Cued Speech: your opinion? - Page 2

jillio · 04-26-2008, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

But it only works in conjunction with spoken language. In my experience the parents who "cue" believe that it is a bridge to spoken language. They believe that some day they will be able to stop using CS and have the children function using only listening and speechreading.

Exactly. It is a tool to promote oralism. It could be used as a tool in teaching English for literacy, although there is no evidence that it actually increases literacy rates. It could also be used in conjunction with ASL, as loml as pointed out. But could be and is are two different situations. The fact of the matter is, CS is not used along with ASL in the academic or the social setting. It is used instead of. Just as oral language only is used instead of ASL and English as in a bi-bi atmposphere.

shel90 · 04-26-2008, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faire_jour

But it only works in conjunction with spoken language. In my experience the parents who "cue" believe that it is a bridge to spoken language. They believe that some day they will be able to stop using CS and have the children function using only listening and speechreading.

One of the teachers used to work for a CS program..she said that so many of the parents eventually stopped cueing with their children due to their children not developing oral skills like they expected.

jillio · 04-26-2008, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

One of the teachers used to work for a CS program..she said that so many of the parents eventually stopped cueing with their children due to their children not developing oral skills like they expected.

I guess that's one of the reasons, that after a 40 year history of CS, we are still not seeing evidence of success other than in a few anecdotal reports.

Anij · 05-05-2008, 11:00 AM

I'm hh/d and use ASL(&PSE) as well as spoken&written English, and remember a little French from my school days.

(I was born with SSD & chronic ear infections on my H side - I later started losing my hearing on the "hearing side" - as a result I was able to mostly understand speech most of the time during my language acquisition years, making it easier for me to learn most of the sounds of English, although I still have issues with the language, thank heaven's for computer spell check !!)

I'm currently debating learning CS - not to replace anything, but to facilitate learning Latin and Hebrew which will likely be required for my M.Div.

The issue here is - I use ASL/English interpreters in class - however if words and sentences are being spoken in Hebrew, how do we communicate what they sound/or even spell like to me so I can repeat them back ?

rockdrummer · 05-05-2008, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chase

I'm very distracted by cued speech when trying to speech-read. What I'm finally able to do is focus so hard on the lips that the cued speech, as well as the benefits of speech-reading, go away and I concentrate only on the lips. Of course, I sometimes have to do this with some people.

My turn to "huh?" I'm probably reading this wrong, but if the person speaking doesn't CS while speaking, then how is the speech-reader supposed to be aided (which so far I'm not)? Maybe my problem with CS is the samples I saw of speech-reading were not done correctly.

ok.. I am not good at making myself clear sometimes. What I am trying to say is that I think once a person becomes proficient at CS they understand mouth movements and the phonetics associated with them thus allowing for ease of lipreading. I hope that makes sense

Cheri · 05-05-2008, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chase

I'm very distracted by cued speech when trying to speech-read. What I'm finally able to do is focus so hard on the lips that the cued speech, as well as the benefits of speech-reading, go away and I concentrate only on the lips. Of course, I sometimes have to do this with some people.

Interesting, I only remembered I got distracted when I had to understand the 8 handshapes at the begin it was hard because it takes time and practice to understand the 8 handshapes with cued speech. It's like get ur hands away from ur mouth, I can't read your lips.

Chase · 05-05-2008, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockdrummer

What I am trying to say is that I think once a person becomes proficient at CS they understand mouth movements and the phonetics associated with them thus allowing for ease of lipreading.

Drummer, I figured you must mean something like that. Ha ha ha, I'm always writing something that makes perfect sense at the time, but when I go back I'm always: "What was I thinking?" Sometimes there's no clue.

Cued speech: Recently I was trying to follow the speech of a librarian who kept touching a finger, sometimes two or three, to at the corner of his mouth. I finally asked, "Are you cueing?" He thought I said "chewing," and admitted he was adjusting nicotine gum to stop smoking. It was hilarious untangling and explaining misconceptions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheri

It's like get ur hands away from ur mouth, I can't read your lips.

Me, too, Cheri. Did you stick with the cueing or have to give it up?

Cheri · 05-05-2008, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chase

Me, too, Cheri. Did you stick with the cueing or have to give it up?

My dad took us out because it wasn't working for us, so he put us in oral program, that wasn't easy either, because the some teachers intend to talk to the board, it's like "Hello?"

InnocentOdion · 05-05-2008, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheri

My dad took us out because it wasn't working for us, so he put us in oral program, that wasn't easy either, because the some teachers intend to talk to the board, it's like "Hello?"

Lol! One of my uni teachers does that. I told her "Don't move around too much, because though I'm not deaf, I do have to lipread. Especially you, because you're like, the quietest teacher ever."

So she tries for half an hour, then whizzes around the room after that (and dances!). So I didn't continue going to her lessons, because let's face it; why go to not understand what's being said? I'm glad I did exact same lesson last year, otherwise I'd be so stressed with it!

rockdrummer · 05-06-2008, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chase

Drummer, I figured you must mean something like that. Ha ha ha, I'm always writing something that makes perfect sense at the time, but when I go back I'm always: "What was I thinking?" Sometimes there's no clue.

yeah me too. Sometimes I write stuff down and go back only to discover that I had no clue what I was writing or for what reason. That piece of paper ends up in the circular file.

jillio · 05-06-2008, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockdrummer

yeah me too. Sometimes I write stuff down and go back only to discover that I had no clue what I was writing or for what reason. That piece of paper ends up in the circular file.

Thanks for clarifying, RD. I was a bit confused, too. I know what you mean....I will run across notes I have scribbled to myself, only to think, "What does this say and why the hell did I write it down?" LOL.

Chase, your encounter with the librarian is too funny!

deafbajagal · 05-09-2008, 10:18 PM

Don't throw rotten tomatoes at me for my opinion

. My humble opinion is that there needs to be more research on this modality. Also I think there is a huge misconception about what cue speech is. Some who are in the oral group seems to feel that cueing has too much gesturing and sign-like movements that it can't be truly "oral"; those who are in the signing group feel that cueing is too oral-like (with the phonical focus on spoken English). I learned cue speech in case I met someone who use cueing exclusively - I wanted to be able to communicate with that person. But in reality, cueing is supposed to be (in my opinion, again) used as a tool for teaching literacy (such as spelling, sounding out words for reading, etc.). I don't think it was meant to be used teach speech or to be used as a communcation modality. An example of a reading program (intended for deaf and hard of hearing students) that could be used with cue speech is the Stevenson Reading Program. I would seriously consider using cueing with this reading program to see if it would benefiit my students...but only as a tool for teaching decoding skills.

shel90 · 05-09-2008, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafbajagal

Don't throw rotten tomatoes at me for my opinion

. My humble opinion is that there needs to be more research on this modality. Also I think there is a huge misconception about what cue speech is. Some who are in the oral group seems to feel that cueing has too much gesturing and sign-like movements that it can't be truly "oral"; those who are in the signing group feel that cueing is too oral-like (with the phonical focus on spoken English). I learned cue speech in case I met someone who use cueing exclusively - I wanted to be able to communicate with that person. But in reality, cueing is supposed to be (in my opinion, again) used as a tool for teaching literacy (such as spelling, sounding out words for reading, etc.). I don't think it was meant to be used teach speech or to be used as a communcation modality. An example of a reading program (intended for deaf and hard of hearing students) that could be used with cue speech is the Stevenson Reading Program. I would seriously consider using cueing with this reading program to see if it would benefiit my students...but only as a tool for teaching decoding skills.

Before I joined AD, I always thought people saw and used CS as a teaching tool. When I read several threads about it being used for language development, I was shocked. It makes me nervous taking that risk because I believe that pure models of languages should be used during the language development stages. That's just my belief.

loml · 05-10-2008, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafbajagal

.....But in reality, cueing is supposed to be (in my opinion, again) used as a tool for teaching literacy (such as spelling, sounding out words for reading, etc.). I don't think it was meant to be used teach speech or to be used as a communcation modality. An example of a reading program (intended for deaf and hard of hearing students) that could be used with cue speech is the Stevenson Reading Program. I would seriously consider using cueing with this reading program to see if it would benefiit my students...but only as a tool for teaching decoding skills.

deafbajagal - Well said. Using CS for literacy, can make CS a communication modality: a communication system in language of the family.

In my area it is used in conjunction with the Edmark program, Laurette and the Early Reading Intervention program. We also use it for communication, and as a method to aide with some hearing children who have stuttering issues, as they can learn to slow down their speech. We have found that it is successful with some children who have Autism and Down Syndrome, sometimes with PECS or not, depending on the needs of the child.

The sky is the limit!

shel90 · 05-10-2008, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loml

deafbajagal - Well said. Using CS for literacy, can make CS a communication modality: a communication system in language of the family.

In my area it is used in conjunction with the Edmark program, Laurette and the Early Reading Intervention program. We also use it for communication, and as a method to aide with some hearing children who have stuttering issues, as they can learn to slow down their speech. We have found that it is successful with some children who have Autism and Down Syndrome, sometimes with PECS or not, depending on the needs of the child.

The sky is the limit!

My school just started using the Edmark program since Fall..oh WOW! It is so exciting!

jillio · 05-10-2008, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loml

deafbajagal - Well said. Using CS for literacy, can make CS a communication modality: a communication system in language of the family.

In my area it is used in conjunction with the Edmark program, Laurette and the Early Reading Intervention program. We also use it for communication, and as a method to aide with some hearing children who have stuttering issues, as they can learn to slow down their speech. We have found that it is successful with some children who have Autism and Down Syndrome, sometimes with PECS or not, depending on the needs of the child.

The sky is the limit!

I believe she said as a teaching tool for literacy, not as a communication mode. Do you have anything other than anecdote to indicate CS's effectiveness with Downs Syndrome and Autisic children? I agree with deafbajagal...there needs to be empirical evidence via valid research. And with shel, in that a whole language approach has been supported empirically.

Oceanbreeze · 05-10-2008, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deafskeptic

Ha, ha, I fourth that.

Make that five!

I see it as a good literary tool, but I don't see how it can promote language aquisition in the deaf child. Wouldn't you need a strong foundation in a language first before you can effectively use cued speech? By my logic, that answer would be yes!

loml · 05-10-2008, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oceanbreeze

Wouldn't you need a strong foundation in a language first before you can effectively use cued speech?

Oceanbreeze - No, why do you think that? Can you expand on your logic for me please.

For example, spoken English, consists of consonants (phonemes) and vowels (phonemes)strung together. When a child is cued to, he/she is basically "seeing the sound of the spoken language" (for simplification purposes). Cueing is done simultaneously with lip movement(please note that this does not have to actually be voiced) and the hand shapes(for consonants) along with the hand placements (for vowels - of which in English the mouth makes 3 distinct shapes), teaches the child English through the system of Cued Speech.

I am not versed in what processes occur in the brain to explain to you exactly how this happens. What I can share with you is my experiences.

Thankcue.

loml · 05-10-2008, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shel90

My school just started using the Edmark program since Fall..oh WOW! It is so exciting!

shel90 - It has been a succesful system here. I also like the computer versions of Edmark and the Laurette program.

Oceanbreeze · 05-10-2008, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loml

Oceanbreeze - No, why do you think that? Can you expand on your logic for me please.

For example, spoken English, consists of consonants (phonemes) and vowels (phonemes)strung together. When a child is cued to, he/she is basically "seeing the sound of the spoken language" (for simplification purposes). Cueing is done simultaneously with lip movement(please note that this does not have to actually be voiced) and the hand shapes(for consonants) along with the hand placements (for vowels - of which in English the mouth makes 3 distinct shapes), teaches the child English through the system of Cued Speech.

I am not versed in what processes occur in the brain to explain to you exactly how this happens. What I can share with you is my experiences.

Thankcue.

What you are advocating, though, is a visual model of English. What if the child has no language at all? I fail to see how you can teach them cueing when they don't have a grasp of a language; any language. In my mind, you'd first have to teach them a language, and then, expand upon that by teaching them cueing.

shel90 · 05-10-2008, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loml

shel90 - It has been a succesful system here. I also like the computer versions of Edmark and the Laurette program.

Already in 3 classes (the younger elementary years), all of the kids' reading levels have been brought up to their age appropriate levels. One boy is now reading at one grade level above..it is great and exciting! Yes, I agree with u that it is successful with our program and I cant wait to see what happens in the future with it.

loml · 05-10-2008, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oceanbreeze

What you are advocating, though, is a visual model of English. What if the child has no language at all? I fail to see how you can teach them cueing when they don't have a grasp of a language; any language. In my mind, you'd first have to teach them a language, and then, expand upon that by teaching them cueing.

Oceanbreeze - Cued Speech is a visual representaion of the sounds of the language. A child does not need to have language first prior to experiencing and learning/acquiring language through cueing. The sounds are provided rythmically, as in regular speech (conversational) patterns.

You are building phoneme with phoneme, which is how hearing children learn/acquire language. They do not know English prior to hearing it and yet they learn/acquire the English language.

Cueing can/is used for second language learners, hearing or deaf.

05-09-2008, 10:18 PM	#42 (permalink)
deafbajagal Jasmine's Tiger "Lilly" Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: USA Posts: 1,560	Don't throw rotten tomatoes at me for my opinion . My humble opinion is that there needs to be more research on this modality. Also I think there is a huge misconception about what cue speech is. Some who are in the oral group seems to feel that cueing has too much gesturing and sign-like movements that it can't be truly "oral"; those who are in the signing group feel that cueing is too oral-like (with the phonical focus on spoken English). I learned cue speech in case I met someone who use cueing exclusively - I wanted to be able to communicate with that person. But in reality, cueing is supposed to be (in my opinion, again) used as a tool for teaching literacy (such as spelling, sounding out words for reading, etc.). I don't think it was meant to be used teach speech or to be used as a communcation modality. An example of a reading program (intended for deaf and hard of hearing students) that could be used with cue speech is the Stevenson Reading Program. I would seriously consider using cueing with this reading program to see if it would benefiit my students...but only as a tool for teaching decoding skills. __________________ "The mediocre teacher tells. The good teacher explains. The superior teacher demonstrates. The great teacher inspires." ~Quote by William Arthur Ward

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05-05-2008, 11:00 AM	#34 (permalink)
Anij Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Canada Posts: 307	I'm hh/d and use ASL(&PSE) as well as spoken&written English, and remember a little French from my school days. (I was born with SSD & chronic ear infections on my H side - I later started losing my hearing on the "hearing side" - as a result I was able to mostly understand speech most of the time during my language acquisition years, making it easier for me to learn most of the sounds of English, although I still have issues with the language, thank heaven's for computer spell check !!) I'm currently debating learning CS - not to replace anything, but to facilitate learning Latin and Hebrew which will likely be required for my M.Div. The issue here is - I use ASL/English interpreters in class - however if words and sentences are being spoken in Hebrew, how do we communicate what they sound/or even spell like to me so I can repeat them back ?