hoarse or otherwise made it hard to speak? If they happened to know a signed language, they'd still be able to communicate in places that don't have paper or computers. I wonder what the oralists would think of that. Another use would be to communicate over long distances like between floors at an atrium without yelling. A really cool use would be to give signed tours of coral reefs on scuba dives. Check out this page for examples of sign language usage by hearing people. Take that oralists!

07-09-2008, 12:01 AM	#65 (permalink)
Tousi Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 8,249	The first groups of hearing folks I can think of off the top of my head are parents, of course; then relatives, friends, neighbors, interpreters, education professionals, and just about anyone else who cares to take up ASL....except, of course, those who only wanna know the dirty signs.

07-09-2008, 12:05 AM	#69 (permalink)
deafdyke So NOT a Princess! Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Trebekistan Posts: 6,685	RedFox, in addition some hearing people use ASL as a second language due to disabilites like apraxia or tracheostomies. Note. I am not speaking of the MR/autistic people who use a handful of signs for augmentive communication purposes.

07-09-2008, 12:19 AM	#82 (permalink)
jasin Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Puyallup, Washington Posts: 779	That website you gave has a bunch of supposed sign languages that are not even real languages. Home signs are gestures not a language, pigeon sign is made up, I could go on and on. Its a bit insulting to the deaf to equate made up gestures with an actual language, the languages of the deaf, like ASl. Oh, and besides, wikipedia has never been creditable as anyone can edit it with any type of information they wish. They have actually done research on the wikipedia site and found that it has more errors and mistakes then it does fact.

07-09-2008, 12:19 AM	#83 (permalink)
jasin Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Puyallup, Washington Posts: 779	Take care, God Bless

07-09-2008, 12:22 AM	#84 (permalink)
jillio Banned Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,197	Actually, pidgin languages are naturally evolved, not made up, and are considered viable by linguists. And all signs were made up at some point. There has to be a first time a sign was ever used as a symbol. That is how languages evolve. Same with words. All words originated somewhere, all signs origninated somewhere.

07-09-2008, 12:26 AM	#87 (permalink)
RedFox Registered User Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Bellows Falls, VT Posts: 1,195	You could look at the sources listed on the bottom of the Wikipedia pages if you don't trust the text on the page.